Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Ok. It’s my pleasure.

If you study the way the two Hans operated in their time, you will soon appreciate one simple rule that they applied to grate effect.

If their friends were under the control of their enemy and never mind not take part in the fight, but joined their enemy. The hans had no ill will towards their so called traitor friends, after the war was over, because they appreciated the predicament their friends found themselves in, and their need for self survival and need to feed their families. When the war is over, the so called “traitors” were allowed to join the hans with no ill will. This simple idea is even practiced today in Afghanistan. Never mind any other behaviour, put that against your Hellenist idea of with us or against us and you are in the stone age in civilisation terms.

I don’t know how you can post so much rubbish and keep a straight face… are you a drunkard or under the influence of drugs? Do you ever go back and re-read your nonsense?

[Oracle]

Ok. It’s my pleasure.

If you study the way the two Hans operated in their time, you will soon appreciate one simple rule that they applied to grate effect.

If their friends were under the control of their enemy and never mind not take part in the fight, but joined their enemy. The hans had no ill will towards their so called traitor friends, after the war was over, because they appreciated the predicament their friends found themselves in, and their need for self survival and need to feed their families. When the war is over, the so called “traitors” were allowed to join the hans with no ill will. This simple idea is even practiced today in Afghanistan. Never mind any other behaviour, put that against your Hellenist idea of with us or against us and you are in the stone age in civilisation terms.

I don’t know how you can post so much rubbish and keep a straight face… are you a drunkard or under the influence of drugs? Do you ever go back and re-read your nonsense?

He might be a late developer.... A Genius waiting to flower, relatively speaking!

[YFred]

Ok. It’s my pleasure.

If you study the way the two Hans operated in their time, you will soon appreciate one simple rule that they applied to grate effect.

If their friends were under the control of their enemy and never mind not take part in the fight, but joined their enemy. The hans had no ill will towards their so called traitor friends, after the war was over, because they appreciated the predicament their friends found themselves in, and their need for self survival and need to feed their families. When the war is over, the so called “traitors” were allowed to join the hans with no ill will. This simple idea is even practiced today in Afghanistan. Never mind any other behaviour, put that against your Hellenist idea of with us or against us and you are in the stone age in civilisation terms.

I don’t know how you can post so much rubbish and keep a straight face… are you a drunkard or under the influence of drugs? Do you ever go back and re-read your nonsense?

How typical, out of your depth and immediately revert to type. Personal abuse to bully your opponent. Been there, done it and wore the T-shirt. Start arguing the points my friend otherwise I may start arguing your points for you in the interest of a sensible debate. Otherwise life becomes a broken pencil.
In one of your posts, you said Oracle was witty. I am still waiting for the answer to a question I put to you then. What is my chances on the comedy circuit?

[YFred]

Ok. It’s my pleasure.

If you study the way the two Hans operated in their time, you will soon appreciate one simple rule that they applied to grate effect.

If their friends were under the control of their enemy and never mind not take part in the fight, but joined their enemy. The hans had no ill will towards their so called traitor friends, after the war was over, because they appreciated the predicament their friends found themselves in, and their need for self survival and need to feed their families. When the war is over, the so called “traitors” were allowed to join the hans with no ill will. This simple idea is even practiced today in Afghanistan. Never mind any other behaviour, put that against your Hellenist idea of with us or against us and you are in the stone age in civilisation terms.

I don’t know how you can post so much rubbish and keep a straight face… are you a drunkard or under the influence of drugs? Do you ever go back and re-read your nonsense?

He might be a late developer.... A Genius waiting to flower, relatively speaking!

You may well have a point there. I failed the 11+ exam to enter the Maarif English school, but in true Einstein tradition, did not give up and went to London. Passed 9 GCE O’levels, 3 GCE A'levels and and ended up with a nasty imperialist degree.
You just have no idea how true that statement is.

I now see you in a different light.

[YFred]

Now there is a "nationalistic" report in the best Cypriot paper ever.

Wanted: Greek actor with a conscience
By Makarios Drousiotis

DEMANDS that the recent statements by Turkish actor Attila Olgaç be exploited politically have now become universal. The government has already announced that they will raise the matter with the Permanent Representatives Committee of the Council of Europe and seek to secure Turkey’s condemnation on war crimes. I am afraid that once more we are being guided by emotion at the expense of reason.

