Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

GR Wrote:

You seem to have this false sense of invincibility but I’m sure you’d swiftly come down to earth..

You must have looked in the mirror?

[iceman]

According to some legal experts in Turkey,Olgaç should be prosecuted...

Hukukçular: Olgaç yargılanmalı
Olgaç’ın bu açıklamalarını hukukçular şöyle değerlendirdi:

Prof. Dr. Ferit Hakan Baykal (Marmara Üniversitesi Hukuk Fakültesi Devletlerarası Hukuk Anabilimdalı Başkanı): “Türkiye ve Kıbrıs’ın da taraf olduğu 1949 tarihli Cenevre Sözleşmesi var. Orada savaş esirlerine işkence yapılamayacağı, öldürülmeyeceği, kötü muamelede bulunulmayacağı açıkça ifade edilmiştir. Sözleşme hükümlerinin açık ve ağır şekilde ihlali, savaş esirlerinin öldürülmesi bunun ihlali anlamına geliyor, savaş suçunu oluşturuyor. Bir savaş suçu işlendiğinde bunu uygulayan da bunun emrini veren de sorumlu oluyor. Böyle bir beyanda bulunulduğu zaman Türkiye’de savcılığın hemen soruşturmaya geçmesi gerekiyor. Bu şahıs, yurtdışına çıktığında herhangi bir devlet tarafından yakalanıp yargılanması da mümkün.

Rıza Türmen (Avrupa İnsan Hakları Mahkemesi eski yargıcı): “Şu kesin ki savaş esirlerinin can güvenliği diğer tarafın koruması altındadır. Koruma altındayken öldürülmesi savaş suçu teşkil eder. Burada daha da önemli olan ‘Kim yargılayacak?’ sorusuna yanıt verebilmektir. Çünkü Türkiye Uluslararası Ceza Mahkemesi’ni kabul etmedi. Onun dışında savaş suçları için kurulan özel mahkemeler vardır. Devlet de böyle bir suçu işleyen kişiyi kendisi yargılayabilir. Dolayısıyla Türkiye’de de bu yapılabilir.”

Prof. Dr. Necmi Yüzbaşıoğlu (Anayasa hukukçusu): “Savaş halinde bile rehin alınan bir askerin öldürülmesi hukuki olarak kabul edilemez. Bir sözleşme var. Teslim olmuş kişinin öldürülmesine hiçbirşey müsaade etmez.”

Doç. Dr Ahmet Sözen (Kıbrıs Doğu Akdeniz Üniversitesi Ululararası ilişkiler Bölümü): “Savaş suçlarıyla ilgili konvensiyon var. Sen birini almışsan esir olarak teslim edeceksin. Hele hele silahsız birini öldüremezsin. Bu bir savaş suçu olduğu için, devleti de bağlıyor. Senin düzenli orduna bağlı bir asker bu suçu işleyebiliyor. Bu tür davaları aileler de devletler de açabilir. AİHM’de bile açılabilir.”

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Guncel/Haber ... 01.2009&b=

my translation..

Prof. Dr. Ferit Hakan Baykal(University of Marmara Law Faculty head of the department of International Law):
There is the 1949 Ceneva Convention where both Turkey & Cyprus are a part of.
There,it clearly states that POW's cannot be tortured,killed or ill treated.
Any clear & heavy violation of the above rules,killing of POW's constitutes a war crime.
In the event of a war crime,both the authority issuing the order and the executer is responsible.
In case of such an appeal in Turkey the public prosecutor must open an investigation.
It is also possible that if he goes abroad this person can be captured and prosecuted by other states.

Riza Turmen (retired ECHR Judge)
It is clear that POW's security of health is under the protection of their capturers and death under capture clearly constitutes a war crime.
The thing here is to find an answer to the question"who will prosecute?" because Turkey has not accepted the International Crime Courts.
But there are other private courts set up for war crimes.
The state can prosecute such a person herself.Thus Turkey can make this prosecution.

Prof.Dr.Necmi Yüzbasioglu (constitutional legist)
Even at times of war killing of a captured POW cannot be legally accepted.
There is a convention,no law accepts the killing of a surrendered person.

