by Get Real! » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:18 am
zan wrote:Why do the GCs and the TCs look so much alike and can even be placed on the specific island.....I can see who is a Cypriot from a mile off and so can most of us....
by Get Real! » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:29 am
insan wrote:It is clear that i was making logical asumptions on possible to had been inter-marriages among Ottoman Turks and the then peasantry of GC women; ...
by Get Real! » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:43 am
insan wrote:
by insan » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:06 am
Get Real! wrote:insan wrote:It is clear that i was making logical asumptions on possible to had been inter-marriages among Ottoman Turks and the then peasantry of GC women; ...
What are you talking about? The Orthodox Church NEVER conducts a marriage between a Christian and a Muslim unless the latter converts to Christianity and the likelihood of an Ottoman doing that was zero!
Both communities frowned upon such unthinkable relationships as they were considered religious anathema, and anyone who ever dared come close was quickly chastised and/or removed from society altogether. A family would’ve most likely disowned anyone suggesting a fondness for someone of the “other” religion let alone convert to marry them!
Following the defeat of the Venetians, Lala Mustafa Pasha, the Turkish Commander, chose 12,000 foot soldiers to remain on the island for the formation of the defensive garrison of Famagusta, Nicosia and Kyrenia. The military forces were complemented by an additional 20,000 decommissioned soldiers and 2,000 cavalry remaining as colonists. These people as a whole formed the original nucleus of the fledgling Turkish-Cypriot community whose members were of Turkish origin. Steps were also taken to assist all soldiers with dependents on the mainland to bring their wives and children to Cyprus.
France
During World War I, there were 135,000 soldiers from British India,[80] a large number of soldiers from French North Africa,[81] and 20,000 labourers from South Africa,[82] who served in France. Much of the French male population had gone to war, leaving behind a surplus of French females,[83] many of whom formed interracial relationships with non-white soldiers, mainly Indian[84][85] and North African.[80] British and French authorities allowed foreign Muslim soldiers to intermarry with local French females on the basis of Islamic law, which allows marriage between Muslim males and Christian and Jewish females.
[edit] Italian Peninsula
"Othello and Desdemona", a painting by Alexandre-Marie Colin in 1829As was the case in other regions conquered by Muslims, it was acceptable in Islamic marital law for a Muslim male to marry Christian and Jewish females in southern Italy when under Islamic rule between the 8th and 11th centuries.
Europe in the 13th century, the Mongols also intermarried with the local population.
In the 11th century, the Byzantine territory of Anatolia was conquered by the Seljuq Turks, who came from Turkestan in Central Asia. Their Ottoman Turkish descendants went on to annex the Balkans and much of Eastern Europe in the 15th and 16th centuries. Due to Islamic marital law allowing a Muslim male to marry Christian and Jewish females, it was common in the Ottoman Empire for Turkish males to intermarry with European females. For example, various sultans of the Ottoman Dynasty often had Greek (Rûm), Slavic (Saqaliba), Venetian, Caucasian and French wives. Some of these European wives exerted great influence upon the empire as Valide Sultan ("Sultan's Parent"), some famous examples including Roxelana, a Slavic harem slave who later became Suleiman the Magnificent's favourite wife, and Aimée du Buc de Rivéry, wife of Abdul Hamid I and sister of French Empress Josephine. Due to the common occurrence of such intermarriages in the Ottoman Empire, they have had a significant impact on the ethnic makeup of the modern Turkish population in Turkey, which now differs to that of the Turkic population in Central Asia.
Muslim-Christian relations: While Muslims and Christians are permanent features of social life in the regions under study, they are communities with porous borders. Over the years border-crossing has taken place, most frequently through inter-religious marriages. Yet ‘Muslims’ and ‘Christians’ persist as clear-cut categories and religion remains the prime identity marker. We need to focus our research on why this is so and provide detailed ethnography on the dynamics of identification and interaction between Muslims and Christians.
