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[Get Real!]

No one among the GC society, who is suspected to have been engaged in criminal acts against TCs, is treated as a hero!

I have to disagree with you on this one Kifeas...

I am aware that those GCs that had committed the atrocities in Aloa-Maratha and Tochni are known to TCs -even by names, mainly because they were originating from the same or nearby villages of those TC victims. Why haven't those TCs, who happen to know something, did not come up all these years to make statements to the police or the attorney general, and open cases against them?

Could it be that,judging by their past experiences they don't trust your justice system?

Whom do you know to have committed such atrocities, and at the same time is treated as a hero? I know that those engaged in the Aloa-Maratha massacre are 3-4 nationalist (Eoka b') gangsters from the nearby village of Peristeronopygi, and these was asserted by TCs who either survived or saw the victims been taken hostages by them. These people and I happen to have asked about them from other people of the same village and nearby villages that I came across, and what I heard is that they do not speak to anybody, they do live a very low profile life and have very few friends, and seem to be afraid of their shadow. Exactly the same holds true for 3 individuals from Tochni who are also alleged to have been the ones committed the massacre. Nothing like been treated or regarded as heroes, or act themselves as such! Of course, without formal testimony and evidence from the TCs who happen to know by fact or have such evidence against those individuals, I wouldn't expect the police to start a formal investigation on the basis of mere rumors. They would need more concrete evidence to prosecute anyone for such a type of crimes, and the only ones in position to provide it are those TC that had been affected (had relatives, family, friends among the victims) and who also know facts. I know there are TCs who have such evidence.

Many right-wing DISY kafenedes still have a few old-school regulars who if given the chance would no doubt repeat the same shit all over again, just as there are TMT veterans who probably feel the same. Mosphiloti became the refuge of many of these characters so pay a visit to their DISY kafenes to see what’s left of them.

[Paphitis]

Is that what your administration does on behalf of the "RoC" for the GCs who have committed war crimes against the TCs or is there not a single GC to be charged for committing a crime against a TC?

The RoC Government certainly would not do such a thing.

And yes, there were some GC fanatical members of EOKA B who did commit crimes against TCs in certain villages such as Tochni. I firmly believe that most GCs would love for these individuals to face the legal system. I doubt whether you could charge them for war crimes as the individuals who did these crimes were not CNG but were individuals who did not act on behalf of the RoC. However, I am sure that other charges such as mass murder could quite easily fit the bill, and I for one would like to see justice catch up with these people if possible.

I am asking because I am not aware of any GC who has been charged, let alone indicted, for committing a crime against a TC by the currently recognized "RoC".

As Kifeas said in a previous post, the TCs should cooperate and offer as much information as possible on WHO exactly was responsible for these murders. If this happens, I am sure that the RoC would have no other choice but to prosecute these people. Don't kid yourself by thinking that GCs have any respect for EOKA B. Nearly all of us are disgusted at what they did, such as their involvement in assisting the Greek Junta, and also killing innocent TCs.

Should not a government claiming letigimacy on all levels have until now launched investigations, lawsuits, prosecutions, for the murders of hundreds of its TC citizens who have also been robbed and displaced before any foreign troops were here other than Greece`s?

Now I am not certain whether the RoC has done any investigation or not, however identifying those responsible for these atrocities is not as easy as you may think. For example, EOKA B probably had hundreds of active members, but only a fraction of them would have committed the crime of killing TCs. The issue is identifying these individuals beyond any doubt. As I understand it, from Kifeas earlier post, the TCs are possibly able to identify the murderers as they were from surrounding villages, and as a result the TCs in that area were familiar with them already. The TCs need to offer any information they have, and the sooner the better.

The same thing would apply with the TMT, who also killed many innocent GCs. Are you willing to hand over any TMT members who murdered hundreds of GCs and evicted over 3,000 Armenians from Nicosia?

Especially when all these crimes are well-documented in numerous official U.N. records. Is it a war crime to kill a GC but simply a non-entity to kill, sack or displace a TC?

Crimes were committed from both sides. And as I said earlier, these people need to be punished. But the TMT was also just as fierce and were even the first to provoke hostilities so that they could further their TAKSIM cause. They evicted over 3,000 Armenians being just one example of a crime that needs to be addressed.

I hope that this clown Olgac`s case is scrutinized to the death and if found guilty he be punished to the fullest extent possible. No man deserves mercy let alone sympathy for killing an unarmed surrendered 19 year old kid.

Thank you very much. I also hope he faces some justice. But I am more interested in his Commanding Officer, as I truly believe it is he that is the war criminal and not so much Olgac. In fact, it appears that Olgac does have some kind of conscious and that he now carries a heavy burden and guilt in life, which has resulted in his cofessions on Turkish TV and at the Greek Embassy in Izmir 19 years ago.