Doç. Dr Ahmet Sözen (Cyprus Eastern Mediterranean University International affairs dept.)
There is an international convention about war crimes.
If you capture the enemy you must deliver as a prisoner.
You cannot kill an unarmed person.Being a war crime this act ties the state as well.
If a member of your regular army commits such a crime the families or states can bring a lawsuit,so can European Court of Human Rights.

[Tim Drayton]

Today's Radikal covers Olgaç's retraction.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx? ... egoryID=77

I will accept this as a credible source, so can oblige doesntmatter and translate the relevant section of the article:

Atilla Olgaç'ın açıklaması şöyle: "22 Ocak tarihinde yayınlanan 'Orada Neler Oluyor' programında söylemiş olduğum 'Bir esiri ve 10 kişiyi öldürdüm' cümlesi tamamen savaşın kötü ortamını, acımasızlığını, vahşetini, insanları şok ederek anlatmak adına tarafımdan yazılmış bir senaryodur. Bütün bunların bir senaryo olduğunu açıklamak isterken, reklam dönüşü program bitmiştir. Gerçekle bir ilgisi yoktur. Kamuoyunun bilgisine..."

TRANSLATION

Atilla Olgaç’s announcement is as follows: “The sentence ‘I killed one prisoner and 10 people’ that I spoke on the Orada Neler Oluyor programme broadcast on 22 January was entirely a scenario written by myself in the interests of shocking people into understanding the horror, cruelty and savagery of war. Just as I wanted to explain that all of this was a scenario, the commercial break cut in and the programme ended. It has no connection with reality. I wish the public to be informed of this.

Even so, this does not make much sense. Atilla Olgaç would have been well aware of the reaction that this statement would provoke, and would have mentioned at the beginning that this was just a scenario - if indeed it was. The term 'senaryo' is normally used in Turkish in the strict sense of a script or screen play, and Olgaç even states in the retraction that it was "written" by him. Yet these comments were made in a spontaneous manner by him in the course of an interview and did not come from a pre-prepared script. This retraction will only have any credibility in the eyes of those who are in denial. It does not ring true and he has obviously been coerced into making this statement.

Even so, it appears to me that he has managed to smuggle a hidden message into the statement. He says that he wants to make people aware
of the "horror, cruelty and savagery of war". The only war he has experienced was 1974 in Cyprus. Work out the hidden logic for yourself.

[Tim Drayton]

According to some legal experts in Turkey,Olgaç should be prosecuted...

Hukukçular: Olgaç yargılanmalı
Olgaç’ın bu açıklamalarını hukukçular şöyle değerlendirdi:

Prof. Dr. Ferit Hakan Baykal (Marmara Üniversitesi Hukuk Fakültesi Devletlerarası Hukuk Anabilimdalı Başkanı): “Türkiye ve Kıbrıs’ın da taraf olduğu 1949 tarihli Cenevre Sözleşmesi var. Orada savaş esirlerine işkence yapılamayacağı, öldürülmeyeceği, kötü muamelede bulunulmayacağı açıkça ifade edilmiştir. Sözleşme hükümlerinin açık ve ağır şekilde ihlali, savaş esirlerinin öldürülmesi bunun ihlali anlamına geliyor, savaş suçunu oluşturuyor. Bir savaş suçu işlendiğinde bunu uygulayan da bunun emrini veren de sorumlu oluyor. Böyle bir beyanda bulunulduğu zaman Türkiye’de savcılığın hemen soruşturmaya geçmesi gerekiyor. Bu şahıs, yurtdışına çıktığında herhangi bir devlet tarafından yakalanıp yargılanması da mümkün.

Rıza Türmen (Avrupa İnsan Hakları Mahkemesi eski yargıcı): “Şu kesin ki savaş esirlerinin can güvenliği diğer tarafın koruması altındadır. Koruma altındayken öldürülmesi savaş suçu teşkil eder. Burada daha da önemli olan ‘Kim yargılayacak?’ sorusuna yanıt verebilmektir. Çünkü Türkiye Uluslararası Ceza Mahkemesi’ni kabul etmedi. Onun dışında savaş suçları için kurulan özel mahkemeler vardır. Devlet de böyle bir suçu işleyen kişiyi kendisi yargılayabilir. Dolayısıyla Türkiye’de de bu yapılabilir.”

