Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

That's a pretty childish response... what exactly are you implying? That it’s not possible to arrest him in the EU or that there is not enough ground to do so?

What grounds exactly will you arrest him on? Some fictional statement he made on TV? Can you actually prove any of this happened? Second, if your going to start arresting people for war crimes then it will have to be a two way street with warrants being issued against many GC's being - ofcourse that is not a priority for a country that gives amnesty to a man like nicos sampson.

The war crime is the execution of a restrained POW and the grounds for his arrest is a self-confession during a TV chat show. The connection with the crime can be made via proof of his presence on Cyprus, and details of his corps, company, and exact role along with any surviving eye-witnesses that may wish to come forward be they ex-Turkish soldiers or other surviving GC prisoners.

If some Nazi war criminals were successfully tried half a century on, I don’t see why this cannot or any other war crime conducted by either party.

A former soldier describes an action committed 34 years ago - the shooting of a prisoner of war - which was already a crime of war at the time it was committed. There is a prima facie case for taking his claim seriously - he was in the army at the time, he was serving in Cyprus at the time, he was involved in the intervention at the time, and his story bares some basic credibility - and as such a legal action can be taken against him today. It might turn out that it is some perverse bravado of an actor story-telling, but as it stands there is at minimum a basis for an investigation.

In these circumstances who could take an action ? First, there is the legal responsibility of the Turkish authorities, including the army in particular. Turkey is party to and in any case bound by the Geneva Convention and Protocols and it has the primary obligation to ensure that war crimes are not committed by its forces and, if it is suspected that such a crime has been committed, that it must investigate and prosecute as is appropriate to the case. Such an action would be subject to domestic Turkish civil and/or military law. Second, the Republic of Cyprus could take an action against the Republic of Turkey as the latter is the state under which the soldier was acting. Here the action is against the state, rather than the individual, but the individual's action is that under consideration. (It is almost impossible to entertain the thought that the Rome Statute and International Criminal Court be used since they post-date the events in question and are not retrospectively applicable). Third, the relatives of the victims could take an action, most probably under international human rights law, and most probably under EConvHR. (however, as far as I am aware, the identities of the alleged shootings/killings by Olgac are unknown. Of course should he reveal where he claimed to have shot these people then that would be the start of an investigation which might ultimately reveal the victim's identities).

In my view, a potential prosecution is certainly possible though all depends on the political will to do so.

[insan]

This has gone far enough, thanks to the efforts of the bigots of this forum. I can only talk about the bigots of my side. Whatever happens they are only interested in proving one thing: That Turkey is a barbarian nation. Their biggest fear is if we do arrive at an agreement and we live together in harmony with the TC's. In this case their dream will be shattered.

In the very first post I made in this thread I wrote that the claim of Atila was probably genuine. However, we do not need this proof in order to show that atrocities were committed. We have unearthed bones where their tragic owner was shot at the back of the head with his hands tied behind the back. Sevgul reported that prisoners that were to be transported to Nicosia and perhaps to Turkey, were summarily executed when the mass graves at Aloa, Sandalaris and Maratha were discovered.

Right now we do not need further proof of these atrocities. What we need right now is to put all these behind us. We need to solve the problem with peaceful, political means, after admitting that both sides are responsible for causing great suffering. We need to isolate the bigots in both communities, face the fact that these sick bigots have turned a peaceful, agricultural people like the Cypriots into cold killing machines that did unspeakable things to each other. Perhaps, keep us slightly apart (Annan Plan) for a while and hope that in a few years, when the bigots that poisoned the hearts and minds of people have said goodye to this world, our children and their children can live again together in a united Cyprus, as we should have lived in the life the bigots took away from us.

Turkish troops committed atrocities against both military and civilians, and executed hostages, well before the Aloa-Sandalaris-Maratha atrocities were committed on the 14th of August 1974. There are numerous reports of such, during the 1st phase of the invasion, between 20th and 23rd July 1974, and if you carefully check the list of GC missing people you will realize that the majority of those have been last seen or originate from the period and /or area of Cyprus in which the first phase took place. Therefore, to indirectly claim that Turkish atrocities were in response to GC atrocities -and not rather vice versa based on referred dates, is rather misleading.

Kifeas, is Turkey untouchable or what? I guess u r too much influenced from Gene Rossides.

Just 1 example on 1 incident witnessed by some of the members of Hellenic forces.

Although the organized Greek resistance was spread thin due to the large Turkish forces, the Turkish side made numerous mistakes. One such example is the dropping of 120 troops on Mia Milia. When the villagers saw the troops in the sky, they took whatever firearms they had and started firing. From the 120 troops, 93 were killed, 1 was taken captive, while the rest fled.

http://hellas.org/cyprus/timeline.htm

If all those villagers who killed 93 Turkish soldiers and in return were killed by Turkish troops, beside during the combat some innocent GCs also killed by Turkish troops; how do u evaluate the situation and what type of conclusion u arrive at?

