You really need to get some help about your superiority complex and the way you look down on people.
Let me try and explain yet again, please try to concentrate as this is getting very boring and we are getting absolutely nowhere, also please refrain from just dismissing my concerns and fears as this does not eleviate them it just makes them worse.
It's not an ideology, but it is a way for you to get what you want in the most Democratic way, since anything undemocratic will not be approved by the GC's or the EU, so what choice do you have. I have already invited you tell me if you had other ideas to get what you want without violating anyone’s Democratic rights, and you said nothing. If you do not want 50-50 power, veto power, your own state with full control, then claim your 20 seats in a Unitary Parliament that is based on proportional representation and forget about my plan. I had told you before it was presented, that you had to make hard choices and compromises, but I see that you are not willing to lift a finger to get what you want, because you think you are entitled holding onto the GC's properties. You are going to have to give them up anyway to reach a deal, so why not get what you want also in return.
I said plenty of things but you choose due to your arrogance and I know it all crap to ignore them. I firstly support agreed partition as the only real solution available but I am open minded enough to discuss the possibility of a union if the structure addresses my concerns and allows me an effective say in my future.
Your plan although well written and thought out which I have acknowledged falls short in guaranteeing our effective say in a united Cyprus, I have explained this issue is not negotiable or should be open to manipulation by with GCs to gain full control of the whole island as you have stated before no one side should have sole power as this would be a dictatorship and no good for a united Cyprus.
I again believe you blatantly and knowingly ignore that TCs are willing to give back land so that as many refugees can return as possible the last calculations were 90.000 out of 160.000 will be allowed to return if 8% of the TRNC plus Maraş is returned to the GCs.
As for lifting a finger I have always supported freedom of movement and right to settle where ever one wishes.
The only time you are going to leave the door wide open, is when you invite 200,000 refugee GC's back into the 37% of the north now. At 29% TC state, you will be inviting 100,000 refugee GC's. You only have at most 120,000 True TC's in the north now, so do the math and see what you are doing by wanting to retain the 37% or even the 29%. There is no guarantee, that the additional fake TC's (settlers) will be given a Cypriot citizenships or only a permanent residence permit, which means that they will be able to stay in Cyprus, but they will not be able to vote. (I do have a 5 year plan in my head to get us started and increase the TC's voting numbers, but lets leave that alone for now.)
This where you fall flat on your figures, the return of 8% of land represents 90.000 GC refugees repatriated, that leaves approximately 70.000 possible candidates wanting to reside in the TC state, if half of them returned 35.000 among a TC population of 200.000 for arguements sake (as all the settlers will no be reurned a figure of 42.000 was previously agreed) that would mean a total population of 235.000 in the north state meaning the GC would be roughly 15% of the population, considering they will be scattered over the 29% of the TC state their impact would be minimal. To counter manipulation of the figures there can be a ceiling placed on the total number of GC allowed in the TC state like the deggrogation allowed for Malta, hopefully his will become unused therefore redundent.
You also have to consider, that many TC's will choose to leave the north after a while and move to their old homes in the south or just to another town for jobs or just plain different lifestyle. Just because they have not done so up to now, just because it was not possible even if they wanted, does not mean that they will not. My guess is, as time goes by, certain percentage of TC's will move about the island, leaving you even less to counter the GC's 200,000 numbers in the 37% or the 100,000 GC's in the 29% area.
Going south to TCs is no different from going to live in france or Spain they have that option now yet choose to stay in the TRNC will all its problems. The south carries so many disadvantages for us the biggest one being language and possible discriminaiton Im pretty certain the Gcs feel the same about the north. I cant really see what you suggest happening to be honest.
The only logical thing to do, as I suggested, is to reduce the north state by 50% of what it is today down to 18%-20%. That is plenty of space for 100,000 TC's plus 50,000 legal settlers to live and work. If we make a comparison to Gaza Strip with the Palestinians, 18%-20% of the new TC state will be 5 times larger (land) and have population 10 times less, so stop with excuses about the size of land not being enough. It is more than enough. Plus, the more land you have for the size of your population, the more money you will need to maintain it. Don't expect the Federal Government to come and bail you out every time you have a deficit. Unless any GC's already have a property in the TC's 20%, the rest are not coming to "squash" you. They would rather give their tax dollars to the GC state. They don't trust you any more than you trust them, so don't expect them to come and live with you.
Totally disagree about your demanding we reduce down by 50% it not necessary and the TC state has to have viability and the potential to support itself, you continue to try and cut ıs down to 18% which is getting rather suspiscious. this will never be acceptable to TCs. You may get 25% if it meant more refugees would be repatriated therefore less risk of wanting to live in the Tc state.
Can we agree, that you are not going to prevent the GC's from exercising their voting rights to any office in the State level elections or the Federal level. This is the EU we are talking about. Same goes for freedom of movement. You will not be able to do all the things you voted for in the Annan plan. Do yourself a favour, VP, and forget about the AP, because it is the AP that is distorting your vision to see things clearly, because you start panicking what if this happens, what if that happens and what if the other happens. Democracy is not absolute with guarantees to have it your way at all times, or else it will not be a Democracy. In a Democracy, you have to work at it to get what you want. Don't confuse Democracy with Dictatorship what you had with Denktash or the puppet “government” what you have in the north now. Time for you to move into the 21st century
As I said above if there is a levelplaying field then those who wish to move and reside in the other state should be allowed to and have voting rights but I still support the derogration on the number of Gcs allowed to live in the TC state doue to our size and vunerability to GC explotiation. Please refrain from running us down into the ground it does not help matters in the slightest and detracts from any positive debate.
