Cyprus-Forum.com

[utu]

SoSolidCrew,

I thank you for starting this thread off like you did. Getting the arguments out into the open is the best way to beal with them. Fear is a powerful motivator, and it seems to be the guiding premise for those people living north of the Green Line. I hope that the fears of the northern populace can be overcome so that a serious and sincere reconciliation can take place.

[Oracle]

Your thread rings with untruths; from misrepresenting the forum as purely anti-Turkish and ignoring the cries of "Go back to F******G Greece", (which I am told often), to many other things you have conveniently ignored.

If you are going to ignore the Greek Cypriot wishes and rights to live and exist as they wish in their own sovereign country (which you obviously do not recognise, according to another post of yours), then you have nothing to add, but further lies and propaganda, and frankly I have seen too many of you on this forum try to make us feel, because you are bigger, you call the shots!

If Turkey is not comfortable with us as neighbours, and she wants to assimilate us as part of her, as she has done throughout history to acquire her vast "country", then she will find another neighbour, then another, and it will not end until she has fulfilled her expansionist dream of owning the whole world.

This is what you have come here to tell us?

That the Turkish Expansionist nightmare lives on, and is portrayed as the requirement by Turks to feel secure ... because Turks are unable to live with other people, unless they rule them .... or annihilate them.

[Tim Drayton]

[...]

Can you tolerate 'ezan'? Can you tolerate seeing a mosque in every city of yours with 5 times of 'calling to pray' every day?

[...]

On a purely factual note, there are mosques in every city in the south of Cyprus, and quite a few mosques remain standing in former Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages

In Limassol, the historic mosque in the town centre (Cami Al-Kebir) is open for worship on a daily basis for the benefit of Muslim residents of this city. The imam is Syrian and, as far as I know, is appointed and his salary paid by the Republic of Cyprus state. A second mosque in the Agios Antonios area of town is open for Friday and Bayram prayers, and an imam appointed by the Turkish Cypriot religious authorities travels to Limassol to conduct these rites.

[runaway]

Turkey are hated for her actions against Cyprus. Why is not Egypt hated or Syria or Lebanon, ever thought of that?

Nobody wants to kill you or burn your house. What Cypriots want is to defend their own island from foreign rulers. The same goes for Greece. If Turkey decided to start showing some respect to the sovereignty of her neighbors then she wouldn't be hated. But when you occupy 1/3rd of our country and you constantly violate the airspace of Greece every day, then what did you expect? That we would see you as a friend and not as an enemy?

GCs r hated by 75 million Turks for the crimes committed against TCs. No respect is shown against enemy in any part of the world who wants to get rid of the equal partner of the country to have the land just for themselves.

[Bananiot]

You already hate Turkish Cypriots, I've read that forum.

said SoSolidCrew. This is a sweeping statement based on the opinions expressed in this forum by 3-4 GC forumers that think that socratean blood runs in their veins. You need a much larger sample than this in order to make meaningful inferences but I suspect you do not need me to tell you this.

Runaway makes the same mistake but I also feel some people feed on hatred and most of these people can be found in fora such as this one where the "enemy" can only talk back.

[SoSolidCrew]

SoSolidCrew,

I thank you for starting this thread off like you did. Getting the arguments out into the open is the best way to beal with them. Fear is a powerful motivator, and it seems to be the guiding premise for those people living north of the Green Line. I hope that the fears of the northern populace can be overcome so that a serious and sincere reconciliation can take place.

Thanks. If there's a fear, there might be a reason to that. And that fear does not disappear suddenly. South should take steps to overcome it. However, what I tried to show is Turks (of Turkey)' feelings.

Your thread rings with untruths; from misrepresenting the forum as purely anti-Turkish and ignoring the cries of "Go back to F******G Greece", (which I am told often), to many other things you have conveniently ignored.

That might be a problem but I am trying to stick within the topic, just Turks' worries. There are so many thing to tell on Cyprus issue, and this topic is trying to deal with just a small, tiny; but important one of them.

