Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

The Sun

The July 74 Turkish invasion of Cyprus is not something that we all read about in a British newspaper… some of us were actually right here where newspapers ceased to print.

[insan]

and abortion is illogal in cyprus only for the war in 1974 they made an exeption to these women that where raped by the turkish and allowed them to have abortions imagine a 13 year old girl raped by the army having to have an abortion the youngest was 12??? all the way to the old ladies, the army not getting enough sex raping anything with two legs?

When i put the keywords(rape, Turkish, Cyprus) into google search, just a bunch of Hellenic propaganda websites appear in the results page. Where is that so-called ECHR report that charged Turkey bcz of the mass rapes in 1974 war? I couldn't even find such a report on official gov.cy websites. Waging propaganda to create impressions in favour of ur self-interests haven't led u to what u desire and won't lead u ever...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

I asked, where is the report regarding the mass rapes of GC females by Turkish soldiers? u put a link to another propganda crap by someone. I googled abt Iain Walker and came up 2 different versions of the almost same story but with different dates; on again some bunch of Hellenic propaganda websites. One of them states that it was reported to The Sun newspaer on 5th of August while the other one states that it was reported on 8th of August. In fact there's no such The Sun reporter comes up from google search.

Here is the source of propaganda:
Enotita - A pan-orthodox organization with the stated goal of defending the values of Hellenism and all of Orthodoxy from Islam and the West.
-- http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/ Regional: Europe: Greece: Society and Culture: Politics
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/turks1.doc
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/id11.html
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/id1.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=tr&q=en ... thodox&lr=
http://www.neobyzantine.org/movement/statute.php

[utu]

and abortion is illogal in cyprus only for the war in 1974 they made an exeption to these women that where raped by the turkish and allowed them to have abortions imagine a 13 year old girl raped by the army having to have an abortion the youngest was 12??? all the way to the old ladies, the army not getting enough sex raping anything with two legs?

When i put the keywords(rape, Turkish, Cyprus) into google search, just a bunch of Hellenic propaganda websites appear in the results page. Where is that so-called ECHR report that charged Turkey bcz of the mass rapes in 1974 war? I couldn't even find such a report on official gov.cy websites. Waging propaganda to create impressions in favour of ur self-interests haven't led u to what u desire and won't lead u ever...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

I asked, where is the report regarding the mass rapes of GC females by Turkish soldiers? u put a link to another propganda crap by someone. I googled abt Iain Walker and came up 2 different versions of the almost same story but with different dates; on again some bunch of Hellenic propaganda websites. One of them states that it was reported to The Sun newspaer on 5th of August while the other one states that it was reported on 8th of August. In fact there's no such The Sun reporter comes up from google search.

Here is the source of propaganda:
Enotita - A pan-orthodox organization with the stated goal of defending the values of Hellenism and all of Orthodoxy from Islam and the West.
-- http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/ Regional: Europe: Greece: Society and Culture: Politics
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/turks1.doc
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/id11.html
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/id1.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=tr&q=en ... thodox&lr=
http://www.neobyzantine.org/movement/statute.php

I guess Pontius Pilate's famous quote comes to mind: "What is truth?"

[Tim Drayton]

peasantry? Harems?

Nomadic harems? I wonder how that works. By their very nature, harems have to be contained within pretty sound walls.

Harems have had a press with you lot.....All it means is the "womens quarters"...As opposed to the "Selamlik"...Mens quarters.

Women and their children were occupants of this area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

They were not fortresses Tim.

Have you ever visited the Harem at Topkapı Palace? That was pretty much like a fortress. No nomadic people could maintain such an institution, i.e. the kind of harems that the Ottoman Sultan's maintained - which is what I think Oracle is referring to.

[Tim Drayton]

I used the term "harem" in the loosest sense. Not just to denote the Royal Harems, but as Zan has explained, the run-of-the-mill collections of woeful women the Ottoman-Turks took along, to help them spread their demon seeds

They were not necessarily the delightful dens of your dreams

The Ottomans were not nomads, you ignorant woman.

[zan]

peasantry? Harems?

Nomadic harems? I wonder how that works. By their very nature, harems have to be contained within pretty sound walls.

Harems have had a press with you lot.....All it means is the "womens quarters"...As opposed to the "Selamlik"...Mens quarters.

Women and their children were occupants of this area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

They were not fortresses Tim.

Have you ever visited the Harem at Topkapı Palace? That was pretty much like a fortress. No nomadic people could maintain such an institution, i.e. the kind of harems that the Ottoman Sultan's maintained - which is what I think Oracle is referring to.

I can't maintain what the Queen of England can...

[DT.]

and abortion is illogal in cyprus only for the war in 1974 they made an exeption to these women that where raped by the turkish and allowed them to have abortions imagine a 13 year old girl raped by the army having to have an abortion the youngest was 12??? all the way to the old ladies, the army not getting enough sex raping anything with two legs?

