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prosecutor opens "war crime" inquiry for Atilla Ol

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:38 pm

skipper wrote:
Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
RAFAELLA wrote:

...and it clearly shows the quilt of Tr regarding the fate of 1.619 missing Gcs. Tr doesn't even want to touch that chapter of the history but sooner or later he will have to deal with it.


500+ missing TCs...(larger % in terms of population) Where have u buried them? Prosecute the murderers of these innocent people NOW!!!


Are you conveniently ignoring the fact that Turkish Bombs and Bullets, fired indiscriminately in the overkill invasion, could be responsible for most of these TC casualties?

Whereas a lot of the missing GCs were taken away, last seen alive, to meet their fate in the private hands of your brainwashed killer artists!



double standards all over. :evil: for once be frank to urself about having butchered innocent TCs. u need to clean ur bloody hands and soul.


How many TCs would you estimate, were killed indiscrimantly by the Turkish invasion, then?

Remember there were several thousands of GCs killed, by the Turks. Surely a few hundred, if not 18% of that number, would be accidental TC casualties?

Apply some standards yourself, and be truthful without presuming all behave like the Turkish soldiers (exemplified by their Artistic Attila capabilities!)


Oh please most of our missing are from 1963-64 and these are civilians who were targetted just for being TCs like my cousins father and brother who went missing from a hospital of all places. GC's have never lifted a finger to investigate and prosecute the people involved yet they demand the world takes action for their missing and then have the gaul to appoint the blame on Turkish soilders from 74, what a joke.


If you are going to assume, without evidence, only one group of people as responsible, then you are failing the victims!

TMT were just as active (and ruthless, at least), as any GC extremist groups.

Perhaps Turkey can broaden the enquiry, and look into the TMT activities, to help with the TC missing ...
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:54 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:If there was no Ergenekon, I would bet that he would be found innocent of charges brought against him. Now, I am not too sure. Lets all hope that Justice is done.

It’s a great opportunity for the Turkish government to purge all opposition by concluding that any war crimes committed in Cyprus in 1974 were all made by a few military renegades who later became Ergenekon! :lol:

Do you absolve the present Turkish Goverment of responsibilities with this case?

I absolve INDIVIDUALS who were not part of any war crimes, but governments are infinite institutions that MUST accept both good and bad legacies of their predecessors.
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:43 pm

Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:If there was no Ergenekon, I would bet that he would be found innocent of charges brought against him. Now, I am not too sure. Lets all hope that Justice is done.

It’s a great opportunity for the Turkish government to purge all opposition by concluding that any war crimes committed in Cyprus in 1974 were all made by a few military renegades who later became Ergenekon! :lol:

Do you absolve the present Turkish Goverment of responsibilities with this case?

I absolve INDIVIDUALS who were not part of any war crimes, but governments are infinite institutions that MUST accept both good and bad legacies of their predecessors.



Not the expected answer. You must have read my mind as to my next question. I have to disagree with you, naturally.
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:14 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:If there was no Ergenekon, I would bet that he would be found innocent of charges brought against him. Now, I am not too sure. Lets all hope that Justice is done.

It’s a great opportunity for the Turkish government to purge all opposition by concluding that any war crimes committed in Cyprus in 1974 were all made by a few military renegades who later became Ergenekon! :lol:

Do you absolve the present Turkish Goverment of responsibilities with this case?

I absolve INDIVIDUALS who were not part of any war crimes, but governments are infinite institutions that MUST accept both good and bad legacies of their predecessors.

Not the expected answer. You must have read my mind as to my next question. I have to disagree with you, naturally.

Next time send me a pm with the "expected answer" and I'll post that instead...
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Postby yialousa1971 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:50 am

skipper wrote:
Oh please most of our missing are from 1963-64 and these are civilians who were targetted just for being TCs like my cousins father and brother who went missing from a hospital of all places. GC's have never lifted a finger to investigate and prosecute the people involved yet they demand the world takes action for their missing and then have the gaul to appoint the blame on Turkish soilders from 74, what a joke.


You make False accusations

Upon leaving Cyprus, Martin Packard prepared a report, which he handed to his superiors, in which he accused the Greek Cypriots of slaughtering 27 Turkish Cypriots in the Nicosia General Hospital.

His accusations appeared on April 2, 1988 in the ‘Guardian’ newspaper through his friend at the time Chief Editor of the paper Peter Preston, who, in 1964, was also working in Cyprus.

On February 10, 1994 Channel 4 Television showed a documentary called ‘Secret History – Dead or Alive’ which in a way addressed the drama of the 1,619 missing Greek Cypriots since the brutal Turkish invasion of Cyprus in July 1974.