If you are going to ignore the Greek Cypriot wishes and rights to live and exist as they wish in their own sovereign country (which you obviously do not recognise, according to another post of yours), then you have nothing to add, but further lies and propaganda, and frankly I have seen too many of you on this forum try to make us feel, because you are bigger, you call the shots!

I am not ignoring Greek Cypriots wishes. We can talk this in another topic, as I mentioned above, if we do not stick into the title, then we will be lost, there'd be no solution. Also I do not think that Im doing propaganda here. Actually I believe, Im quite friendly here.

If Turkey is not comfortable with us as neighbours, and she wants to assimilate us as part of her, as she has done throughout history to acquire her vast "country", then she will find another neighbour, then another, and it will not end until she has fulfilled her expansionist dream of owning the whole world.

Turkey does not have a dream of 'conquering all the world'. It is impossible and yet, you dont need to be so smart to see that fact. Also, Cyprus issue is more mental then political. People here, in Turkey, believes that there were mass-murderings against Cypriot Turks. There might be murderings by Turks against Greeks too, but Im here telling you what Turks in Anatolia feels. They believe, our soldiers are here to protect Cypriot Turks from Greek nationalism.

This is what you have come here to tell us?

If you mean my writings, as I told, yep it is.

That the Turkish Expansionist nightmare lives on, and is portrayed as the requirement by Turks to feel secure ... because Turks are unable to live with other people, unless they rule them .... or annihilate them.

There is no Turkish expansionism. It is right, there are many people, who wants and seeks for a united Turkic states. But those extra-nationalists live in every country, including Greece. Are not there people in Greece who still wants to occupy Izmir and Istanbul? It is not like Athens gonna attack Turkey one day to occupy those cities. And it is not like Turkey would attack neighbors just because some Turks wanna.

Actually, current diplomacy of Turkey is based on peace. "Peace within the state, peace among the World" is a well known motto. Today, Turkey is filling its meaning. I can say, Turkey wants no war with anyone. And Turkey also does not want to see her neighbors warring with others.

We already know war brings nothing. And if one of our neighbors war someone, it effects us too. Politically, economically and emotionally. Turkey worked hard to stop the war in Georgia this summer. And also war in Iraq. And Lebanon crisis.

Turkey is against an attack to Iran. And also, Turkey, today, wants a peaceful resolution to Armenian-Azerbaijan crisis.

That does not mean Turkey is going to dissolve her army; a strong army should stand there to guarantee peace.

Whatever, Cyprus issue has roots going to 1960s. It is also a problem for Turkish diplomacy. You can not just leave the island. I am sure, today, Turkey would act different; there would be no "Second Strike"

Since, UN recognized Turkey's first strike to the island 'legal'; it is Second Strike which is problematic.

Whatever, back to the topic, South should convince people that a reunion is not that bad. I mean, you do not have to do that, but if you dont, if you dont smile to people, they also wont smile back at you.

On a purely factual note, there are mosques in every city in the south of Cyprus, and quite a few mosques remain standing in former Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages

Unfortunately, Greece does not have that tolerance. And within a reunion, there would be more mosques, not one or two. And there would be ezan, which is a pray call like church bells.

You already hate Turkish Cypriots, I've read that forum.

said SoSolidCrew. This is a sweeping statement based on the opinions expressed in this forum by 3-4 GC forumers that think that socratean blood runs in their veins. You need a much larger sample than this in order to make meaningful inferences but I suspect you do not need me to tell you this.

Runaway makes the same mistake but I also feel some people feed on hatred and most of these people can be found in fora such as this one where the "enemy" can only talk back.

Im quite experienced to know that you can convince no one by talking on Internet. Thats sad.

[Get Real!]

Im quite experienced to know that you can convince no one by talking on Internet. Thats sad.

Don't give up just yet... have another try by responding to my reply...

