Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

It was and still is flying high next to the TRNC flag. Come and take it down if u dare.

Prey to all the Gods that no undemocratic political arrangement ever gets implemented on Cyprus because that would also mean the departure of your beloved Turkey, and this time if the GCs start complaining again about an unworkable constitution and come up with amendments, you simply won’t have the option anymore to run off to Kokkina and play games with shotguns because this time there’ll be…

300 Main Battle Tanks,
220 Armored Fighting Vehicles
211 Armored Personnel Carriers
24 Self-Propelled Artillery
115 Towed Artillery
48+ Air Defense Systems
42 Rocket Launchers
1,513 Anti-Tank Weapons
…and much more waiting for you so make sure you GET THE CONSTITUTION RIGHT the FIRST TIME… think DEMOCRACY because there is no more room for error and you’d better believe it!

Either accept the DEMOCRACY OR ELSE.....


Tremble O Turks, he is DEADLY serious...

By the way, George W.C Bush invaded Iraq to bring there democracy (!) ...American style..

GR's democracy is democracy Greek Style...

Had someone warned everyone in 1958 that the absence of democracy would end up in disaster would anyone have listened back then? Probably not because nobody knew what we know today…

Well, here I am today armed with hindsight and warning everyone NOT TO REPEAT HISTORY but will anyone listen?

If not, then my theory that history repeats itself because STUPIDITY IS HEREDITARY has been proven.

I can officially call you "esek-oglu-esek" then GR...Cheers

What you are doing is issuing a threat mate....Thats all.....Democracy is supposed to mean fair....Your version does not follow that....It does not mean the majority can do what it wants without the need for what is right. It is democracy when all the people are in agreement and most importantly SAFE.....Two states...Two people...Two lands...Two partners....Two whatever.....If it is agreed then it is democracy....

You haven't studied democracy admit it!

At least try and understand what I am saying and stop acting the fool!!!

[SoSolidCrew]

Guys... When it comes to tanks, soldiers and jets, Turkish Army is the second strongest army of NATO after U.S.Army. What Turkey lacks are nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers; which wont be needed in a war against Cypriot Greeks nor Greece.

I am, against war. But look at the messages above. I've seen a crescent-star flag covered with shit. Crescent and Star are national symbols for Turks and this is far behind insulting. And also I've read threats to North by telling how many tanks South has etc etc.

A war would bring nothing but more deaths to Cyprus as a whole. And believe me, it would not be Istanbul or Ankara under heavy bombardment. It would be your cities, it would be your people, your families.

Be reasonable, you are, both sides, raising the hate against other. That is not the way to a solution.

Greeks should now, military action would just cause a disaster. And for Turks, it wont make things better.

Pfffftttt....... it is not like Turkey will attack again. That would never happen, it is just mere propaganda.

HOW CAN YOU (BOTH SIDES) BELIEVE THAT A WAR WOULD HAPPEN AGAIN???

THATS SO FUNNY.

[Cem]

It was and still is flying high next to the TRNC flag. Come and take it down if u dare.

Prey to all the Gods that no undemocratic political arrangement ever gets implemented on Cyprus because that would also mean the departure of your beloved Turkey, and this time if the GCs start complaining again about an unworkable constitution and come up with amendments, you simply won’t have the option anymore to run off to Kokkina and play games with shotguns because this time there’ll be…

300 Main Battle Tanks,
220 Armored Fighting Vehicles
211 Armored Personnel Carriers
24 Self-Propelled Artillery
115 Towed Artillery
48+ Air Defense Systems
42 Rocket Launchers
1,513 Anti-Tank Weapons
…and much more waiting for you so make sure you GET THE CONSTITUTION RIGHT the FIRST TIME… think DEMOCRACY because there is no more room for error and you’d better believe it!

Either accept the DEMOCRACY OR ELSE.....


Tremble O Turks, he is DEADLY serious...

By the way, George W.C Bush invaded Iraq to bring there democracy (!) ...American style..

GR's democracy is democracy Greek Style...

Had someone warned everyone in 1958 that the absence of democracy would end up in disaster would anyone have listened back then? Probably not because nobody knew what we know today…

Well, here I am today armed with hindsight and warning everyone NOT TO REPEAT HISTORY but will anyone listen?

If not, then my theory that history repeats itself because STUPIDITY IS HEREDITARY has been proven.