Martin Packard made an unexpected appearance to say that in 1963/64 he had prepared a report in which he included that: "The largest single element of these missing people were the Turkish Cypriot patients at the General Hospital. Nothing had been heard of any of them. It was assumed that they were being held in custody somewhere. The outcome of my investigation suggested that they had all of them been killed in the General Hospital. They had been removed at night, the bodies from there had been taken out to outlying farms up in the region of Skilloura and out there they had been dismembered and passed through farm dicing machines and they had then been seeded into the ploughed land."

I found these accusations too horrific to be true. Immediately, I wrote to the then Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs David Heathcoat-Amory and demanded to be allowed to view Packard’s report.

As he spoke about this report having definitely not been released, I found Mr Packard’s liberty to disclose such damning secret information, with no evidence at all to substantiate it, extraordinarily questionable.


Five-year fight
I raised the issue that he either had breached the Official Secrets Act as he spoke from knowledge of a report still retained or he spoke in his capacity of a British conciliator with the Department’s permission. Whatever the case, we had a right to see the evidence of what he was so freely accusing us.

My fight with the Foreign Office and other government departments lasted five years (1994-1999) until he was finally ‘ordered’ to close the matter by withdrawing the accusations.

Peter Preston, with an article in the ‘Guardian’ (which was equally guilty and responsible for printing unsubstantiated allegations), on May 3, 1999, wrote that Martin Packard revisited the island and found out that he was given wrong information, no evidence at all, and that in fact no Turkish Cypriot had been harmed.

I wrote an article in Simerini on May 18, 1999 and another one was written by Charalambos Charalambides on May 19, 1999, finally revealing the truth.

Packard was wrong and had no evidence whatsoever for those horrific allegations against us.

The damage, however, to the Greek side was immeasurable. The Turks had used Packard’s allegations to the full and in all international forums, as admitted by Peter Preston.

Packard was obliged to write to Kofi Annan withdrawing the allegations and restoring the truth, which is that no Turkish Cypriot had been killed.

They were all protected under Makarios’s orders.

And that was the result of Packard’s role in Cyprus in 1964 which had nothing to do with petty conflicts over….sheep between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.

†Finally: "The programme assesses the evidence that pro-American elements on the island in 1964 actively conspired to foment inter-communal strife in order to justify the effective partition of the island - a situation that came to pass in 1974", is stated on the BBC 4’s website.

This is totally wrong.

The British documents reveal exactly the opposite. I find it extraordinary after such a broadcast to reach such a ridiculous assumption!

It was not the so called pro-American elements on the island in 1964 who actively conspired to foment inter-communal strife in order to justify the effective partition of the island, but the very British intelligence men - the ‘spy ring’ - as they chose to name them under direct orders of the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence.

They were the ones who were aided on the island by their pro-British elements within both communities who in their own way assisted the British and Turkish partitionist policy to gain ground.

This was an assistance they enjoy to this very day with disastrous results for our national cause.
http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Treason3.htm
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Postby yialousa1971 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:31 am

Attila Olgac confessed Cyprus war crimes to Greek official
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=VXrXK7PoFrU[/youtube]

Above is a clip from yesterday's RIK news (with English subtitles) in which Vasillis Giannopoulos, a former agent in the Greek intelligence services and current mayor of Nevrokopi in northern Greece, recalls an encounter he had 15 years ago, while he was serving at the Greek consulate in Smyrna, with a man he believes to have been Attila Olgac, who last week on Turkish television confessed to committing war crimes during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. (See here and here for background).

There is additional information on the encounter in Smyrna between Olgac and Giannopoulos in this post on the Greece-Salonika blogspot (in Greek).

In the post, Giannopoulos, who was involved in trying to resolve the fate of the 1,619 Greeks and Greek Cypriots missing since the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, confirms: 'I came into contact with a Turkish paratrooper who was in a bad psychological way. He said to me "we slaughtered them like sheep on-the-spot in northern Cyprus". And because he said he was suffering from a bad conscience, he wanted to be put on trial in Greece to relieve his conscience…'

Posted by john akritas at Thursday, January 29, 2009
http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.com/2009/01/attila-olgac-confessed-cyprus-war.html
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Postby Murataga » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:27 am

Paphitis wrote:
kafenes wrote:He will most probably be found dead or not found at all. :)


They might be getting his new ID and VISA to Argentina as we speak.. :)


Is that what your administration does on behalf of the "RoC" for the GCs who have committed war crimes against the TCs or is there not a single GC to be charged for committing a crime against a TC? I am asking because I am not aware of any GC who has been charged, let alone indicted, for committing a crime against a TC by the currently recognized "RoC". Should not a government claiming letigimacy on all levels have until now launched investigations, lawsuits, prosecutions, for the murders of hundreds of its TC citizens who have also been robbed and displaced before any foreign troops were here other than Greece`s? Especially when all these crimes are well-documented in numerous official U.N. records. Is it a war crime to kill a GC but simply a non-entity to kill, sack or displace a TC?