Prof. Dr. Necmi Yüzbaşıoğlu (Anayasa hukukçusu): “Savaş halinde bile rehin alınan bir askerin öldürülmesi hukuki olarak kabul edilemez. Bir sözleşme var. Teslim olmuş kişinin öldürülmesine hiçbirşey müsaade etmez.”

Doç. Dr Ahmet Sözen (Kıbrıs Doğu Akdeniz Üniversitesi Ululararası ilişkiler Bölümü): “Savaş suçlarıyla ilgili konvensiyon var. Sen birini almışsan esir olarak teslim edeceksin. Hele hele silahsız birini öldüremezsin. Bu bir savaş suçu olduğu için, devleti de bağlıyor. Senin düzenli orduna bağlı bir asker bu suçu işleyebiliyor. Bu tür davaları aileler de devletler de açabilir. AİHM’de bile açılabilir.”

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Guncel/Haber ... 01.2009&b=

my translation..

Prof. Dr. Ferit Hakan Baykal(University of Marmara Law Faculty head of the department of International Law):
There is the 1949 Ceneva Convention where both Turkey & Cyprus are a part of.
There,it clearly states that POW's cannot be tortured,killed or ill treated.
Any clear & heavy violation of the above rules,killing of POW's constitutes a war crime.
In the event of a war crime,both the authority issuing the order and the executer is responsible.
In case of such an appeal in Turkey the public prosecutor must open an investigation.
It is also possible that if he goes abroad this person can be captured and prosecuted by other states.

Riza Turmen (retired ECHR Judge)
It is clear that POW's security of health is under the protection of their capturers and death under capture clearly constitutes a war crime.
The thing here is to find an answer to the question"who will prosecute?" because Turkey has not accepted the International Crime Courts.
But there are other private courts set up for war crimes.
The state can prosecute such a person herself.Thus Turkey can make this prosecution.

Prof.Dr.Necmi Yüzbasioglu (constitutional legist)
Even at times of war killing of a captured POW cannot be legally accepted.
There is a convention,no law accepts the killing of a surrendered person.

Doç. Dr Ahmet Sözen (Cyprus Eastern Mediterranean University International affairs dept.)
There is an international convention about war crimes.
If you capture the enemy you must deliver as a prisoner.
You cannot kill an unarmed person.Being a war crime this act ties the state as well.
If a member of your regular army commits such a crime the families or states can bring a lawsuit,so can European Court of Human Rights.

Isn't there a danger that the Turkish authorities will now use the threat of prosecution to prevent other people from coming forward and talking about what happened?

[doesntmatter]

Nice, Greek Cypriot calls Turks 'mankafa' and 'kurukafa'. Nice attitude for the reunion.

It's a shame they're both TCs or you would've scored a goal...

I called papitits a kurukafa, he is a TC?

SoSolidCrew getting it the wrong way round I can understand, poor English and all that but you scoring another own goal getting it completely with your "education" (supposidly) wrong is unforgivable.

I can see it's going to be another one of those days where GR the clown is going to entertain us relentlessly and cruelly.

My guts still hurt from the laughter you provided us with yesterday GR, please, have a heart and take it a little easy today.

[Tim Drayton]

[...]

SoSolidCrew getting it the wrong way round I can understand, poor English and all that but you scoring another own goal getting it completely with your "education" (supposidly) wrong is unforgivable.

[...]

For one thing, you have put the phrase "with your education" in the wrong part of the sentence. For another, that word is spelt "supposedly". Quite a performance in a sentence in which you take somebody else to task for their alleged poor English! If anybody is the clown here, mate, it is you. Keep it up.