You can as well tell this to your fellow GCs who wanted to overthrow the legitimate government in July 15, 1974 in an attempt to join a country not only more backward than Cyprus at that time, but with a record level of civil war casualties in its recent history.

And don't tell me these were nothing but a tiny bunch of fanatics, otherwise your (late) president Makarios wouldn't have been whisked off aboard a chopper to seek safety in a British cruiser nearby instead would have stayed on to bring down the insurgency.

You can blame the 1958 arrangements for intercommunal fighting, NOT for the 1974 coup which was the outcome of inner conflict between GCs and involving "Kalamares" from mainland.

[Get Real!]

At least try and understand what I am saying and stop acting the fool!!!

You’re going to have to be honest enough to accept that what you’re proposing is NOT democracy but a bizarre and unacceptable arrangement that you assume to be good for your people at the expense of your majority compatriots.

The reason it’s bizarre is because the Turkish Cypriots do NOT have a continuous piece of land they own which they can segregate from the mainland as happened recently in Georgia so any claims for “self determination” are non-existent.

In the case of a minority intermingled throughout a country such as the Turkish Cypriots, the options are twofold:

1. Repatriation to their country of origin. (A civilized UN program that can transfer and accommodate the minority who are not happy and everyone concerned offers financial and logistics support for this to be successful)

2. Assimilation (You still retain religion, customs, culture, language, etc, so it’s not a dirty word)

There is no other LEGAL choice but that doesn’t stop your people from prolonging the inevitable via the status quo and at the current price that they are paying which I’m sure you know all about.

[zan]

At least try and understand what I am saying and stop acting the fool!!!

You’re going to have to be honest enough to accept that what you’re proposing is NOT democracy but a bizarre and unacceptable arrangement that you assume to be good for your people at the expense of your majority compatriots.

The reason it’s bizarre is because the Turkish Cypriots do NOT have a continuous piece of land they own which they can segregate from the mainland as happened recently in Georgia so any claims for “self determination” are non-existent.

In the case of a minority intermingled throughout a country such as the Turkish Cypriots, the options are twofold:

1. Repatriation to their country of origin. (A civilized UN program that can transfer and accommodate the minority who are not happy and everyone concerned offers financial and logistics support for this to be successful)

2. Assimilation (You still retain religion, customs, culture, language, etc, so it’s not a dirty word)

There is no other LEGAL choice but that doesn’t stop your people from prolonging the inevitable via the status quo and at the current price that they are paying which I’m sure you know all about.

What I am proposing is that your people are helped, as opposed to hindered, in making a decision, democratically, to accept that the situation calls for compromise. We do the same.....We come to a democratic decision to live along side each other. Democracy at work....Not your usurping of my rights and expecting me to accept that sort of democracy...That does not comply with your IDEAL version of what democracy is..


You seem to be happy bending the rules when it suits you...

[Get Real!]

Had someone warned everyone in 1958 that the absence of democracy would end up in disaster would anyone have listened back then? Probably not because nobody knew what we know today…

Well, here I am today armed with hindsight and warning everyone NOT TO REPEAT HISTORY but will anyone listen?

If not, then my theory that history repeats itself because STUPIDITY IS HEREDITARY has been proven.

You can as well tell this to your fellow GCs who wanted to overthrow the legitimate government in July 15, 1974 in an attempt to join a country not only more backward than Cyprus at that time, but with a record level of civil war casualties in its recent history.

And don't tell me these were nothing but a tiny bunch of fanatics, otherwise your (late) president Makarios wouldn't have been whisked off aboard a chopper to seek safety in a British cruiser nearby instead would have stayed on to bring down the insurgency.

You can blame the 1958 arrangements for intercommunal fighting, NOT for the 1974 coup which was the outcome of inner conflict between GCs and involving "Kalamares" from mainland.

I sometimes wonder if we're from the same planet...

Here it is chronologically so that you may understand:

1959: Agreement to setup an undemocratic political arrangement called “London/Zurich agreements”.

1960: The undemocratic political arrangement begins to function.

1961..62: One side is not happy and wants it changed.

1963: The other side is angry and takes off to segregate and arm itself.

1963…67?: Both sides attack and kill each other.


Right, so what did they achieve?

They proved that undemocratic political arrangements DO NOT WORK!

LEARN FROM THE PAST PLEASE!