For the sake of argument, let us accept the veracity of Olgaç’s claims. Beyond the shock they cause, they add nothing to what we already know. Are not invasion, ethnic cleansing and colonisation war crimes? And if we have not managed to get Turkey condemned of these in the 1970s and ’80s when refugees were still living in tents, can we manage it now after we ourselves let Turkey off the hook with our clumsy handling in 2004?

Turkey’s condemnation in is already in its fourth interstate recourse by Cyprus to the Council of Europe. Yet a few months ago, the member countries of the Council of Europe granted more votes in favour of Turkey becoming a member of the UN Security Council than they did in favour of Austria.

When we refer to human rights, we should be deeply convinced of the justice of those rights, and not use them selectively only when those concern our own community or nation.

In August 1974, three entire villages of Turkish Cypriots were annihilated by EOKA B. How many people know that it was only after the execution of the entire male population of the village of Tochni that the first organised transportation of Turkish Cypriot civilians to the occupied north – the widows and orphans of Tochni – was arranged, for humanitarian reasons? Why has this society covered the murderers only because the exactors spoke Greek and their victims spoke Turkish? Is this not hypocritical?

The list of 500 missing Turkish Cypriots includes the names children as young as three or four years of age. The list published in the official gazette of the government on May 12, 2003. Approximately half were innocent civilians who were abducted and murdered in the period from 1963 to 1967.

Among them are the names of 32 Turkish Cypriots who disappeared in Famagusta between May and June, 1964. These people were hapless citizens who were murdered as reprisals for the deaths of two Greek officers and one Cypriot policeman who entered the Turkish quarter of Famagusta bearing arms and in civilian clothes and who subsequently clashed with Turkish Cypriots.

“No action is known to have been taken to bring these responsible to trial,” wrote the then Secretary General of the United Nations, U Thant, in a report on the facts. “In spite of repeated communications by UNFICYP to authorities at all levels, including a letter to the President to trace the whereabouts or the remains of these persons there has been no progress at all in locating them,” the same report mentions.

One group of these missing people were soaking in a well for 44 years and were found last year in Paralimni, after excavations made by the Investigating Committee on Missing Persons.

Many ask, “Why do you raise the subject of the Turkish Cypriot victims now that it is Turkey who is in the dock as a result of Olgaç’ statements?”

Firstly, in my conscience, all Cypriots are equal – no matter which community they belong to. And secondly, and more substantially, I believe that we will find salvation through catharsis – not in the courtrooms.

If something of value has arisen out of all this, it is the shock to public opinion in Turkey itself. It has suddenly been realised that the “peacekeeping operation” of 1974 was a war, with all the attendant extreme barbarity.

Unless we all experience the shock of the truth, unless we all understand the other person’s pain, we will never find our way to deliverance. We will always remain miserable, always bemoaning our wicked destiny and cursing ‘the foreigners’ for hating and undermining us.

So – Wanted: Greek Actor with a Conscience...

[YFred]

This also makes for a very interesting read.

Education Minister should tell the whole truth
By Loucas Charalambous

EDUCATION MINISTER Andreas Demetriou is a very likeable chap and one might have felt a bit of some sympathy for him after he was targeted by the paranoid campaign mounted by all the island’s pseudo-patriots against his Archbishop Makarios circular.

That said, I find it hard to defend him and I would also have accused him of being ignorant about our history, if I did not know that he mentioned only half the truth in his circular for the sake of incomprehensible political expediency. It is not to his credit that he subsequently tried to take back even half the truth by resorting to ludicrous claims about EOKA B – which have nothing to do with the inter-communal hostilities.

First of all, a self-respecting minister should have called a halt to the idiotic tradition of sending circulars to schools and allowing school-time to be wasted on special events for Makarios’ name-day. This must be the only country in the world which celebrates the name-day of a dead man. It is another illustration of our lunacy as a people: a lunacy that is to blame for a lot of our current woes.

But seeing as the minister decided to say something about Makarios, he should have at least spoken the truth. His assertion that the bloody inter-communal clashes were “instigated by clandestine, extremist, Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot organisations,” was only half the truth. The fact that the minister chose a circular praising Makarios to high heaven to say these things, gives the whole issue a comic dimension. Because the other half of the truth, which he had failed to mention, was that Makarios was the founder and figure-head of the Greek Cypriot ‘extremist’ organisation known as Akritas.

