Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Sorry to but in and all that, but there are three choices.

The third choice is what is being discussed right now in the negotiation. They have to get the balance right or we are all on a slippery slide to partition.

If you are after complete unification in effect back to 60 without the problems, that is attainable but not now. That is something the future generations will decide, once confidence is restored.

At best, what we can hope for right now is co-existence with restriction to protect the TC’s from the GC government as well as the extreme elements in the south.

[Nikitas]

"Not a single Turkish soldier who went to that zone acted in that manner towards a Greek Cypriot, let alone a prisoner, nor could ever do so. I have never heard of, nor believe, such a thing. "

This sounds eerily like one of those Stalin era retractions and admissions of error by Russian dissidents. I had my doubts that he had committed the crime, now I am sure he did.

[Get Real!]

"Not a single Turkish soldier who went to that zone acted in that manner towards a Greek Cypriot, let alone a prisoner, nor could ever do so. I have never heard of, nor believe, such a thing. "

This sounds eerily like one of those Stalin era retractions and admissions of error by Russian dissidents. I had my doubts that he had committed the crime, now I am sure he did.

My thoughts exactly, and with a smug attitude like that he SHOULD be prosecuted!

[Nikitas]

Zan said:

"You guys have seen war films and must have read some books on the subject of war....."

No need to see films. I was in Cyprus in the 50s and the British did not march people off into the fields to shoot them in cold blood. An army is supposed to be organised and disciplined, and Turkey constantly claims to have the best in NATO. By coincidence or design the Greek contingent in Cyprus in 1974 is the only side that did not indulge in atrocities. Everyone else did and the Turkish army did the most.

[zan]

Sorry to but in and all that, but there are three choices.

The third choice is what is being discussed right now in the negotiation. They have to get the balance right or we are all on a slippery slide to partition.

If you are after complete unification in effect back to 60 without the problems, that is attainable but not now. That is something the future generations will decide, once confidence is restored.

At best, what we can hope for right now is co-existence with restriction to protect the TC’s from the GC government as well as the extreme elements in the south.

You are right and that is one of the options that I will celebrate if it comes about.....Balance is the key word. I have not closed the door on partition though and am prepared for it if it happens.....We can only assume that the GCs never want us to get on in life and become a true addition to THIER Cypriotness....All things point that way unless we get a fair deal in these talks.

[YFred]

"Not a single Turkish soldier who went to that zone acted in that manner towards a Greek Cypriot, let alone a prisoner, nor could ever do so. I have never heard of, nor believe, such a thing. "

This sounds eerily like one of those Stalin era retractions and admissions of error by Russian dissidents. I had my doubts that he had committed the crime, now I am sure he did.

Sorry but you can't say that, because we are all capable of bad things if we think we will get away with it. I don't believe it happened but I can't say it can never happen under any army.

It's very easy. If this guy did what he said, it can be easily established, and if he did, then him as well as his superior office should be taken to task for it.

[denizaksulu]

So you ARE a partitionist?

Its all about options Deniz....It is time to move on and let the TC people get on in life. If the GCs see sense and another viable option is on the table then I am all ears. As is the majority of the TC people...I will repeat what was said to me in Cyprus..."Biz neyik"!!!!

You were asked a straight forward question. Stop beng a 'bloody politician' for a change.

I thought it was plain and simple Deniz.. I am a partitionist if that is he only option open to me....I don't see any confusion in that....If you want to label me then so be it.....I will still be at the celebrations if another FAIR deal is found.....Why is it that you so called "Cypriots" are he first to categories people and start the exclusions....It seems that there are not many here that are in business...You keep ALL your options open and do not allow one to hold back business.....Thatnis what I am doing....Always move forward and have contingency plans... [/youtube]

All I was hoping for, was when others ask you a direct question, why not come out with a straight answer. Thats all. I know your views and you know mine. Why not clear the air for Tim.

