Kifeas wrote:suetoniuspaulinus wrote: Mr Kifeas
I'm sorry to drag you away from discussing the toys of war but I'm a little perturbed about yor thought of 18% - 82%
land distribution.
Even His Beatitude Archbishop Makarios offered Mr Denktas 20%-25% in 1977. ( TC land ownership claimed as 32/33% )
Why should we retreat from this figure
My friend,
You are sinking into the absolute of misinformation. I just wonder why we bother at all discussing issues relating to the Cyprus problem, if you do not know even the most basic parameters that constitute the problem. 32%-33% of TC land ownership is the fairy tail story that your chauvinistic leadership has been singing into your ears during all these years, in order to alleviate the feelings of guild that you might have felt as a result of the grabbing of 36% of Cyprus by Turkey and the declaration of a separate “state.”
Since 1960, when the government land registry passed from the British to the RoC, the TC private property (land) ownership was close to the TC community’s population percentage. In 1974, based on the records of the RoC Land Registry, the total private land of Cyprus was equal to 6,815 sq. km’s (73.7% of the Cyprus territory) and the remaining 26.3% (2,436 sq. km’s) was state and forest land. Out of the 6,815 sq. km’s of the total private land, only 1,131 sq. km’s (12.23% of total Cyprus territory ord 16.6% of total private land) belonged to TCs (individuals and EVKAF.)
Where did you find the 32%-33% percent? What century are you talking about? When the Ottomans occupied Cyprus? Before the Ottomans occupied Cyprus in 1571, the TCs had 0% of Cyprus properties.
Makarios offered 24% in 1977 to be the area under TC administration within the framework of a Federation solution. Not in terms of a partition solution. Makarios offer was based on the mutual understanding, which was made clear and recorded in the UN SC resolutions, that every person (individual) will retain the ownership his property, irrespective of which community will have the administration of the area.
Do not mix eggs with oranges, and also learn some basic facts before coming here to talk about the Cyprus problem.
Mr Kifeas
Given that you seem to believe that I lack the basic facts please re-read my posting where I use the word claim. In future I would really appreciate if you would not be so rude in your responses.
The information I queried was in fact from a Web Site that YOU felt was well balanced
The Cyprus Conflict
The Makarios-Denktash Talks, 1977
Some thirty months after the cataclysmic events of July-August 1974, Makarios and Denktash met to negotiate for a bizonal federation, the political arrangement Greek Cypriots had rejected before July 1974 but were afterwards forced by circumstances to accept. Negotiations on various matters, including a final settlement had been ongoing since the invasion. But a number of impediments to a solution still existed, including the definition of the central state, the expanse of Turkish Cyprus, and the extent of the three freedoms---of movement, settlement, and property ownership. Below are reports from Makarios to his advisers following the meetings. This was Makarios' final diplomatic attempt to solve the Cyprus problem; he died later that year.
The First Meeting, January 27, 1977
Makarios reported that during the meeting the climate was satisfactory and without signs of enmity. Mr. Denktash spoke in a conciliatory spirit and expressed his desire that the two communities should live together because, as he said, "we are in the same boat." He also referred to the "regrettable" fact that new generations of Cypriots have no contact with each other.
The discussion was opened by a short introductory statement by Mr. Perez de Cuellar [the U.N. Special Representative] and then His Beatitude spoke first, saying approximately the following:
.........................
The discussion which followed with Mr. Denktash at the meeting was as follows: Denktash answering Makarios' observation regarding "federation" stated that the Turkish side "speaks of federation". During the talks Denktash, challenged by His Beatitude, repeated at least three times that the Turkish side aims at the creation of "a federal state" and not of a "confederation".
On the territorial aspect Denktash stated: "We are talking about areas and not percentages of territory and in fact about areas marked on a map. We have in this respect stated certain criteria by which the areas could be defined".
His Beatitude replied that he had in mind the criteria which were mentioned, but these could lead also to an area of 50%. "Consequently", His Beatitude added, take into consideration your criteria and state what you propose with regard to territory because the territorial aspect is most significant. Certainly equally significant are also the principles of freedom of movement, freedom of settlement, respect of ownership and home. I have already declared that I am ready to examine any form of solution either multiregional or bizonal and I propose an area of 20% of the territory of the Republic to be under Turkish Cypriot administration, i.e. a percentage of area based on the ratio of the population. It must, however, be understood that each proposal is under the condition that it becomes binding if a total agreement is reached on all the issues.
Denktash pressed by Makarios, replied.
"Since you insist I mention a percentage, I say 32.8% which corresponds to Turkish Cypriot ownership of land." When His Beatitude stated that there was a very great and unbridgeable gap, Denktash observed "This percentage is negotiable, it remains open for discussion."
His Beatitude, stressing again that the distance was too great, observed: "There are hopes of an agreement being reached if the negotiation on the territory is limited within the framework of 20% - 25%".
Mr. Denktash replied: "I cannot reply. Our proposal is the one I made."
Anyway, T-80 looks very much like T-72.