I find it hard to believe that the minister was not aware of this fact. Only three months ago, Christodoulos Christodoulou, the deputy chief of staff of the organisation, in an interview he gave to Simerini (20/10/08), revealed everything.

“It is we who experienced the events, from the leader of the Organisation, the invisible but real leader, Ethnarch Makarios, to its last member…”

He may have been invisible, but he was the real leader of the Akritas Organisation, which, as is clearly stated in its documents, had been set up to dissolve the Republic. For the historical record, and as a tribute the late President Papadopoulos, I feel obliged to mention that Tassos was the author of the notorious ‘Akritas Plan’; at least this is what Glafcos Clerides has said.

I think Christodoulou deserves to be congratulated for providing valuable and trustworthy testimony about the events of 1963. This was as valuable as the testimony given by former police officer Chrysafis Chrysafi, who had heard the interior minister of the time, Polycarpos Yiorkadjis giving orders for the placing of a bomb at the Markos Dracos statue in Nicosia on December 3, 1963.

Mr Demetriou, you should not be afraid to tell the whole truth. The truth should be above expediency and make no allowances for assorted official myths such as the Makarios myth. You should bear in mind that the truth is the most powerful weapon.

It is more powerful than Garoyian, Koutsou and Omirou and more powerful than all the super-patriots and pseudo-patriots who try to hide it. Nothing in this world is more powerful than the truth.

[Bananiot]

Good old Makarios Drousiotis, makes one feel not so bad after all of being a member of the human race.

[YFred]

My sentiments exactly.

[Piratis]

Nothing in this world is more powerful than the truth.

Yes, and the truth is that Cyprus has been denied its freedom and self-determination by foreign invaders, and the only thing that the Cypriots ever fought for and will continue to fight for, is for freedom, democracy and human rights.

There would be no need for EOKA, "Akritas" or anything else, if all these invaders would allow the Cypriot people to have their self-determination and democratically and peacefully decide the destiny of their own island. All conflicts and wars between Cypriots and Turks in Cyprus were started by the Turks, and they come here crying because they had (comparatively few) losses in those conflicts as well, as if we should have just stand there and allow them to kill us and take away our rights without fighting back.

You invade our island, enslave and exploit Cyprus and its people, kill Cypriots by the 10s of thousands, and then you come here to complain because Cypriots fight for their freedom??

You can keep Bananiots as yous slaves. They are always happy to bend and be fucked by you. They are always happy to support your nationalism and expansionism against our island, while they will never dare to support the self-determination rights of the people of this island.

But the rest of us will continue to fight for justice and freedom for our island, and we will NEVER surrender to any foreign invader.

"Τούτος ο λαός, αφέντη μου, δεν ξέρει πολλά λόγια,σωπαίνει, ακούει, κι όσα του λες τα δένει κομπολόγια."

[YFred]

Nothing in this world is more powerful than the truth.

Yes, and the truth is that Cyprus has been denied its freedom and self-determination by foreign invaders, and the only thing that the Cypriots ever fought for and will continue to fight for, is for freedom, democracy and human rights.

There would be no need for EOKA, "Akritas" or anything else, if all these invaders would allow the Cypriot people to have their self-determination and democratically and peacefully decide the destiny of their own island. All conflicts and wars between Cypriots and Turks in Cyprus were started by the Turks, and they come here crying because they had (comparatively few) losses in those conflicts as well, as if we should have just stand there and allow them to kill us and take away our rights without fighting back.

You invade our island, enslave and exploit Cyprus and its people, kill Cypriots by the 10s of thousands, and then you come here to complain because Cypriots fight for their freedom??

You can keep Bananiots as yous slaves. They are always happy to bend and be fucked by you. They are always happy to support your nationalism and expansionism against our island, while they will never dare to support the self-determination rights of the people of this island.

But the rest of us will continue to fight for justice and freedom for our island, and we will NEVER surrender to any foreign invader.

"Τούτος ο λαός, αφέντη μου, δεν ξέρει πολλά λόγια,σωπαίνει, ακούει, κι όσα του λες τα δένει κομπολόγια."

"? Doesn't this population, my master, know a lot of reasons, does be silent, it hears, and that you say to him him it ties up [kompologia]."?

In the interest of fairness. The greek bit translates to the above.
Piratis, please take the points one by one and knock them down. By doing what you did, you accept defeat. If you are going to accept defeat, then please do it graciously.