[Cem]

1959: Agreement to setup an undemocratic political arrangement called “London/Zurich agreements”.

1960: The undemocratic political arrangement begins to function.

Then, the GC side (Makarios) did not have to sign it at the very beginning, instead should have strived for further negotiations even at the expense of stalling the foundation of the Republic. Was he threatened at gunpoint at that time like the way you are threatening TCs with armoured vehicles and tanks ?

1961..62: One side is not happy and wants it changed.

1963: The other side is angry and takes off to segregate and arm itself.

Most of GCs were not happy because they thought that these agreements gave TC side unfair power, not proportional to their share in overall population. Fine.

But, why the TCs, with all the extra privileges they enjoyed, suddenly left these goodies (governmental posts) in order to retreat into enclaves to condemn themselves to misery ?? Supposing both of us work in the same place, but not with the same qualifications and you think you are discriminated against, what would you do ? Beat me up or go complain to the management ? Seeing you unhappy and pissed with my privileges, what would I do ? Quit my post just because you are upset ??

1963…67?: Both sides attack and kill each other.

Right, so what did they achieve?

They proved that undemocratic political arrangements DO NOT WORK!

LEARN FROM THE PAST PLEASE!

NOT ONLY both sides attacked and killed each other. One of the sides, GCs, at least a substantial number of them, sought to destroy their own Republic killing their own kind. At that time, the TCs at that had already retreated into enclaves, remember ?

All this only proves that Cypriots in general, have not been prone to digest democracy in real sense and historically demonstrated that.
Since, the GC heavily outnumber TCs, I have more concern with their attitude than with my fellow TCs.

[Cem]

Last but not least, I agree with you at one point: as long as one of the sides find any kind of proposed solution undemocratic, it should not be approved. So far, so good . BUT NOT EVEN AT GUNPOINT !

When there is ample evidence that a marriage goes down the drain and no way exists to enforce its continuation at whatever cost, the divorce might be the only solution.

[CopperLine]

Runaway
Your presenting the mirror image of the GCs who get hung up on the name TRNC or deny that there is such a thing as northern Cyprus, and you're equally mistaken.

Whether you like it or not RoC is the only recognised admin and political entity on the island of Cyprus (with the exception of Turkey's recognition of TRNC). When people write that all of Cyprus is a member of the EU, they're simply stating a legal truth. Equally when they qualify that by saying that the acquis does not apply with respect to the north, this is a legal truth. That TCs did not participate in the accession negotiations, or that Turkey does not recognise the government of the RoC might be factually correct, but it doesn't alter one jot the legal standing of the accession of the whole island nor the suspension of the acquis for part of the island.

[Kifeas]

Guys... When it comes to tanks, soldiers and jets, Turkish Army is the second strongest army of NATO after U.S.Army. What Turkey lacks are nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers; which wont be needed in a war against Cypriot Greeks nor Greece.

I am, against war. But look at the messages above. I've seen a crescent-star flag covered with shit. Crescent and Star are national symbols for Turks and this is far behind insulting. And also I've read threats to North by telling how many tanks South has etc etc.

SoSolidCrew, are you able to conceptualize what the illegal occupation of northern Cyprus by Turkey means to the Greek Cypriots? Are you able to conceptualize what the illegal expulsion of 1/3 of the GC population from their ancestral lands, villages and homes in the north, means to the GCs? Are you able to conceptualize what the illegal usurpation and destruction by Turkey of the GC's properties and historical and religious landmarks and monuments in the occupied north, means to the Greek Cypriots? Are you able to conceptualize what the illegal transfer of mainland Turkish population in Cyprus, in order to take up the place of the expelled Greek Cypriots and alter the demographics of that part of Cyprus, means to the Greek Cypriots?

SoSolidCrew, if you are so narrow-minded to be able to understand what it means, let me tell you that it is more than a provocation and an insult, far and much more than the mere abuse of your star and crescent symbols!

SoSolidCrew, only the mere fact that a part of Cyprus in which GCs were the indigenous inhabitants by majority, for thousands of years and way well before any Turk arrived in Cyprus -400 years ago, you now dare to regard, call and brand it as the “Turkish Cyprus,” just because you illegally invaded and after occupying it, you expelled its indigenous GC inhabitants, is thousands of times more of an insult and a provocation than the mere shitting on a Turkish flag!