The subsequent Ottoman occupation of Cyprus got off to a good start. The Orthodox Church and population were allowed freedom of worship, but the Catholics were forced to either convert to Islam or Orthodoxy, or leave the island. Peasants were given title to the land they had traditionally worked for landlords, and some 30,000 Anatolians moved to the island, as compared to an existing population of some 150,000. The two religious and ethnic groups coexisted peacefully, since they usually had a common cause in opposing corrupt governors sent from Constantinople. The most powerful position in Cyprus came to be that of archbishop, with the political blessing of the sultan. The archbishop ultimately became the tax collector, so the position which had been held by greedy functionaries came to be much more equitable. He also had the power to appoint the head of the civil service (dragoman). Thus, the Muslim Turks technically controlled the island, but the Orthodox Cypriots exercised de facto control.
Though nvm. I have already accepted EVE as my Grandest Ma 
by insan » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:16 am
Get Real! wrote:insan wrote:
So why do you suppose that in the space of 200 years the GC “taxpayers” according to this author, dwindled by around 60% when it should've been the other way round?
If that shocking discrepancy didn’t catch your eye, what did to have made you post this?
Now i need to have my cup of coffee and do my job for a while. I'm gonna buy a premium account for a kid. brb by Get Real! » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:47 am
insan wrote:Get Real! wrote:insan wrote:It is clear that i was making logical asumptions on possible to had been inter-marriages among Ottoman Turks and the then peasantry of GC women; ...
What are you talking about? The Orthodox Church NEVER conducts a marriage between a Christian and a Muslim unless the latter converts to Christianity and the likelihood of an Ottoman doing that was zero!
Both communities frowned upon such unthinkable relationships as they were considered religious anathema, and anyone who ever dared come close was quickly chastised and/or removed from society altogether. A family would’ve most likely disowned anyone suggesting a fondness for someone of the “other” religion let alone convert to marry them!
According to the below quoted source it seems what u r saying is true.Following the defeat of the Venetians, Lala Mustafa Pasha, the Turkish Commander, chose 12,000 foot soldiers to remain on the island for the formation of the defensive garrison of Famagusta, Nicosia and Kyrenia. The military forces were complemented by an additional 20,000 decommissioned soldiers and 2,000 cavalry remaining as colonists. These people as a whole formed the original nucleus of the fledgling Turkish-Cypriot community whose members were of Turkish origin. Steps were also taken to assist all soldiers with dependents on the mainland to bring their wives and children to Cyprus.
http://www.whatson-northcyprus.com/history/ottoman.htm
However, we need to take into consideration the then circumstances as well. Year 1571, Cyprus had just been conquered by Ottomans. The subsequent Ottoman occupation of Cyprus got off to a good start. The Orthodox Church and population were allowed freedom of worship... Why? We knowFrance
During World War I, there were 135,000 soldiers from British India,[80] a large number of soldiers from French North Africa,[81] and 20,000 labourers from South Africa,[82] who served in France. Much of the French male population had gone to war, leaving behind a surplus of French females,[83] many of whom formed interracial relationships with non-white soldiers, mainly Indian[84][85] and North African.[80] British and French authorities allowed foreign Muslim soldiers to intermarry with local French females on the basis of Islamic law, which allows marriage between Muslim males and Christian and Jewish females.[edit] Italian Peninsula
"Othello and Desdemona", a painting by Alexandre-Marie Colin in 1829As was the case in other regions conquered by Muslims, it was acceptable in Islamic marital law for a Muslim male to marry Christian and Jewish females in southern Italy when under Islamic rule between the 8th and 11th centuries.Europe in the 13th century, the Mongols also intermarried with the local population.