Sorry Deniz but I genuinely don't now what you are asking...I have answered with all honesty.....I am for a fair solution.....I am also in favour of partition if that is what it takes for this thing to move on. I will fight for all options because it will mean that my people can move on. If you are having trouble, along with TIm, categorising me then its not my fault. I believe in action and catting in this internet "cafe" is not enough for me although I see his as a form of action as well.What do you want Deniz.....This is one thing that you have never done...Explained what it is that you want.....Now it is your chance to give us a straight answer that does not involve a utopian dream rather than a realsitic option. We all know that a single one man one vote system is the ideal but is that what you think will be the final outcome???Are you a defeatist maybe.....A surrenderist....An "RoCist"...What catagory have you reserved for yourself???

Like you, I too have a few options, but I would never rule out a re-unification out of hand. Like you, I want our security guaranteed in any constitution that will unite us. . If we can work out a system with a one man one vote, so be it. We must try.Our politicians are there to achieve a snooth running of a future democracyMy first choice is a return to our homes and lands (where possible). I dont believe that TCs will disappear if re-unification takes place. We have survived until now. We should give peace a chance and that is not occupying land forcefully. If you have partition now, you are not providing the younger generation with a peaceful Cyprus. That would be disastrous.

Call me what you wish. They are only words. I believe in justice. Perhaps we did not get justice from the GCs prior t 1974, but we must show them that we are capable of 'living in a just socety'.
If these talks fail, or if there is no re-unification - then that is a different story. Your motherland is only 4 minutes away.

I am a proud Cypriot and a prouder Turkish Cypriot. Are you ashamed to call yourself a Cypriot? If you are not a Cypriot, what are you ? a 'Martian'?

Why would partition not provide a peaceful society...Two people living side by side and working for unification as equals. Why does it have to be a dirty word.....When two parents split and still work for the best future for their children after having decided its the best way...A battered wife is always the last one to realise she is better off out of it!!!


And showing the GCs that we can live in a just society??? What does that mean???

If you do not think that we will disappear then have a look at all the other islands we have lost to the Greeks.....That is so irresponsible it is hard to believe. Bir has seen this and still not lost his hope for the ideal.....

By forcing 'partition' on the GCs you are sowing the seeds for further strife. Cyprus will turn into another 'Palestine'. The Palestinians will never stop their just fight.

I am not BK. We all have our 'dreams'. The circumstances are different from those days when the Ottomans lost Crete and the other Aegean islands.

Why is it that we are forcing them Deniz.....If that is the only option they give us then it is they that are forcing us......Why should we just capitulate because of their pressure and threats.... like the way you have given the GCs the Palestinian status...I think it is us in the Gaza strip not them....

Nothing has changed Deniz...We are still the same people that have lived all those days......More and more TC people will leave the country.....The danger will be the prejudice we face...There have been many that have at alst agreed to their captors demands and still the bullet has left the gun...If you think that once the GCs have got ALL the power they need that they will not make sure that this sort of problem does not get a chance to happen again then I can honestly say you have not got a clue as to how the world works....

You said it Zan. More and more TCs are leaving now. And that is without re-unification. Wha does that tell you.

You always want to go back to the London and Zurich agreements. What difference do you think that will make? There was no one man one vote even then. Would going back there give us a different fate from the Cretan Turks and the other Turkish Aedean islanders?

As for the Palestinians, the roles are interchangeable. They hae been at 'war' since 1948. Until the Israelis pull back to the iterbationally recognised borders there will never be peace. One small spark and more strife. The same will happen in Cyprus. There will always be a Cypriot 'Hamas' group to vow to turn the place into 'hell'.

[zan]

So you ARE a partitionist?

Its all about options Deniz....It is time to move on and let the TC people get on in life. If the GCs see sense and another viable option is on the table then I am all ears. As is the majority of the TC people...I will repeat what was said to me in Cyprus..."Biz neyik"!!!!

You were asked a straight forward question. Stop beng a 'bloody politician' for a change.