When i put the keywords(rape, Turkish, Cyprus) into google search, just a bunch of Hellenic propaganda websites appear in the results page. Where is that so-called ECHR report that charged Turkey bcz of the mass rapes in 1974 war? I couldn't even find such a report on official gov.cy websites. Waging propaganda to create impressions in favour of ur self-interests haven't led u to what u desire and won't lead u ever...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

I asked, where is the report regarding the mass rapes of GC females by Turkish soldiers? u put a link to another propganda crap by someone. I googled abt Iain Walker and came up 2 different versions of the almost same story but with different dates; on again some bunch of Hellenic propaganda websites. One of them states that it was reported to The Sun newspaer on 5th of August while the other one states that it was reported on 8th of August. In fact there's no such The Sun reporter comes up from google search.

Here is the source of propaganda:
Enotita - A pan-orthodox organization with the stated goal of defending the values of Hellenism and all of Orthodoxy from Islam and the West.
-- http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/ Regional: Europe: Greece: Society and Culture: Politics
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/turks1.doc
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/id11.html
http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/enotita/id1.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=tr&q=en ... thodox&lr=
http://www.neobyzantine.org/movement/statute.php

Feel free to have a chat with my mother in law. A Scot doctor who moved to Cyprus in the late 60's to marry a Cypriot. She and 2 other Cypriot doctors were carrying out abortions on girls that were raped during the invasion. I will happily put you in touch with her for a first hand account.

[Oracle]

I used the term "harem" in the loosest sense. Not just to denote the Royal Harems, but as Zan has explained, the run-of-the-mill collections of woeful women the Ottoman-Turks took along, to help them spread their demon seeds

They were not necessarily the delightful dens of your dreams

The Ottomans were not nomads, you ignorant woman.

So where was their original homeland, from which they began their (nomadic) expansions?

Virtually all peoples were nomadic early in their history, but the Ottomans (and the various subdivisions they absorbed) continued this for longer ...

The Rise of the Ottoman Empire

A group of nomads that lived in the Middle East, known as the Turks, began to form small states during the chaos following the Mongol capture of Baghdad in 1258. The Turks, descendents of earlier Mongol nomads, eventually built up a sizeable force. Interaction with Mongol warriors would likely have given the Turks knowledge of gunpowder. This would have given the Turks, under the rule of a small group of men known as the Ottomans, a clear advantage. With the destruction of the Byzantine city of Constantanople in 1453, the Ottomans created their empire. Under the rule of Suleiman the I, the Ottoman Empire expanded into Europe. The print at the right shows the prominance of artillery in his campaigns. Suleiman used gunpowder heavily to bring about the expansion of the Ottoman empire in the 1500s. It is very possible that Suleiman could have helped to bring the cannon into mainstream uses in Europe because of his extensive campaigns there. In any event, gunpowder made a large impact on the Middle East when it was brought by the Mongol invaders.

http://www.bangorschools.net/hs/SR/Gunp ... 0Page.html

And maybe you'd like to read this:

The Ottoman Turks : nomad kingdom to world empire
by C Max Kortepeter
Type: Book; English
Publisher: Istanbul : Isis Press, 1991.
ISBN: 9754280304 9789754280302

[Tim Drayton]

I used the term "harem" in the loosest sense. Not just to denote the Royal Harems, but as Zan has explained, the run-of-the-mill collections of woeful women the Ottoman-Turks took along, to help them spread their demon seeds

They were not necessarily the delightful dens of your dreams

The Ottomans were not nomads, you ignorant woman.

So where was their original homeland, from which they began their (nomadic) expansions?

Virtually all peoples were nomadic early in their history, but the Ottomans (and the various subdivisions they absorbed) continued this for longer ...

The Rise of the Ottoman Empire

A group of nomads that lived in the Middle East, known as the Turks, began to form small states during the chaos following the Mongol capture of Baghdad in 1258. The Turks, descendents of earlier Mongol nomads, eventually built up a sizeable force. Interaction with Mongol warriors would likely have given the Turks knowledge of gunpowder. This would have given the Turks, under the rule of a small group of men known as the Ottomans, a clear advantage. With the destruction of the Byzantine city of Constantanople in 1453, the Ottomans created their empire. Under the rule of Suleiman the I, the Ottoman Empire expanded into Europe. The print at the right shows the prominance of artillery in his campaigns. Suleiman used gunpowder heavily to bring about the expansion of the Ottoman empire in the 1500s. It is very possible that Suleiman could have helped to bring the cannon into mainstream uses in Europe because of his extensive campaigns there. In any event, gunpowder made a large impact on the Middle East when it was brought by the Mongol invaders.

http://www.bangorschools.net/hs/SR/Gunp ... 0Page.html

You are confusing the Ottomans with the Turks, my dear. Turkish-speaking peoples have at various times in their history been nomadic warriors and have at the same time established great sedentary civilisations, as the architectural wonders of, say, Bukhara bear witness to. You should realise that the Turks converted to Islam at a relatively late historical stage. Over the sweep of time, the vast majority of nomadic Turks have been shamanists or Buddhists, and even those that converted to Islam managed to incorporate features of their pre-Islamic belief systems into their faith and practices - the survivial of the Alevi religion, a kind of synthesis of Islam and ancient Turkish shamanism, in Anatolia despite centuries of persecution bears testament to the enduring strength of these old beliefs. Amongst Alevis, who probably make up 25% of the population of Anatolia there is equality of the sexes. To claim in general terms that nomadic Turks kept harems or suppressed their women is merely to display one's total ignorance of Turkish history and identity.