[Tim Drayton]

Just to pick up on the point of the azan (as it is correctly spelt in English) - and I for one, having live in Anatolia for a long time, certainly know what it is - which the author of this thread perceives to be a major obstacle to settling the Cyprus problem, I came across the following interesting post on the following thread (4th post):

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:E_ ... clnk&cd=17

The title of the thread is "What is life like in the TRNC?". It is to be found on a website of the youth section of a large neo-fascist party in Turkey (MHP). The author of this post is clearly a devotee of the Turkish-Islamic synthesis, an ideology especially dear to the hearts of most MHP supporters. It sheds some interesting light on the way conservative mainland Turks view Turkish Cypriot society.

Those wishing to read the original Turkish text can click the above link; here is my English translation:

I have been in Cyprus for one week, and believe me I had this place worked out on the first day I spent here. I am studying at the Kyrenia American University. It is really a different environment. When I learned that I had been accepted here I was really delighted because this is a Turkish-Islamic land. But, believe me, it is no such thing. Humanity has vanished. Quite a lot of students have cars and and mixed sex groups sit in them and smoke cigarettes. Smoking is not shameful but is the done thing. There is no Turkish-Islamic youth or life here. Believe me, I can hardly hear the sound of the azan. The morning azan is not read because the Cypriot people have complained that it makes a noise in the morning and they cannot sleep so it is not read. Is there anything as wonderful as to live under the sound of the azan. I don’t think so. Young people have lost their way. Believe me, I feel like I am not in a Turkish state but somewhere else. The Cypriot people here have abandoned their own culture and traditions and have entirely adopted a foreign culture. And this of course is very bad. Cyprus should definitely be brought back into the fold. I am looking for Nationalist friends and cannot find any. There is a hearth [the term used by this party to describe its meeting places] only in Nicosia. This is also bad. I hope there is one at my university. May the Lord be your companion and protector.

The author here in saying, "The Cypriot people here have abandoned their own culture and traditions" totally fails to appreciate that over the four centuries plus in which Turkish-speakers have lived on the island they have developed their own unique culture. Turkish Cypriots are just a entitled to define their identity in their own terms as anybody else.

I think SoSolidCrew falls into a similar trap. Looking from Turkey, he imagines that the azan must be a serious issue in the Cyprus problem. Actually, in Cyprus this is a non-issue.

[YFred]

Hello Guys,

Nice forum you have here. Despite, some GCs and TCs are having harsh feelings against, it is nice they still can communicate within the manners.

I am, a lawyer from Turkey, the country you called fascist, Mongolia, full of racists, idiots, blood thirsty people, sand niggers etc etc

Well, of course this is hate, and I am not willing to shake one of yours' hand and smile on your faces since what I see here is, you would be so pleased to kill me if you could do.

Whatever, I am sure you have reasons to want to kill me and burn my house, but still, no reason can give you that right.

That was just an entrance, prologue. What I want to write down here is, the worries of Turkey, against a united Cyprus.

Those are the common worries of common people. Not the government or army or the strategists. It is people of Turkey sharing the worries below.

So keep in mind, those may not be true, but as long as people keep thinking that way, there is no way the government or someone else can walk on a different path. So if South really wants a solution, they should convince those people of Turkey that their worries are not realistic.

You may say that Turkey is not related to Cyprus but we all know Turkey is, and as long as Turkey stands against, there'd be no solution for Cyprus... as long as South does not invade North one day, which would never happen.

So, Im gonna just list those 'worries' You are free to dislike those but you should now, those are the real facts in people's minds. And I hope, you are realistic as well.

1st: Turks thinks, in a 'United Cyprus', Turkish people on the island would be assimilated. Their languages, beliefs, cultures.. which is already damaged, Cypriot Turks have certain differences; so Turks afraid of a 'total Greekization of those Turkish Cypriots".

2nd: Turks believe on some othe islands, like Create, Greeks did mass-killings. It is fact actually, the historical records show over %80 percentage of Turkish population on the island in 1800s. It is unknown where are those people now. So Turks are afraid of same thing can happen again.