[doesntmatter]

Today's Radikal covers Olgaç's retraction.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx? ... egoryID=77

I will accept this as a credible source, so can oblige doesntmatter and translate the relevant section of the article:

Atilla Olgaç'ın açıklaması şöyle: "22 Ocak tarihinde yayınlanan 'Orada Neler Oluyor' programında söylemiş olduğum 'Bir esiri ve 10 kişiyi öldürdüm' cümlesi tamamen savaşın kötü ortamını, acımasızlığını, vahşetini, insanları şok ederek anlatmak adına tarafımdan yazılmış bir senaryodur. Bütün bunların bir senaryo olduğunu açıklamak isterken, reklam dönüşü program bitmiştir. Gerçekle bir ilgisi yoktur. Kamuoyunun bilgisine..."

TRANSLATION

Atilla Olgaç’s announcement is as follows: “The sentence ‘I killed one prisoner and 10 people’ that I spoke on the Orada Neler Oluyor programme broadcast on 22 January was entirely a scenario written by myself in the interests of shocking people into understanding the horror, cruelty and savagery of war. Just as I wanted to explain that all of this was a scenario, the commercial break cut in and the programme ended. It has no connection with reality. I wish the public to be informed of this.

Even so, this does not make much sense. Atilla Olgaç would have been well aware of the reaction that this statement would provoke, and would have mentioned at the beginning that this was just a scenario - if indeed it was. The term 'senaryo' is normally used in Turkish in the strict sense of a script or screen play, and Olgaç even states in the retraction that it was "written" by him. Yet these comments were made in a spontaneous manner by him in the course of an interview and did not come from a pre-prepared script. This retraction will only have any credibility in the eyes of those who are in denial. It does not ring true and he has obviously been coerced into making this statement.

Tim the knowitall interpreter knows it all, his statement alone should be enough to indict the actor and hang him high at noon.

Even so, it appears to me that he has managed to smuggle a hidden message into the statement. He says that he wants to make people aware
of the "horror, cruelty and savagery of war". The only war he has experienced was 1974 in Cyprus. Work out the hidden logic for yourself.[/quote]

Were you there with him in 1974 Tim to be able to make that statement above?

The only "hidden logic" in your statment is the fact that you are trying very hard to make yourslef look intelligent and important by joining the Greek propaganda machine to spread lies and your hatred towards Turks.

[Tim Drayton]

Today's Radikal covers Olgaç's retraction.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx? ... egoryID=77

I will accept this as a credible source, so can oblige doesntmatter and translate the relevant section of the article:

Atilla Olgaç'ın açıklaması şöyle: "22 Ocak tarihinde yayınlanan 'Orada Neler Oluyor' programında söylemiş olduğum 'Bir esiri ve 10 kişiyi öldürdüm' cümlesi tamamen savaşın kötü ortamını, acımasızlığını, vahşetini, insanları şok ederek anlatmak adına tarafımdan yazılmış bir senaryodur. Bütün bunların bir senaryo olduğunu açıklamak isterken, reklam dönüşü program bitmiştir. Gerçekle bir ilgisi yoktur. Kamuoyunun bilgisine..."

TRANSLATION

Atilla Olgaç’s announcement is as follows: “The sentence ‘I killed one prisoner and 10 people’ that I spoke on the Orada Neler Oluyor programme broadcast on 22 January was entirely a scenario written by myself in the interests of shocking people into understanding the horror, cruelty and savagery of war. Just as I wanted to explain that all of this was a scenario, the commercial break cut in and the programme ended. It has no connection with reality. I wish the public to be informed of this.

Even so, this does not make much sense. Atilla Olgaç would have been well aware of the reaction that this statement would provoke, and would have mentioned at the beginning that this was just a scenario - if indeed it was. The term 'senaryo' is normally used in Turkish in the strict sense of a script or screen play, and Olgaç even states in the retraction that it was "written" by him. Yet these comments were made in a spontaneous manner by him in the course of an interview and did not come from a pre-prepared script. This retraction will only have any credibility in the eyes of those who are in denial. It does not ring true and he has obviously been coerced into making this statement.

Tim the knowitall interpreter knows it all, his statement alone should be enough to indict the actor and hang him high at noon.