I thought it was plain and simple Deniz.. I am a partitionist if that is he only option open to me....I don't see any confusion in that....If you want to label me then so be it.....I will still be at the celebrations if another FAIR deal is found.....Why is it that you so called "Cypriots" are he first to categories people and start the exclusions....It seems that there are not many here that are in business...You keep ALL your options open and do not allow one to hold back business.....Thatnis what I am doing....Always move forward and have contingency plans... [/youtube]

All I was hoping for, was when others ask you a direct question, why not come out with a straight answer. Thats all. I know your views and you know mine. Why not clear the air for Tim.

Sorry Deniz but I genuinely don't now what you are asking...I have answered with all honesty.....I am for a fair solution.....I am also in favour of partition if that is what it takes for this thing to move on. I will fight for all options because it will mean that my people can move on. If you are having trouble, along with TIm, categorising me then its not my fault. I believe in action and catting in this internet "cafe" is not enough for me although I see his as a form of action as well.What do you want Deniz.....This is one thing that you have never done...Explained what it is that you want.....Now it is your chance to give us a straight answer that does not involve a utopian dream rather than a realsitic option. We all know that a single one man one vote system is the ideal but is that what you think will be the final outcome???Are you a defeatist maybe.....A surrenderist....An "RoCist"...What catagory have you reserved for yourself???

Like you, I too have a few options, but I would never rule out a re-unification out of hand. Like you, I want our security guaranteed in any constitution that will unite us. . If we can work out a system with a one man one vote, so be it. We must try.Our politicians are there to achieve a snooth running of a future democracyMy first choice is a return to our homes and lands (where possible). I dont believe that TCs will disappear if re-unification takes place. We have survived until now. We should give peace a chance and that is not occupying land forcefully. If you have partition now, you are not providing the younger generation with a peaceful Cyprus. That would be disastrous.

Call me what you wish. They are only words. I believe in justice. Perhaps we did not get justice from the GCs prior t 1974, but we must show them that we are capable of 'living in a just socety'.
If these talks fail, or if there is no re-unification - then that is a different story. Your motherland is only 4 minutes away.

I am a proud Cypriot and a prouder Turkish Cypriot. Are you ashamed to call yourself a Cypriot? If you are not a Cypriot, what are you ? a 'Martian'?

Why would partition not provide a peaceful society...Two people living side by side and working for unification as equals. Why does it have to be a dirty word.....When two parents split and still work for the best future for their children after having decided its the best way...A battered wife is always the last one to realise she is better off out of it!!!


And showing the GCs that we can live in a just society??? What does that mean???

If you do not think that we will disappear then have a look at all the other islands we have lost to the Greeks.....That is so irresponsible it is hard to believe. Bir has seen this and still not lost his hope for the ideal.....

By forcing 'partition' on the GCs you are sowing the seeds for further strife. Cyprus will turn into another 'Palestine'. The Palestinians will never stop their just fight.

I am not BK. We all have our 'dreams'. The circumstances are different from those days when the Ottomans lost Crete and the other Aegean islands.

Why is it that we are forcing them Deniz.....If that is the only option they give us then it is they that are forcing us......Why should we just capitulate because of their pressure and threats.... like the way you have given the GCs the Palestinian status...I think it is us in the Gaza strip not them....

Nothing has changed Deniz...We are still the same people that have lived all those days......More and more TC people will leave the country.....The danger will be the prejudice we face...There have been many that have at alst agreed to their captors demands and still the bullet has left the gun...If you think that once the GCs have got ALL the power they need that they will not make sure that this sort of problem does not get a chance to happen again then I can honestly say you have not got a clue as to how the world works....

You said it Zan. More and more TCs are leaving now. And that is without re-unification. Wha does that tell you.

You always want to go back to the London and Zurich agreements. What difference do you think that will make? There was no one man one vote even then. Would going back there give us a different fate from the Cretan Turks and the other Turkish Aedean islanders?