3rd: Turks think Cyprus would turn into a Greek base. Like Greek air bases, naval bases, missiles... And that would be a threat for Turkey.

4th: Turks know that Greek Cypriots hate them. So a Cyprus with Greek majority would be a "potential enemy" for Turkey. As like Cuba for USA. Why should Turkey let that? There might be mistakes, both sides did; but as long as South keeps considering ONLY Turkish Cypriots as "friends"; that 70 million populated country wont be greedy to have an enemy that close to herself.

5th: "What the hell is with Anatolian Turks living on the island" is the common thought of Turks. Cant you deal with a few thousands of people? What would happen to those married to Cypriot Turks? You are going to send the husband back to Turkey just because he is not "real Cypriot"? Its been 35 years, what about the 20s years olds? Teens? Who were born and raised on the island? You are gonna send them to a country that they havent seen, never? What if the mother is Turk and father is Cypriot? Which ones are you gonna send back? What about English and Greek people on the island? Can send them back again? You are UNREALISTIC.

6th: Turkey has good relationships with North today, as a natural result. What would happen with a "United Cyprus"? Can Cyprus be close to Turkey as close as she is to Greece?

That is a "never-gonna-happen" thing, but, for example, just an example, what if Turkey and Greece go into a war? Could Cyprus be 'neutral'? Could Greek Cypriots can feel exact same with Turkish Cypriots? Can Cyprus, as a whole, be close to both countries? The 'can be seem' answer is: No. No matter what happens, for Cyprus, Greek is the closest country, and then UK maybe. And you already hate, hate a lot from Turkey.

You already hate Turkish Cypriots, I've read that forum. Not all, but many of you call Northern people as 'idiots', 'mongolians', 'puppets' etc. That is not love. No, it is not. What can you do if those people one day start to harm Turkish Cypriots? Or attack a child just because his father is a Anatolian Turk?

Can you tolerate 'ezan'? Can you tolerate seeing a mosque in every city of yours with 5 times of 'calling to pray' every day?

Those are not 'politics'. Those are social problems you should solve first.

We all know, North is manipulated. But be realistic, South is not away from propaganda too.

Thanks for reading and not insulting me -whatever, I dont care-.

Let me put your mind at rest.
Peace in Cyprus will not be like in 1960. This time they will get it right.
Greeks will not be able to do anything to the Turkish Cypriots.

You will find that after Cyprus was rented to the Brittish empire, most of the Turkish Cypriots moved to Adana region which is why they became a minority.

Both communities are already working to get on with each other by taking part in Cypriot activities. So when you read so much hate from some elements of the GC community, bear in mind that they are same as fascist in Turkey and are also in a minority.

This does not mean that the Turkish Cypriots will cut off their ties with Turkey. Without Turkey’s guaranty there can be no agreement.

Another problem was actually the Turkifying of the Turkish Cypriots in the sixties, which was a reaction to the Greekefying (Hellenism) of the Greek Cypriots.

One of the problems of today is the shortage of water. Sooner or later the GC government will have to buy water from Turkey. This is not wishful thinking but a recent report from the EU as being the most economic solution to the Cyprus water problem. So to answer your question of Turkey’s relationship with the south will be one of economic benefit for both. They will also come to realisation, just like their Greek cousins, that it is beneficial to trade with your neighbours than to fight them. Especially when you have no chance of beating them.

So really, so long as Turkey’s Guaranty ( Which the GCs hate) is part of the settlement, there is nothing to worry about.

Welcome to the forum. Only a racist would say you don’t belong here. And naturally they can be ignored as they are insignificant, bigoted, self centred sub-human species which need to be educated about peaceful coexistence of humanity on this small planet of ours.

[EPSILON]

Hello Guys,

Nice forum you have here. Despite, some GCs and TCs are having harsh feelings against, it is nice they still can communicate within the manners.