Even so, it appears to me that he has managed to smuggle a hidden message into the statement. He says that he wants to make people aware
of the "horror, cruelty and savagery of war". The only war he has experienced was 1974 in Cyprus. Work out the hidden logic for yourself.

Were you there with him in 1974 Tim to be able to make that statement above?

The only "hidden logic" in your statment is the fact that you are trying very hard to make yourslef look intelligent and important by joining the Greek propaganda machine to spread lies and your hatred towards Turks.

[/quote]

Keep it coming, Mr Clown. You're a scream.

[doesntmatter]

[...]

SoSolidCrew getting it the wrong way round I can understand, poor English and all that but you scoring another own goal getting it completely with your "education" (supposidly) wrong is unforgivable.

[...]

For one thing, you have put the phrase "with your education" in the wrong part of the sentence. For another, that word is spelt "supposedly". Quite a performance in a sentence in which you take somebody else to task for their alleged poor English! If anybody is the clown here, mate, it is you. Keep it up.

Timmy boy, I never try to show off about my education, unlike GR the clown.

The only mistake I made is to forget the commas before and after the phrase "with your education". I could have even put in brackets, but hey, I'm not writing a book or sitting an English test.

But tell me, what's your excuse for not understanding what I wrote and claiming that I am taking "somebody else to task for their alleged poor English".

It's heart warming to see how much trouble you will go to to defend your hosts Tim, really, the Greeks in the south should be very proud to have someone like you as a friend.

[doesntmatter]

Today's Radikal covers Olgaç's retraction.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx? ... egoryID=77

I will accept this as a credible source, so can oblige doesntmatter and translate the relevant section of the article:

Atilla Olgaç'ın açıklaması şöyle: "22 Ocak tarihinde yayınlanan 'Orada Neler Oluyor' programında söylemiş olduğum 'Bir esiri ve 10 kişiyi öldürdüm' cümlesi tamamen savaşın kötü ortamını, acımasızlığını, vahşetini, insanları şok ederek anlatmak adına tarafımdan yazılmış bir senaryodur. Bütün bunların bir senaryo olduğunu açıklamak isterken, reklam dönüşü program bitmiştir. Gerçekle bir ilgisi yoktur. Kamuoyunun bilgisine..."

TRANSLATION

Atilla Olgaç’s announcement is as follows: “The sentence ‘I killed one prisoner and 10 people’ that I spoke on the Orada Neler Oluyor programme broadcast on 22 January was entirely a scenario written by myself in the interests of shocking people into understanding the horror, cruelty and savagery of war. Just as I wanted to explain that all of this was a scenario, the commercial break cut in and the programme ended. It has no connection with reality. I wish the public to be informed of this.

Even so, this does not make much sense. Atilla Olgaç would have been well aware of the reaction that this statement would provoke, and would have mentioned at the beginning that this was just a scenario - if indeed it was. The term 'senaryo' is normally used in Turkish in the strict sense of a script or screen play, and Olgaç even states in the retraction that it was "written" by him. Yet these comments were made in a spontaneous manner by him in the course of an interview and did not come from a pre-prepared script. This retraction will only have any credibility in the eyes of those who are in denial. It does not ring true and he has obviously been coerced into making this statement.

Tim the knowitall interpreter knows it all, his statement alone should be enough to indict the actor and hang him high at noon.

Even so, it appears to me that he has managed to smuggle a hidden message into the statement. He says that he wants to make people aware
of the "horror, cruelty and savagery of war". The only war he has experienced was 1974 in Cyprus. Work out the hidden logic for yourself.

Were you there with him in 1974 Tim to be able to make that statement above?

The only "hidden logic" in your statment is the fact that you are trying very hard to make yourslef look intelligent and important by joining the Greek propaganda machine to spread lies and your hatred towards Turks.

Keep it coming, Mr Clown. You're a scream.[/quote]

The clown is a moron like you who comes up with complete and utter crap statements such as "The only war he has experienced was 1974 in Cyprus.".

Was you there Timmy boy, can you prove that he was in Cyprus in 1974 or indeed in the army?

Go on Timmy, give us another laugh.