Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Television box,
Where are you from? Are you a Cypriot?
What do you know about the Russian/Soviet manufacture Tanks that RoC has now? Do you know which model of tanks the RoC has now?

Try the link in his signature

Should I assume that you also agree with Turks partition solution idea?

It has been said one should never assume anything as it makes an ass (out of) u (and) me

I personaly would prefer to see a solution based on a single Cypriot nation and not two seperate nations. However is such a solution prooves impossible I would accept a solution based on agreed seperation and prefer it to the current status quo

What percentage of TCs agree with his understanding of a solution?

How would I (or anyone) know?

[erolz]

What I see is that there are many TC extremists in this forum. They believe that the Cyprus problem can be solved with ethnic cleansing in order to separate TCs from GCs.

It is extremist to suggest agree partition of Cyprus is a possible solution? Have you not suggested this very suggestion yourself in the past?

A GC equivalent to them would be the one supporting that the solution to the Cyprus problem is to ethnically cleanse TCs from the island.

No an equivalent would be a GC supporting agreed partition as a solution in Cyprus - like you have done in the past.

Our TC friends in here have to decide: Can ethnic cleansing be the solution of the Cyprus problem? Yes or no?

Agreed partition can be a solution to the Cyprus problem. I personaly do not prefer this solution but do prefer a solution to continuing no solution.

It is as ridiculous for them to ask from us to accept the legalization of the defacto situation, as it would be if we asked from them to abandon Cyprus in order to solve the Cyprus problem (of course we did not ask for such thing, because we do not ask for ridiculous things).

Imo your comparision with us asking for a solution based on the defatco situation today is no different from GC asking for a solution based on the defacto situation pre 74. Can you say no GC have asked for such a 'ridiculous' thing?

Therefore if the answer to the above question is "yes" (i hope it is not), this is the end of discussions, we are enemies, and we will fight this war till the end.

If we suggest agreed partition as a solution (as you have done) we are enemies and will have to fight? It seems to me that your problem is not with the idea of agreed partition (with all the 'ethnic cleansing' that would involve) - for you have suggested this yourself. It seems to me your argument is aboout what the agreed % of land should be in such a solution. 18% and 82% and this solution is fair and not ethnic cleansing or extreme - any more than this and it is extreme, based on ethnic cleansing and you will fight to stop it - seems to me to be your position?

[Piratis]

t is extremist to suggest agree partition of Cyprus is a possible solution? Have you not suggested this very suggestion yourself in the past?

I didn't suggest the legalization of the defacto situation. I suggested that an 18%-82% could be acceptable. I hope you understand the difference between wanting something and accepting it if no better alternatives are available. A 19%-81% partition is already unacceptable though. I prefer to keep our options open for a future war than that.

No an equivalent would be a GC supporting agreed partition as a solution in Cyprus - like you have done in the past.

No, again the word "supporting" is wrong. I never supported such thing. (See answer above.) Partition is what the extremists TC support, not me.

Agreed partition can be a solution to the Cyprus problem. I personaly do not prefer this solution but do prefer a solution to continuing no solution.

In the same way, deportation of all TCs from Cyprus is acceptable to me as a solution also.

Imo your comparision with us asking for a solution based on the defatco situation today is no different from GC asking for a solution based on the defacto situation pre 74. Can you say no GC have asked for such a 'ridiculous' thing?

No ethnic cleansing has been performed pre 74. So it is not equivalent. The equivalent is to ethnically cleanse all TCs from Cyprus.

If we suggest agreed partition as a solution (as you have done) we are enemies and will have to fight? It seems to me that your problem is not with the idea of agreed partition (with all the 'ethnic cleansing' that would involve) - for you have suggested this yourself. It seems to me your argument is about what the agreed % of land should be in such a solution. 18% and 82% and this solution is fair and not ethnic cleansing or extreme - any more than this and it is extreme, based on ethnic cleansing and you will fight to stop it - seems to me to be your position?

Today I might accept a very specific kind of partition.
However your support for a solution based on ethnic cleansing today, makes me think that maybe I should support a similar kind of solution against you tomorrow.

[cannedmoose]

What do you know about the Russian/Soviet manufacture Tanks that RoC has now? Do you know which model of tanks the RoC has now?

From what I know, the majority of the RoC tank force is made up of AMX-30B2 MBTs http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/amx-30.htm with the remaining third of the force using T-80U MBTs http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t80tank.htm

In terms of anti-tank helicopters, Cyprus has a small number of Mi-35P Hind's, the export variant of the Mi-24 'copter that TV spoke of earlier in the thread.

None of this technology is latest generation and would stand little chance against a more modern force. However, with good training, the AMX-30 and T-80s are still capable systems and would be able to offer some resistance.

Cyprus' major capability problem is the lack of an air force. Without air cover, all of these systems would be sitting ducks from air attack, one of the reasons why Clerides was so desperate to get hold of the S-300s back in the late '90s.