It is also important for any TCs to step forward and offer any information they have about any EOKA B fanatics that were involved in any crimes against TCs, particularly about the events in 74 and those 65 TCs murdered in Sandalar and Tochni etc.

[insan]

Whether they r true or fake, such cases r very useful to get the full attention of whole world on Cyprus and has the solution process of the problem gain max speed.

[Oracle]

By such logic insan, you will be telling us next; it's great the Turks killed so many, stole so much, violated so many resolutions because "no publicity is bad publicity"

Still this unfortunate 19 y.o. boy was clearly heroic in his last actions ....

[insan]

By such logic insan, you will be telling us next; it's great the Turks killed so many, stole so much, violated so many resolutions because "no publicity is bad publicity"

Still this unfortunate 19 y.o. boy was clearly heroic in his last actions ....

irrelevant, dear. All ur "next" predictions r irrelevant, prejudiced, self-centered.

As to the boy, what can i say? I congratulate him and wish all others also appear and tell us all what they know abt the darkside of the story. I also would like to see justice fulfill for all. Wish it prevails for all, asap.

[Murataga]

Is that what your administration does on behalf of the "RoC" for the GCs who have committed war crimes against the TCs or is there not a single GC to be charged for committing a crime against a TC?

The RoC Government certainly would not do such a thing.

Do you know that as a fact? If so by all means share your evidence with us. What is known as a fact on the other hand is that hundreds of TCs have been murdered, thousands of TCs have been displaced, thousands of TCs have been sacked, all of this happened before 1974, all of this is documented in U.N. records, and what you claim to be "RoC" has not charged a single GC for 46 years for any crime against a TC while all the time claiming to be the rightful government of the TCs and while all these attrocities were being committed against the TCs.

What is known as a fact, for example, is that Clerides is on the record in U.N. documents for denying TC MPs access to their seats and nullifying their government positions, including the vice-president, because they would not agree to vote as Clerides ordered them to. I know for a fact that he has not been prosecuted for this and I know for a fact that he was elected "President". So, explain to me why you conclude that "RoC Government certainly would not do such a thing"? Is doing "such a thing" any less ridiculos than what we know for a fact that "it" has already done (or not done)?

And yes, there were some GC fanatical members of EOKA B who did commit crimes against TCs in certain villages such as Tochni. I firmly believe that most GCs would love for these individuals to face the legal system. I doubt whether you could charge them for war crimes as the individuals who did these crimes were not CNG but were individuals who did not act on behalf of the RoC. However, I am sure that other charges such as mass murder could quite easily fit the bill, and I for one would like to see justice catch up with these people if possible.

The "CNG" is an establishment in complete contravention to the constitution of the RoC. It was established and operates as part of a "doctrine of necessity". A doctrine which was adopted in the absence of TCs MPs (because they were prevented from attending their seats by force), a doctrine which allowed upholding "official" resolutions stating that the objective of the RoC is ENOSIS. These are facts.

I am asking because I am not aware of any GC who has been charged, let alone indicted, for committing a crime against a TC by the currently recognized "RoC".

As Kifeas said in a previous post, the TCs should cooperate and offer as much information as possible on WHO exactly was responsible for these murders. If this happens, I am sure that the RoC would have no other choice but to prosecute these people. Don't kid yourself by thinking that GCs have any respect for EOKA B. Nearly all of us are disgusted at what they did, such as their involvement in assisting the Greek Junta, and also killing innocent TCs.

Do you know any investigation, lawsuit, prosecution that has been launched by the "RoC" to find guilty parties who have committed crime against the TCs in which TCs have not cooperated? Better yet, do you know any investigation, lawsuit, prosecution that has been launched by the "RoC" to find guilty parties who have committed crime against the TCs?

Do you think the responsibility of a government is limited to being "disgusted" towards crimes committed against its constituents?

Should not a government claiming letigimacy on all levels have until now launched investigations, lawsuits, prosecutions, for the murders of hundreds of its TC citizens who have also been robbed and displaced before any foreign troops were here other than Greece`s?

Now I am not certain whether the RoC has done any investigation or not, however identifying those responsible for these atrocities is not as easy as you may think. For example, EOKA B probably had hundreds of active members, but only a fraction of them would have committed the crime of killing TCs. The issue is identifying these individuals beyond any doubt. As I understand it, from Kifeas earlier post, the TCs are possibly able to identify the murderers as they were from surrounding villages, and as a result the TCs in that area were familiar with them already. The TCs need to offer any information they have, and the sooner the better.