The first Turks to venture into Anatolia were nomads. However, their progeny went on to establish powerful states, such as the Seljuk and Ottoman Empires. Anatolia at the time was such a melting pot that it is hard to state categorically whether these were Turkish states or not. Certainly a large proportion of the population spoke a Turkic language that was the predecessor of modern standard Turkish. The Ottoman empire became increasinly muticultural as it expanded, and over time the ruling elite became completely divorced from the ordinary people. The Turkish-speaking populace was simply one group of subjects of this empire. The term "Tourkokratia" used by the Greeks to decribe OTTOMAN rule is, for this reason, totally specious and only helps to engender the kind of misunderstanding that one sees in your above posts.

Yes, Ottoman Sultans acquired huge harems of women at their palaces, but their lives were far removed from those of the Turkish-speaking nomads who first migrated to Anatoila centuries earlier and with whom these Sultans, many of whose mothers came from European royal families, shared few if any genes.

Hope this helps to put things in a bit of context.

[Oracle]

I used the term "harem" in the loosest sense. Not just to denote the Royal Harems, but as Zan has explained, the run-of-the-mill collections of woeful women the Ottoman-Turks took along, to help them spread their demon seeds

They were not necessarily the delightful dens of your dreams

The Ottomans were not nomads, you ignorant woman.

So where was their original homeland, from which they began their (nomadic) expansions?

Virtually all peoples were nomadic early in their history, but the Ottomans (and the various subdivisions they absorbed) continued this for longer ...

The Rise of the Ottoman Empire

A group of nomads that lived in the Middle East, known as the Turks, began to form small states during the chaos following the Mongol capture of Baghdad in 1258. The Turks, descendents of earlier Mongol nomads, eventually built up a sizeable force. Interaction with Mongol warriors would likely have given the Turks knowledge of gunpowder. This would have given the Turks, under the rule of a small group of men known as the Ottomans, a clear advantage. With the destruction of the Byzantine city of Constantanople in 1453, the Ottomans created their empire. Under the rule of Suleiman the I, the Ottoman Empire expanded into Europe. The print at the right shows the prominance of artillery in his campaigns. Suleiman used gunpowder heavily to bring about the expansion of the Ottoman empire in the 1500s. It is very possible that Suleiman could have helped to bring the cannon into mainstream uses in Europe because of his extensive campaigns there. In any event, gunpowder made a large impact on the Middle East when it was brought by the Mongol invaders.

http://www.bangorschools.net/hs/SR/Gunp ... 0Page.html

You are confusing the Ottomans with the Turks, my dear. Turkish-speaking peoples have at various times in their history been nomadic warriors and have at the same time established great sedentary civilisations, as the architectural wonders of, say, Bukhara bear witness to. You should realise that the Turks converted to Islam at a relatively late historical stage. Over the sweep of time, the vast majority of nomadic Turks have been shamanists or Buddhists, and even those that converted to Islam managed to incorporate features of their pre-Islamic belief systems into their faith and practices - the survivial of the Alevi religion, a kind of synthesis of Islam and ancient Turkish shamanism, in Anatolia despite centuries of persecution bears testament to the enduring strength of these old beliefs. Amongst Alevis, who probably make up 25% of the population of Anatolia there is equality of the sexes. To claim in general terms that nomadic Turks kept harems or suppressed their women is merely to display one's total ignorance of Turkish history and identity.

The first Turks to venture into Anatolia were nomads. However, their progeny went on to establish powerful states, such as the Seljuk and Ottoman Empires. Anatolia at the time was such a melting pot that it is hard to state categorically whether these were Turkish states or not. Certainly a large proportion of the population spoke a Turkic language that was the predecessor of modern standard Turkish. The Ottoman empire became increasinly muticultural as it expanded, and over time the ruling elite became completely divorced from the ordinary people. The Turkish-speaking populace was simply one group of subjects of this empire. The term "Tourkokratia" used by the Greeks to decribe OTTOMAN rule is, for this reason, totally specious and only helps to engender the kind of misunderstanding that one sees in your above posts.

Yes, Ottoman Sultans acquired huge harems of women at their palaces, but their lives were far removed from those of the Turkish-speaking nomads who first migrated to Anatoila centuries earlier and with whom these Sultans, many of whose mothers came from European royal families, shared few if any genes.

Hope this helps to put things in a bit of context.

You only confirm what I said, but in greater detail. The origins of most of the groups of people were nomadic, and the Ottomans carried on for longer, as you say by absorbing other nomadic groups, far later in history than, say, Europeans.

The Ottoman Turks : nomad kingdom to world empire
by C Max Kortepeter
Type: Book; English
Publisher: Istanbul : Isis Press, 1991.
ISBN: 9754280304 9789754280302