As for the Palestinians, the roles are interchangeable. They hae been at 'war' since 1948. Until the Israelis pull back to the iterbationally recognised borders there will never be peace. One small spark and more strife. The same will happen in Cyprus. There will always be a Cypriot 'Hamas' group to vow to turn the place into 'hell'.

Some are leaving and some are returning.....That is a fact....The reasons for why some are leaving....Might it have something to do with the siege and the worry about where he next shekel is going to come from....Let us trade and then we will see who leaves and who returns....Give people a chance to prosper and watch the UK empty from TCs...

So from you it is an "eyvallah" so long as there is reunification...From me it is: lets start to build our country so people return.

So you also think that by forcing people together is not going to make any sparks???? Well I suppose you could be right...There will be hardly any TCs left to make sparks.....That the "RoC" will make sure f...A little cull here and a little cull there..A little pressure here and a little help there/to leave the country!!!!

[denizaksulu]

So you ARE a partitionist?

Its all about options Deniz....It is time to move on and let the TC people get on in life. If the GCs see sense and another viable option is on the table then I am all ears. As is the majority of the TC people...I will repeat what was said to me in Cyprus..."Biz neyik"!!!!

You were asked a straight forward question. Stop beng a 'bloody politician' for a change.

I thought it was plain and simple Deniz.. I am a partitionist if that is he only option open to me....I don't see any confusion in that....If you want to label me then so be it.....I will still be at the celebrations if another FAIR deal is found.....Why is it that you so called "Cypriots" are he first to categories people and start the exclusions....It seems that there are not many here that are in business...You keep ALL your options open and do not allow one to hold back business.....Thatnis what I am doing....Always move forward and have contingency plans... [/youtube]

All I was hoping for, was when others ask you a direct question, why not come out with a straight answer. Thats all. I know your views and you know mine. Why not clear the air for Tim.

Sorry Deniz but I genuinely don't now what you are asking...I have answered with all honesty.....I am for a fair solution.....I am also in favour of partition if that is what it takes for this thing to move on. I will fight for all options because it will mean that my people can move on. If you are having trouble, along with TIm, categorising me then its not my fault. I believe in action and catting in this internet "cafe" is not enough for me although I see his as a form of action as well.What do you want Deniz.....This is one thing that you have never done...Explained what it is that you want.....Now it is your chance to give us a straight answer that does not involve a utopian dream rather than a realsitic option. We all know that a single one man one vote system is the ideal but is that what you think will be the final outcome???Are you a defeatist maybe.....A surrenderist....An "RoCist"...What catagory have you reserved for yourself???

Like you, I too have a few options, but I would never rule out a re-unification out of hand. Like you, I want our security guaranteed in any constitution that will unite us. . If we can work out a system with a one man one vote, so be it. We must try.Our politicians are there to achieve a snooth running of a future democracyMy first choice is a return to our homes and lands (where possible). I dont believe that TCs will disappear if re-unification takes place. We have survived until now. We should give peace a chance and that is not occupying land forcefully. If you have partition now, you are not providing the younger generation with a peaceful Cyprus. That would be disastrous.

Call me what you wish. They are only words. I believe in justice. Perhaps we did not get justice from the GCs prior t 1974, but we must show them that we are capable of 'living in a just socety'.
If these talks fail, or if there is no re-unification - then that is a different story. Your motherland is only 4 minutes away.

I am a proud Cypriot and a prouder Turkish Cypriot. Are you ashamed to call yourself a Cypriot? If you are not a Cypriot, what are you ? a 'Martian'?

Why would partition not provide a peaceful society...Two people living side by side and working for unification as equals. Why does it have to be a dirty word.....When two parents split and still work for the best future for their children after having decided its the best way...A battered wife is always the last one to realise she is better off out of it!!!


And showing the GCs that we can live in a just society??? What does that mean???

If you do not think that we will disappear then have a look at all the other islands we have lost to the Greeks.....That is so irresponsible it is hard to believe. Bir has seen this and still not lost his hope for the ideal.....