I hope that this clown Olgac`s case is scrutinized to the death and if found guilty he be punished to the fullest extent possible. No man deserves mercy let alone sympathy for killing an unarmed surrendered 19 year old kid.
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Postby RAFAELLA » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:00 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
RAFAELLA wrote:Erdogan was asked regarding the possible prosecution of Olgac and he said that since the guy stated that what he said in public is just a scenario then there is no charge against him!
...and this comes from the PM of a country that wants to enter EU! ...and this comes from the PM of a country that wants to be considered civilized!

...and it clearly shows the quilt of Tr regarding the fate of 1.619 missing Gcs. Tr doesn't even want to touch that chapter of the history but sooner or later he will have to deal with it.


Erdogan has executive, not judicial authority. His statements on the matter are simply personal opinions. The public prosecutor's office is authorised to initiate criminal proceedings and it is doing so.


Allow me to disagree Tim.

When you ask a PM regarding a confession of a criminal act which his country is involved, you do not expect to listen his personal opinion.
Especially when he's aware that his country has been convicted for violation of international law in several cases regarding the Cy problem.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:31 am

Murataga wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
kafenes wrote:He will most probably be found dead or not found at all. :)


They might be getting his new ID and VISA to Argentina as we speak.. :)


Is that what your administration does on behalf of the "RoC" for the GCs who have committed war crimes against the TCs or is there not a single GC to be charged for committing a crime against a TC? I am asking because I am not aware of any GC who has been charged, let alone indicted, for committing a crime against a TC by the currently recognized "RoC". Should not a government claiming letigimacy on all levels have until now launched investigations, lawsuits, prosecutions, for the murders of hundreds of its TC citizens who have also been robbed and displaced before any foreign troops were here other than Greece`s? Especially when all these crimes are well-documented in numerous official U.N. records. Is it a war crime to kill a GC but simply a non-entity to kill, sack or displace a TC?

I hope that this clown Olgac`s case is scrutinized to the death and if found guilty he be punished to the fullest extent possible. No man deserves mercy let alone sympathy for killing an unarmed surrendered 19 year old kid.


Is there a statute of limitations on murder in Cyprus? If not, is there any reason why those responsible for the mass murders committed in Maratha, Santalaris and Tochni (to use the names given to these villages on the Department of Lands and Surveys map) in 1974 could not still be brought to justice? If Olgaç has to face the music after so many years, the same principle should apply to everybody. Given that modern forensic science may permit new light to be shed on these cases, there are good grounds for launching fresh investigations into these murders.
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Postby iceman » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:43 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Murataga wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
kafenes wrote:He will most probably be found dead or not found at all. :)


They might be getting his new ID and VISA to Argentina as we speak.. :)


Is that what your administration does on behalf of the "RoC" for the GCs who have committed war crimes against the TCs or is there not a single GC to be charged for committing a crime against a TC? I am asking because I am not aware of any GC who has been charged, let alone indicted, for committing a crime against a TC by the currently recognized "RoC". Should not a government claiming letigimacy on all levels have until now launched investigations, lawsuits, prosecutions, for the murders of hundreds of its TC citizens who have also been robbed and displaced before any foreign troops were here other than Greece`s? Especially when all these crimes are well-documented in numerous official U.N. records. Is it a war crime to kill a GC but simply a non-entity to kill, sack or displace a TC?

I hope that this clown Olgac`s case is scrutinized to the death and if found guilty he be punished to the fullest extent possible. No man deserves mercy let alone sympathy for killing an unarmed surrendered 19 year old kid.


Is there a statute of limitations on murder in Cyprus? If not, is there any reason why those responsible for the mass murders committed in Maratha, Santalaris and Tochni (to use the names given to these villages on the Department of Lands and Surveys map) in 1974 could not still be brought to justice? If Olgaç has to face the music after so many years, the same principle should apply to everybody. Given that modern forensic science may permit new light to be shed on these cases, there are good grounds for launching fresh investigations into these murders.


This has been discussed many times in the past..
Since the criminals are treated as heroes on both sides we'll never get anywhere.
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