I am, a lawyer from Turkey, the country you called fascist, Mongolia, full of racists, idiots, blood thirsty people, sand niggers etc etc

Well, of course this is hate, and I am not willing to shake one of yours' hand and smile on your faces since what I see here is, you would be so pleased to kill me if you could do.

Whatever, I am sure you have reasons to want to kill me and burn my house, but still, no reason can give you that right.

That was just an entrance, prologue. What I want to write down here is, the worries of Turkey, against a united Cyprus.

Those are the common worries of common people. Not the government or army or the strategists. It is people of Turkey sharing the worries below.

So keep in mind, those may not be true, but as long as people keep thinking that way, there is no way the government or someone else can walk on a different path. So if South really wants a solution, they should convince those people of Turkey that their worries are not realistic.

You may say that Turkey is not related to Cyprus but we all know Turkey is, and as long as Turkey stands against, there'd be no solution for Cyprus... as long as South does not invade North one day, which would never happen.

So, Im gonna just list those 'worries' You are free to dislike those but you should now, those are the real facts in people's minds. And I hope, you are realistic as well.

1st: Turks thinks, in a 'United Cyprus', Turkish people on the island would be assimilated. Their languages, beliefs, cultures.. which is already damaged, Cypriot Turks have certain differences; so Turks afraid of a 'total Greekization of those Turkish Cypriots".

2nd: Turks believe on some othe islands, like Create, Greeks did mass-killings. It is fact actually, the historical records show over %80 percentage of Turkish population on the island in 1800s. It is unknown where are those people now. So Turks are afraid of same thing can happen again.

3rd: Turks think Cyprus would turn into a Greek base. Like Greek air bases, naval bases, missiles... And that would be a threat for Turkey.

4th: Turks know that Greek Cypriots hate them. So a Cyprus with Greek majority would be a "potential enemy" for Turkey. As like Cuba for USA. Why should Turkey let that? There might be mistakes, both sides did; but as long as South keeps considering ONLY Turkish Cypriots as "friends"; that 70 million populated country wont be greedy to have an enemy that close to herself.

5th: "What the hell is with Anatolian Turks living on the island" is the common thought of Turks. Cant you deal with a few thousands of people? What would happen to those married to Cypriot Turks? You are going to send the husband back to Turkey just because he is not "real Cypriot"? Its been 35 years, what about the 20s years olds? Teens? Who were born and raised on the island? You are gonna send them to a country that they havent seen, never? What if the mother is Turk and father is Cypriot? Which ones are you gonna send back? What about English and Greek people on the island? Can send them back again? You are UNREALISTIC.

6th: Turkey has good relationships with North today, as a natural result. What would happen with a "United Cyprus"? Can Cyprus be close to Turkey as close as she is to Greece?

That is a "never-gonna-happen" thing, but, for example, just an example, what if Turkey and Greece go into a war? Could Cyprus be 'neutral'? Could Greek Cypriots can feel exact same with Turkish Cypriots? Can Cyprus, as a whole, be close to both countries? The 'can be seem' answer is: No. No matter what happens, for Cyprus, Greek is the closest country, and then UK maybe. And you already hate, hate a lot from Turkey.

You already hate Turkish Cypriots, I've read that forum. Not all, but many of you call Northern people as 'idiots', 'mongolians', 'puppets' etc. That is not love. No, it is not. What can you do if those people one day start to harm Turkish Cypriots? Or attack a child just because his father is a Anatolian Turk?

Can you tolerate 'ezan'? Can you tolerate seeing a mosque in every city of yours with 5 times of 'calling to pray' every day?

Those are not 'politics'. Those are social problems you should solve first.

We all know, North is manipulated. But be realistic, South is not away from propaganda too.

Thanks for reading and not insulting me -whatever, I dont care-.

You are absolutely right.But unfortunately or you and your family is to lieve is at the so called "Turky's democratic state" and we can lieve in the democratic states of Greece and Cyprus. When you or your childs understand the difference of the two "democratic" situation then you will became a human being.