By forcing 'partition' on the GCs you are sowing the seeds for further strife. Cyprus will turn into another 'Palestine'. The Palestinians will never stop their just fight.

I am not BK. We all have our 'dreams'. The circumstances are different from those days when the Ottomans lost Crete and the other Aegean islands.

Why is it that we are forcing them Deniz.....If that is the only option they give us then it is they that are forcing us......Why should we just capitulate because of their pressure and threats.... like the way you have given the GCs the Palestinian status...I think it is us in the Gaza strip not them....

Nothing has changed Deniz...We are still the same people that have lived all those days......More and more TC people will leave the country.....The danger will be the prejudice we face...There have been many that have at alst agreed to their captors demands and still the bullet has left the gun...If you think that once the GCs have got ALL the power they need that they will not make sure that this sort of problem does not get a chance to happen again then I can honestly say you have not got a clue as to how the world works....

You said it Zan. More and more TCs are leaving now. And that is without re-unification. Wha does that tell you.

You always want to go back to the London and Zurich agreements. What difference do you think that will make? There was no one man one vote even then. Would going back there give us a different fate from the Cretan Turks and the other Turkish Aedean islanders?

As for the Palestinians, the roles are interchangeable. They hae been at 'war' since 1948. Until the Israelis pull back to the iterbationally recognised borders there will never be peace. One small spark and more strife. The same will happen in Cyprus. There will always be a Cypriot 'Hamas' group to vow to turn the place into 'hell'.

Some are leaving and some are returning.....That is a fact....The reasons for why some are leaving....Might it have something to do with the siege and the worry about where he next shekel is going to come from....Let us trade and then we will see who leaves and who returns....Give people a chance to prosper and watch the UK empty from TCs...

So from you it is an "eyvallah" so long as there is reunification...From me it is: lets start to build our country so people return.

So you also think that by forcing people together is not going to make any sparks???? Well I suppose you could be right...There will be hardly any TCs left to make sparks.....That the "RoC" will make sure f...A little cull here and a little cull there..A little pressure here and a little help there/to leave the country!!!!

Somehow I feel uncomfortable 'building up 'your' country on somebody elses land and property.' I f you are comfortable with that that, who am I to say. I am only a refugee in this country like you.

End of.

[zan]

So you ARE a partitionist?

Its all about options Deniz....It is time to move on and let the TC people get on in life. If the GCs see sense and another viable option is on the table then I am all ears. As is the majority of the TC people...I will repeat what was said to me in Cyprus..."Biz neyik"!!!!

You were asked a straight forward question. Stop beng a 'bloody politician' for a change.

I thought it was plain and simple Deniz.. I am a partitionist if that is he only option open to me....I don't see any confusion in that....If you want to label me then so be it.....I will still be at the celebrations if another FAIR deal is found.....Why is it that you so called "Cypriots" are he first to categories people and start the exclusions....It seems that there are not many here that are in business...You keep ALL your options open and do not allow one to hold back business.....Thatnis what I am doing....Always move forward and have contingency plans... [/youtube]

All I was hoping for, was when others ask you a direct question, why not come out with a straight answer. Thats all. I know your views and you know mine. Why not clear the air for Tim.

Sorry Deniz but I genuinely don't now what you are asking...I have answered with all honesty.....I am for a fair solution.....I am also in favour of partition if that is what it takes for this thing to move on. I will fight for all options because it will mean that my people can move on. If you are having trouble, along with TIm, categorising me then its not my fault. I believe in action and catting in this internet "cafe" is not enough for me although I see his as a form of action as well.What do you want Deniz.....This is one thing that you have never done...Explained what it is that you want.....Now it is your chance to give us a straight answer that does not involve a utopian dream rather than a realsitic option. We all know that a single one man one vote system is the ideal but is that what you think will be the final outcome???Are you a defeatist maybe.....A surrenderist....An "RoCist"...What catagory have you reserved for yourself???