In the 11th century, the Byzantine territory of Anatolia was conquered by the Seljuq Turks, who came from Turkestan in Central Asia. Their Ottoman Turkish descendants went on to annex the Balkans and much of Eastern Europe in the 15th and 16th centuries. Due to Islamic marital law allowing a Muslim male to marry Christian and Jewish females, it was common in the Ottoman Empire for Turkish males to intermarry with European females. For example, various sultans of the Ottoman Dynasty often had Greek (Rûm), Slavic (Saqaliba), Venetian, Caucasian and French wives. Some of these European wives exerted great influence upon the empire as Valide Sultan ("Sultan's Parent"), some famous examples including Roxelana, a Slavic harem slave who later became Suleiman the Magnificent's favourite wife, and Aimée du Buc de Rivéry, wife of Abdul Hamid I and sister of French Empress Josephine. Due to the common occurrence of such intermarriages in the Ottoman Empire, they have had a significant impact on the ethnic makeup of the modern Turkish population in Turkey, which now differs to that of the Turkic population in Central Asia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriageMuslim-Christian relations: While Muslims and Christians are permanent features of social life in the regions under study, they are communities with porous borders. Over the years border-crossing has taken place, most frequently through inter-religious marriages. Yet ‘Muslims’ and ‘Christians’ persist as clear-cut categories and religion remains the prime identity marker. We need to focus our research on why this is so and provide detailed ethnography on the dynamics of identification and interaction between Muslims and Christians.
http://sites.google.com/site/postottoman/The subsequent Ottoman occupation of Cyprus got off to a good start. The Orthodox Church and population were allowed freedom of worship, but the Catholics were forced to either convert to Islam or Orthodoxy, or leave the island. Peasants were given title to the land they had traditionally worked for landlords, and some 30,000 Anatolians moved to the island, as compared to an existing population of some 150,000. The two religious and ethnic groups coexisted peacefully, since they usually had a common cause in opposing corrupt governors sent from Constantinople. The most powerful position in Cyprus came to be that of archbishop, with the political blessing of the sultan. The archbishop ultimately became the tax collector, so the position which had been held by greedy functionaries came to be much more equitable. He also had the power to appoint the head of the civil service (dragoman). Thus, the Muslim Turks technically controlled the island, but the Orthodox Cypriots exercised de facto control.
http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2008/03 ... of-cyprus/
And since the Sultan and Arcbishop of Cyprus had soon become "good friends"; I'm still scratching my head regarding the who was my grand-grand-grand ma
OTTOMAN RULE
Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.
In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.
by insan » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:51 am
Get Real! wrote:insan wrote:Get Real! wrote:insan wrote:It is clear that i was making logical asumptions on possible to had been inter-marriages among Ottoman Turks and the then peasantry of GC women; ...
What are you talking about? The Orthodox Church NEVER conducts a marriage between a Christian and a Muslim unless the latter converts to Christianity and the likelihood of an Ottoman doing that was zero!
Both communities frowned upon such unthinkable relationships as they were considered religious anathema, and anyone who ever dared come close was quickly chastised and/or removed from society altogether. A family would’ve most likely disowned anyone suggesting a fondness for someone of the “other” religion let alone convert to marry them!
According to the below quoted source it seems what u r saying is true.Following the defeat of the Venetians, Lala Mustafa Pasha, the Turkish Commander, chose 12,000 foot soldiers to remain on the island for the formation of the defensive garrison of Famagusta, Nicosia and Kyrenia. The military forces were complemented by an additional 20,000 decommissioned soldiers and 2,000 cavalry remaining as colonists. These people as a whole formed the original nucleus of the fledgling Turkish-Cypriot community whose members were of Turkish origin. Steps were also taken to assist all soldiers with dependents on the mainland to bring their wives and children to Cyprus.
http://www.whatson-northcyprus.com/history/ottoman.htm
However, we need to take into consideration the then circumstances as well. Year 1571, Cyprus had just been conquered by Ottomans. The subsequent Ottoman occupation of Cyprus got off to a good start. The Orthodox Church and population were allowed freedom of worship... Why? We knowFrance
During World War I, there were 135,000 soldiers from British India,[80] a large number of soldiers from French North Africa,[81] and 20,000 labourers from South Africa,[82] who served in France. Much of the French male population had gone to war, leaving behind a surplus of French females,[83] many of whom formed interracial relationships with non-white soldiers, mainly Indian[84][85] and North African.[80] British and French authorities allowed foreign Muslim soldiers to intermarry with local French females on the basis of Islamic law, which allows marriage between Muslim males and Christian and Jewish females.[edit] Italian Peninsula
"Othello and Desdemona", a painting by Alexandre-Marie Colin in 1829As was the case in other regions conquered by Muslims, it was acceptable in Islamic marital law for a Muslim male to marry Christian and Jewish females in southern Italy when under Islamic rule between the 8th and 11th centuries.Europe in the 13th century, the Mongols also intermarried with the local population.