The same thing would apply with the TMT, who also killed many innocent GCs. Are you willing to hand over any TMT members who murdered hundreds of GCs and evicted over 3,000 Armenians from Nicosia?

My argument is not about difficulty, it is about responsibility. The TRNC does not owe you anything. You do not recognize them, they do not claim to be your government, they do not claim to be reponsible for the GCs, they do not claim to represent the GCs and you are enemies. On the other hand the "RoC" is claiming sovereignity and representation over all the people of this island and by doing so bares itself with responsibility towrds its TC citizens. So, it is, naturally, the responsibility and the duty of this "RoC" to find out who murdered and sacked its TC constituents. This "RoC", seems to me, is reaping all the awards of being the government of TCs; don`t you think it should own up to its responsibilities?

Especially when all these crimes are well-documented in numerous official U.N. records. Is it a war crime to kill a GC but simply a non-entity to kill, sack or displace a TC?

Crimes were committed from both sides. And as I said earlier, these people need to be punished. But the TMT was also just as fierce and were even the first to provoke hostilities so that they could further their TAKSIM cause. They evicted over 3,000 Armenians being just one example of a crime that needs to be addressed.

See above.

I hope that this clown Olgac`s case is scrutinized to the death and if found guilty he be punished to the fullest extent possible. No man deserves mercy let alone sympathy for killing an unarmed surrendered 19 year old kid.

Thank you very much. I also hope he faces some justice. But I am more interested in his Commanding Officer, as I truly believe it is he that is the war criminal and not so much Olgac. In fact, it appears that Olgac does have some kind of conscious and that he now carries a heavy burden and guilt in life, which has resulted in his cofessions on Turkish TV and at the Greek Embassy in Izmir 19 years ago.

My statement was not made to receive your gratitude. As far as I am concerned, the story of a self-admitted Greek agent spying in Turkey coming out at this juncture with this plot is no more credible than Bush claiming that Putin is applying for a Green Card.

It is also important for any TCs to step forward and offer any information they have about any EOKA B fanatics that were involved in any crimes against TCs, particularly about the events in 74 and those 65 TCs murdered in Sandalar and Tochni etc.

What is important and frankly 46 years late already is that what you claim to be the "RoC", among many other things, starts putting on trial and punishing those who prevented the attendance of the TCs to the RoC and those who committed crimes against the TCs because this establishment claims to be their government and that it represents them. I assure you that the TCs will have no problem cooperating.

And my question to you as an individual is this: do you not see something wrong in a body you call your government that it has not investigated a single person (let alone charged or indicted) for crime committed against the TCs on such a large scale and witnessed by so many?

[askimwos]

Murataga wrote:

And my question to you as an individual is this: do you not see something wrong in a body you call your government that it has not investigated a single person (let alone charged or indicted) for crime committed against the TCs on such a large scale and witnessed by so many?

Murataga, the answer is simply yes. However, according to the constitutution it is not the government's job to open an investigation but the general attorney's. The government can simply encourage people to come forwrd and offer information.
I personally would like the General Attorney to act at least on the cases where mass graves have been already found.

However, you have to bare in mind that the same people that committed those crimes were the same people that committed similar crimes against GCs both during the 60's but also during the coup in 1974, which were also never investigated for political reasons (see unity, results of occupation, etc).

As I said in an earlier post in another thread, I can understand the reasons why successive RoC administrations have avoided to touch the issue, however, I believe that time has come for these incidents to be thoroughly investigated and the perpetrators to face justice. I believe that this is not just my personal opinion but the opinion and the centiment among the great majority of GCs.

[YFred]

Murataga wrote:

And my question to you as an individual is this: do you not see something wrong in a body you call your government that it has not investigated a single person (let alone charged or indicted) for crime committed against the TCs on such a large scale and witnessed by so many?

Murataga, the answer is simply yes. However, according to the constitutution it is not the government's job to open an investigation but the general attorney's. The government can simply encourage people to come forwrd and offer information.
I personally would like the General Attorney to act at least on the cases where mass graves have been already found.

However, you have to bare in mind that the same people that committed those crimes were the same people that committed similar crimes against GCs both during the 60's but also during the coup in 1974, which were also never investigated for political reasons (see unity, results of occupation, etc).

As I said in an earlier post in another thread, I can understand the reasons why successive RoC administrations have avoided to touch the issue, however, I believe that time has come for these incidents to be thoroughly investigated and the perpetrators to face justice. I believe that this is not just my personal opinion but the opinion and the centiment among the great majority of GCs.

What is more worrying is that these very people are probably in position of power, whether its the media, the Attorney General office or the justice system. Which is probably why they can't be touched.