Like you, I too have a few options, but I would never rule out a re-unification out of hand. Like you, I want our security guaranteed in any constitution that will unite us. . If we can work out a system with a one man one vote, so be it. We must try.Our politicians are there to achieve a snooth running of a future democracyMy first choice is a return to our homes and lands (where possible). I dont believe that TCs will disappear if re-unification takes place. We have survived until now. We should give peace a chance and that is not occupying land forcefully. If you have partition now, you are not providing the younger generation with a peaceful Cyprus. That would be disastrous.

Call me what you wish. They are only words. I believe in justice. Perhaps we did not get justice from the GCs prior t 1974, but we must show them that we are capable of 'living in a just socety'.
If these talks fail, or if there is no re-unification - then that is a different story. Your motherland is only 4 minutes away.

I am a proud Cypriot and a prouder Turkish Cypriot. Are you ashamed to call yourself a Cypriot? If you are not a Cypriot, what are you ? a 'Martian'?

Why would partition not provide a peaceful society...Two people living side by side and working for unification as equals. Why does it have to be a dirty word.....When two parents split and still work for the best future for their children after having decided its the best way...A battered wife is always the last one to realise she is better off out of it!!!


And showing the GCs that we can live in a just society??? What does that mean???

If you do not think that we will disappear then have a look at all the other islands we have lost to the Greeks.....That is so irresponsible it is hard to believe. Bir has seen this and still not lost his hope for the ideal.....

By forcing 'partition' on the GCs you are sowing the seeds for further strife. Cyprus will turn into another 'Palestine'. The Palestinians will never stop their just fight.

I am not BK. We all have our 'dreams'. The circumstances are different from those days when the Ottomans lost Crete and the other Aegean islands.

Why is it that we are forcing them Deniz.....If that is the only option they give us then it is they that are forcing us......Why should we just capitulate because of their pressure and threats.... like the way you have given the GCs the Palestinian status...I think it is us in the Gaza strip not them....

Nothing has changed Deniz...We are still the same people that have lived all those days......More and more TC people will leave the country.....The danger will be the prejudice we face...There have been many that have at alst agreed to their captors demands and still the bullet has left the gun...If you think that once the GCs have got ALL the power they need that they will not make sure that this sort of problem does not get a chance to happen again then I can honestly say you have not got a clue as to how the world works....

You said it Zan. More and more TCs are leaving now. And that is without re-unification. Wha does that tell you.

You always want to go back to the London and Zurich agreements. What difference do you think that will make? There was no one man one vote even then. Would going back there give us a different fate from the Cretan Turks and the other Turkish Aedean islanders?

As for the Palestinians, the roles are interchangeable. They hae been at 'war' since 1948. Until the Israelis pull back to the iterbationally recognised borders there will never be peace. One small spark and more strife. The same will happen in Cyprus. There will always be a Cypriot 'Hamas' group to vow to turn the place into 'hell'.

Some are leaving and some are returning.....That is a fact....The reasons for why some are leaving....Might it have something to do with the siege and the worry about where he next shekel is going to come from....Let us trade and then we will see who leaves and who returns....Give people a chance to prosper and watch the UK empty from TCs...

So from you it is an "eyvallah" so long as there is reunification...From me it is: lets start to build our country so people return.

So you also think that by forcing people together is not going to make any sparks???? Well I suppose you could be right...There will be hardly any TCs left to make sparks.....That the "RoC" will make sure f...A little cull here and a little cull there..A little pressure here and a little help there/to leave the country!!!!

Somehow I feel uncomfortable 'building up 'your' country on somebody elses land and property.' I f you are comfortable with that that, who am I to say. I am only a refugee in this country like you.

End of.

Not really comfortable Deniz but then I am a realist so have to get on with it...Full compensation of course....We did not ask for this Deniz.....We signed a treaty and thought that was the end of it....I am buggered if I am going to fall on Makarios' sword. Only my father knows the state of his mind when we left Cyprus...He has suffered enough at the hands and plans of the Makarios regime. Why should I let his memory die!!!!?