[Kifeas]

Insan, what is it that you want to say, or you want to know or to ask me?

[Viewpoint]

This has gone far enough, thanks to the efforts of the bigots of this forum. I can only talk about the bigots of my side. Whatever happens they are only interested in proving one thing: That Turkey is a barbarian nation. Their biggest fear is if we do arrive at an agreement and we live together in harmony with the TC's. In this case their dream will be shattered.

In the very first post I made in this thread I wrote that the claim of Atila was probably genuine. However, we do not need this proof in order to show that atrocities were committed. We have unearthed bones where their tragic owner was shot at the back of the head with his hands tied behind the back. Sevgul reported that prisoners that were to be transported to Nicosia and perhaps to Turkey, were summarily executed when the mass graves at Aloa, Sandalaris and Maratha were discovered.

Right now we do not need further proof of these atrocities. What we need right now is to put all these behind us. We need to solve the problem with peaceful, political means, after admitting that both sides are responsible for causing great suffering. We need to isolate the bigots in both communities, face the fact that these sick bigots have turned a peaceful, agricultural people like the Cypriots into cold killing machines that did unspeakable things to each other. Perhaps, keep us slightly apart (Annan Plan) for a while and hope that in a few years, when the bigots that poisoned the hearts and minds of people have said goodye to this world, our children and their children can live again together in a united Cyprus, as we should have lived in the life the bigots took away from us.

Turkish troops committed atrocities against both military and civilians, and executed hostages, well before the Aloa-Sandalaris-Maratha atrocities were committed on the 14th of August 1974. There are numerous reports of such, during the 1st phase of the invasion, between 20th and 23rd July 1974, and if you carefully check the list of GC missing people you will realize that the majority of those have been last seen or originate from the period and /or area of Cyprus in which the first phase took place. Therefore, to indirectly claim that Turkish atrocities were in response to GC atrocities -and not rather vice versa based on referred dates, is rather misleading.

So that makes it ok to bury people alive?

[insan]

I think what i'm trying to say and asking is clear, dear Kifeas.

[Kifeas]

I think what i'm trying to say and asking is clear, dear Kifeas.

No, it is not clear at all what you are asking!

[insan]

I think what i'm trying to say and asking is clear, dear Kifeas.

No, it is not clear at all what you are asking!

I asked u to evaluate the above mentioned situation and arrive to an unbiased conclusion correlatively, by imagineing the then circumstances.

[denizaksulu]

Bananiot,

You are looking at this issue of atrocities from a narrow point of view. If it could all be left between the two parties involved then all would be fine. But the issue often spills over into a wider context which is why there are trials going on now against people who committed war crimes in Yugoslavia and Rwanda.

There is also the need of those who committed under orders to speak out.

It is already clear that Cyprus is not seeking to prosecute or punish any individual involved. This was restated by the Attorney General last night.

From a more personal point of view, I want to know who and why drew up the policy of terror in the north during the invasion.

Nikitas, you say/quote,' It is already clear that Cyprus is not seeking to prosecute or punish any individual involved. This was restated by the Attorney General last night. '. I admit my ignorance of this, but have seen it being alluded to.

Can I 'innocently' ask WHY?

What comes to my mind is, 'are they afraid something 'bad' will be unearthed from the G/GC side?

I find this most intruiging and/or generous of the RoC.

[Oracle]

Bananiot,

You are looking at this issue of atrocities from a narrow point of view. If it could all be left between the two parties involved then all would be fine. But the issue often spills over into a wider context which is why there are trials going on now against people who committed war crimes in Yugoslavia and Rwanda.

There is also the need of those who committed under orders to speak out.

It is already clear that Cyprus is not seeking to prosecute or punish any individual involved. This was restated by the Attorney General last night.

From a more personal point of view, I want to know who and why drew up the policy of terror in the north during the invasion.

Nikitas, you say/quote,' It is already clear that Cyprus is not seeking to prosecute or punish any individual involved. This was restated by the Attorney General last night. '. I admit my ignorance of this, but have seen it being alluded to.

Can I 'innocently' ask WHY?

What comes to my mind is, 'are they afraid something 'bad' will be unearthed from the G/GC side?

I find this most intruiging and/or generous of the RoC.

On the contrary, it sounds as though it is in the spirit of allowing the truth to come out, without fear of reprisals, that this gesture could have been made.

[Bananiot]

Nikitas

As for the bigots you mention Bananiot it is amazing to see the vehemence with which some people in this forum are defending the non existent honor of the invading army.

Perhaps you mean those who in 2004 practically voted for the Turkish army to stay for ever in Cyprus.