Cyprus-Forum.com

by **bill cobbett** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:04 pm

On this joining the military = fighting for your countrys' freedom business, it's far too general. I don't think the German Nazi Army, for instance, were fighting for anyone's freedom and we could of course consider the actions of the Murderous Rapists of the Jurkish Barbarian Army of '74. Just "following orders" guv.

Given the chance, would I have served in the National Liberation Struggle in the '50s. Absolutely BUT would I have obeyed orders that conflicted with my individual, personal conscious? I'd like to think not and the precedents set at Nuremburg, the International Criminal Court and the Geneva Conventions would support me.

by **The Cypriot** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:36 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Joining the military is about defending your country and its freedom. It also means defending the nation's interests. A soldier's duty is not to question but to serve the nation unconditionally. An unconditional love if you will between nation and service.

Perhaps they should change the uniform...

by **Oracle** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:45 pm

Did someone ring a bell :shock:

... then dinner must be served

Lulu
x

(Pavlov's most beloved :wink:

)

by **Paphitis** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:47 pm

The Chip Wrote:

Hey, the masses are the country. And they didn't want a war with Iraq. The vast majority didn't. It's called democracy.

But the no-brainers in the military donned their uniform and followed orders. 'Cos that's what they do. 'Cos that's what Blair told them to do. 'Cos that's what Bush told him to do.

The soldiers aren't paid to think, they're paid to kill. So don't tell me it was about fighting for freedom - 'cos if it was, their guns should have been pointing at Parliament.

Suffice to say, I also think Iraq was wrong. But that is beside the point.

I shall only reply to the above quote because that is the only part of your previous post worth replying to.

You as a British Citizen are responsible for your Government. Being a democratic nation, you voted them into power.

At the beginning of the Iraq War, public opinion was not against the war itself either in Britain, US or Australia. Bear in mind that there was much hype about Saddam's WMD programs which turned out to be pie in the sky.

In your last sentence, it appears hat you are advocating a coup against a Government you probably voted for. The Military in the US, UK or Australia just don't do things like that. Countries such as Turkey, Argentina, Chile, Greece, and Cyprus have done so in the past, and I find it abhorrent that you advocate martial law because you don't like the some decisions of your democratically elected Government.

I have only stated that The Armed Forces preserve the nation's freedom, democracy, and serve the country and her interests. This is both factual and accurate.

You state that the Armed Forces do not preserve the nation's freedom or democracy because if they did they would march onto Parliament because public opinion was against the Iraq War. So what you are actually saying is that the Armed Forces should march onto Parliament and remove the democratically elected Government of the day because of public opinion sentiment. This action is undemocratic. If the Armed Forces did do this and YOU advocate that the Armed Forces should do it in order to "stand for freedom", you would end up with a dictatorship and martial law with democracy abolished or suspended. Very Peculiar Chip!

The Armed forces protect the nation's freedom, democracy, and serve the nation's interests. The Armed forces don't do coups or remove your democratically elected representatives.

by **The Cypriot** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:06 pm

Paphitis wrote:

Suffice to say, I also think Iraq was wrong. But that is beside the point.

It's exactly the point because even though you thought it was wrong you'd still have gone and fought it. Which makes you a no-brained hired killer.

Paphitis wrote:
I shall only reply to the above quote because that is the only part of your previous post worth replying to.

You as a British Citizen are responsible for your Government. Being a democratic nation, you voted them into power.

At the beginning of the Iraq War, public opinion was not against the war itself either in Britain, US or Australia. Bear in mind that there was much hype about Saddam's WMD programs which turned out to be pie in the sky.

Not sure this is the case. Certainly in the UK the majority were never in favour of war.

Paphitis wrote:
In your last sentence, it appears hat you are advocating a coup against a Government you probably voted for. The Military in the US, UK or Australia just don't do things like that. Countries such as Turkey, Argentina, Chile, Greece, and Cyprus have done so in the past, and I find it abhorrent that you advocate martial law because you don't like the some decisions of your democratically elected Government.

Hey, this was a fundamental decision to invade another country and send mentally deficient people to their deaths; to cause hundreds of thousands of needless civilian deaths; to use the trappings of the state to do something which went against international law.

Paphitis wrote:I have only stated that The Armed Forces preserve the nation's freedom, democracy, and serve the country and her interests. This is both factual and accurate.

It's what they're supposed to do... but that's not what happened in relation to Iraq.

Paphitis wrote: You state that the Armed Forces do not preserve the nation's freedom or democracy because if they did they would march onto Parliament because public opinion was against the Iraq War. So what you are actually saying is that the Armed Forces should march onto Parliament and remove the democratically elected Government of the day because of public opinion sentiment.

Yes. Why not? If they're there to fight for freedom. Why not? For the country was being propelled into fighting an illegal war where hundreds of thousands of innocent lives were going to be lost.

Paphitis wrote:This action is undemocratic. If the Armed Forces did do this and YOU advocate that the Armed Forces should do it in order to "stand for freedom", you would end up with a dictatorship and martial law with democracy abolished or suspended.

You're the one who said soldiers 'stood for freedom'.... I don't believe they do.

Anyway, this is a Cyprus Forum and I can't believe I'm arguing with you about the Iraq war which you yourself believe was wrong. It is another chapter in Britain's undignified recent history of being America's lap dog. And it was a role she played in 1974 too.

That's when her military could have fought for freedom and didn't.