In the 11th century, the Byzantine territory of Anatolia was conquered by the Seljuq Turks, who came from Turkestan in Central Asia. Their Ottoman Turkish descendants went on to annex the Balkans and much of Eastern Europe in the 15th and 16th centuries. Due to Islamic marital law allowing a Muslim male to marry Christian and Jewish females, it was common in the Ottoman Empire for Turkish males to intermarry with European females. For example, various sultans of the Ottoman Dynasty often had Greek (Rûm), Slavic (Saqaliba), Venetian, Caucasian and French wives. Some of these European wives exerted great influence upon the empire as Valide Sultan ("Sultan's Parent"), some famous examples including Roxelana, a Slavic harem slave who later became Suleiman the Magnificent's favourite wife, and Aimée du Buc de Rivéry, wife of Abdul Hamid I and sister of French Empress Josephine. Due to the common occurrence of such intermarriages in the Ottoman Empire, they have had a significant impact on the ethnic makeup of the modern Turkish population in Turkey, which now differs to that of the Turkic population in Central Asia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriageMuslim-Christian relations: While Muslims and Christians are permanent features of social life in the regions under study, they are communities with porous borders. Over the years border-crossing has taken place, most frequently through inter-religious marriages. Yet ‘Muslims’ and ‘Christians’ persist as clear-cut categories and religion remains the prime identity marker. We need to focus our research on why this is so and provide detailed ethnography on the dynamics of identification and interaction between Muslims and Christians.
http://sites.google.com/site/postottoman/The subsequent Ottoman occupation of Cyprus got off to a good start. The Orthodox Church and population were allowed freedom of worship, but the Catholics were forced to either convert to Islam or Orthodoxy, or leave the island. Peasants were given title to the land they had traditionally worked for landlords, and some 30,000 Anatolians moved to the island, as compared to an existing population of some 150,000. The two religious and ethnic groups coexisted peacefully, since they usually had a common cause in opposing corrupt governors sent from Constantinople. The most powerful position in Cyprus came to be that of archbishop, with the political blessing of the sultan. The archbishop ultimately became the tax collector, so the position which had been held by greedy functionaries came to be much more equitable. He also had the power to appoint the head of the civil service (dragoman). Thus, the Muslim Turks technically controlled the island, but the Orthodox Cypriots exercised de facto control.
http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2008/03 ... of-cyprus/
And since the Sultan and Arcbishop of Cyprus had soon become "good friends"; I'm still scratching my head regarding the who was my grand-grand-grand ma
Quit posting garbage links that contain stupid assumptions like…
“The subsequent Ottoman occupation of Cyprus got off to a good start…”
…and don’t EVER patronize my ancestors with your dumb go-happy go-lucky assumptions!
This is what happened on Cyprus in 1570 according to The Library of Congress so get that stupid grin off your face, and open your eyes to your Ottoman ancestor’s atrocities…OTTOMAN RULE
Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.
In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?f ... CID+cy0017)
So far, you’ve posted absolutely NOTHING of value to support your silly claim that voluntary interracial marriages took place and you won’t find any, as it was ILLEGAL for both religions to do so.
An uneducated clown like you should DO MORE READING FROM CREDIBLE SOURCES and less posting.
by Get Real! » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:57 am
insan wrote:And btw bro, till i get back, have a guess abt how many GC adult males stayed alive after the war of 1571...
by Get Real! » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:01 am
insan wrote:Keep ur shirt on bro! Be calm and reply with ur so-called credible sources instead shouting like an embryonic "ape"
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