[Kifeas]

From what I know, the majority of the RoC tank force is made up of AMX-30B2 MBTs http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/amx-30.htm with the remaining third of the force using T-80U MBTs http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t80tank.htm

Actually it is quite the opposite. From the 250 units, 2/3 is a third generation T80U and the remaining 1/3 are upgraded AMX30s. T80U is a latest technology tank and surpasses the American M48 tank by far, including it's latest upgrading.

In terms of anti-tank helicopters, Cyprus has a small number of Mi-35P Hind's, the export variant of the Mi-24 'copter that TV spoke of earlier in the thread.

The Mi-35P helicopter (Alligator) is an equivalent, if not a better system than the American Apache.

Cyprus' major capability problem is the lack of an air force. Without air cover, all of these systems would be sitting ducks from air attack, one of the reasons why Clerides was so desperate to get hold of the S-300s back in the late '90s.

That goes without saying and that is why with "Turks" and his likes solution ideas, it is necessary to urgently bring from Crete back to Cyprus the S-300PMU AA missile system. Although the TOR M1 AA system is one of the most effective short range AA and AM systems available world wide.

[MicAtCyp]

He, he he. This is your man Erol. I knew all along what he would say in this forum.I am so glad I did not fall an inch out in my predictions!!
Oh, by the way count the days he will leave voluntarily.The guy has NOTHING more to say than what he already have said in his very first post and his very first signature.S/he is an empty "koukoumas" !!

NB. I am talking for Turks of course. This is a continuation to Erols question why I was glad to wave him goodbye when he said he would leave.... (but later changed his mind and very soon he will change it again)

[cannedmoose]

Bow to your judgement in respect of numbers of tanks Kifeas... although the T-80 is certainly more than capable of engaging M48s, it is far from being a latest generation system, compared to the M1 and Challenger 2 it is lacking in some many aspects.

As for your assertion that the Mi35 is better than the Apache... you've got to be kidding. It's an improvement on the sturdy Mi24 and can do a heck of a lot of damage, but its avionics, guidance systems and firepower are no equal to the Apache, particularly the latest version being deployed by the British army.

Regardless, let's hope these systems never have to be put to use anyway.

[suetoniuspaulinus]

t is extremist to suggest agree partition of Cyprus is a possible solution? Have you not suggested this very suggestion yourself in the past?

I didn't suggest the legalization of the defacto situation. I suggested that an 18%-82% could be acceptable. I hope you understand the difference between wanting something and accepting it if no better alternatives are available. A 19%-81% partition is already unacceptable though. I prefer to keep our options open for a future war than that.

No an equivalent would be a GC supporting agreed partition as a solution in Cyprus - like you have done in the past.

No, again the word "supporting" is wrong. I never supported such thing. (See answer above.) Partition is what the extremists TC support, not me.

Agreed partition can be a solution to the Cyprus problem. I personaly do not prefer this solution but do prefer a solution to continuing no solution.

In the same way, deportation of all TCs from Cyprus is acceptable to me as a solution also.

Imo your comparision with us asking for a solution based on the defatco situation today is no different from GC asking for a solution based on the defacto situation pre 74. Can you say no GC have asked for such a 'ridiculous' thing?

No ethnic cleansing has been performed pre 74. So it is not equivalent. The equivalent is to ethnically cleanse all TCs from Cyprus.

If we suggest agreed partition as a solution (as you have done) we are enemies and will have to fight? It seems to me that your problem is not with the idea of agreed partition (with all the 'ethnic cleansing' that would involve) - for you have suggested this yourself. It seems to me your argument is about what the agreed % of land should be in such a solution. 18% and 82% and this solution is fair and not ethnic cleansing or extreme - any more than this and it is extreme, based on ethnic cleansing and you will fight to stop it - seems to me to be your position?

Today I might accept a very specific kind of partition.
However your support for a solution based on ethnic cleansing today, makes me think that maybe I should support a similar kind of solution against you tomorrow.

Mr Kifeas

I'm sorry to drag you away from discussing the toys of war but I'm a little perturbed about yor thought of 18% - 82%
land distribution.

Even His Beatitude Archbishop Makarios offered Mr Denktas 20%-25% in 1977. ( TC land ownership claimed as 32/33% )

Why should we retreat from this figure

[MicAtCyp]

Sir Tony,

That was for administration purposes. Not because of land ownership.The privately owned lands of the TCs were always (since the British came here) around 12%.

By regards to Regina Sue and to Paulina or Paul.

Did I guess correct SueToniusPaulinus

[Piratis]

TC land ownership claimed as 32/33%

I claim the ownership of the whole world.

In any case I believe we already agreed that the solution will be based on ethnic cleansing, this is what the TCs want.

Therefore there is no need to talk about percentages. They will keep the 36% in which they performed ethnic cleansing for another 5-10-20-50-100 years, and then they will get 0% within days. This is what they choose.