The GCs should also think about moving into the 21st century we have the excuse of being isolated whats theirs??? Place a saddle on a donkey doesnt make it a race horse, I love this saying as it suits the GCs down to the ground.
Think of the analogy I gave you before. Democracy is like the shifting Sand Dunes that changes the political landscape depending how hard the wind blows and from which direction. Nothing is absolute, but you can help yourself by being smart in how you do things, and by wanting to keep 29% for a TC state, you are already inviting 100,000 GC's refugees back to their homes, and by doing this, you have already started the sand storm to change the political landscape. This is why you need to be in the 20% TC state with the bare minimum number of GC's in it to have what you want. You want to take the risk with the 200,000 GC's in the 37% TC state, be my guess. You will turn over your 100% control of the upper house and the State senate to be shared with the GC's, or you can be smart and keep it all for yourself in a 20% TC state.
I prefer the analogy that democracy is the sound foundations that do not waver in times of turmoil, if democracy is set in sands dunes and a constant changing then we are all doomed to inconsistent and unsafe foundations for building a united Cyprus.
I'm glad you have finally realised that you will not be able to prevent the GC's from voting in a TC state, or limit their numbers in moving to the TC state. The larger the TC state, the larger amount of GC's will be in the TC state, and the smaller the TC state, the less number of GC's will be in your state.
I have put my opinions forward on this issue above. Freedom of movement and right to vote YES no upper limit of GCs in TC state (Malta) NO.
But I will have to ask you few questions here. If you think 170,000 TC's and settlers are going to be squeezed in a 20% TC state, then surely there won't be any more room left for any GC's to come and swamp you, specially if you limit the amount of development growth of housing by local ordinances, you will have the state predominantly TC. You are yet to show me, where these 200,000 non refugee GC's are going to come from to flood your state. Until you can answer this question, you are just making a lot of hot air. From where will these GC's come from to move into your state for you to worry about the upper 5 seats. You need to answer this question, or else your worrying is just an empty excuse.
As I have shown above the potential into a 29% TC state will be around 70.000 GCs, if the Tc state is reduced even further many more Tcs will remain in the GC state making the smaller TC state even more vunerable to manipulation and expoitation to take over and total control of the whole island.
The hot air is arising from your arse as you do not want to see the risk which is far to great to accept. 29-25% is about as small as TCs will accept allowing for 35.000 GCs to settle in the TC state. A smaller state of 18% will mena less TCs vs a larger GC population that can if desired relocate to gain power, please do not dismiss this fact as we know GCs will stop at nothing to take full control of the whole island.
I also like to know, why you were not concern about litigations that would be made in the EU by the GC's to correct all the Undemocratic advantages given to the TC's by the Annan Plan, as you are now with the suggestion of limiting the freedom of movement of the GC's by 18%, which you voted for it. The same provisions were in the AP along with dozens of other Undemocratic and Human Rights violation. Why were you not concerned back then, that the EU will eventually change all these undemocratic benefits that the TC's received at the expense of the GC's.? Why are you so concerned now, VP.? I really need to know this.
The derrogations would be accepted by all parties from the outset so not litigations would be allowed by the EU so if the GCs attempted yet again (Akritas) to go back on their signature that would prove the bad intentions of the GCs.
TC's wanting partnership is something I do not understand what that really means. What does partnership means when you have 80%-20% population difference, economy 25Billion vs. 2Billion (with Turkey's help), land in the north belonging to 80% by the GC's, the RoC holding all the legal cards in the world and recognition as well as being in the EU and also have a veto over the "trnc" and Turkey ever getting into the EU. If I were to try and think what kind of a partnership that would make if it was a business merger between the RoC and the "trnc", the "trnc" will barely make it as a very junior silent, silent, silent partner against the RoC, given the above criteria. You will be better of in a Federated state solution with a north and south states. You just have to work hard to maintain those powers in the upper house and the State senate, so welcome to True Democracy.!
You need my 20% to make a whole without it youd be accepting partition and denial that you want unification. As for the imbalance of wealth yours is partly mine as you have solely enjoyed and exploited the "RoC" for the past 49 years. The fact that one partner maybe shorter in height does not them any less a partner, they have just as much right as the partner who is taller.
Let me finally answer your other question, which is, anything less than 18%, then you want to be independent.! Well, if you can get it, that's one option, but the GC's are not about to kiss off 18% of their country. You may not want your other 82%, but I doubt very much that they will let their 18% go. If push came to shove and they did agree to something on a agreed partition, you'll be lucky if you can get less than 10% of the north, if that. Many TC's will end up staying on the GC side as a result because their homes and fields will be there, rather than move to the north's 10%. You will still be better off than the Palestinians in the Gaza strip by far, but how will you benefit really. You will not be able to run it as a country, so, you will become a province of Turkey and that will be the end of your dreams of the TC's having a control of their own destiny, as you have been asking from the RoC. So my recommendation is, keep Cyprus in one piece and have your own state at 18%-20% and have full access of the whole island and work with everyone else to make your state and country prosper in every way. You really do not have too many options as you think you have. Here is something for you to do, that might help you see my plan more clearly. Imagine there is no Turkish Troops on the island anymore. Which of the options would you choose for the TC community. My plan or partition at best 10% of land and a province of Turkey, because there is no way that Turkey will allow the north 10% to become an independent country, because she will need that piece of land to negotiate with the RoC to let her into the EU club by not using her veto power in exchange, so forget ever about becoming an independent state and all the dreams that goes with it.
If we are offered 18% we will ask for an independent state, that would be our condition the difference to 29% is why we will tollerate a partnership otherwise the other option you feel we do not have is to remain as we are and push for recognition of 37%, whether we get it or not is another matter we are willing to wait as we in this for long haul. If the GCs reject the next plan this will also work in our favor lets see whether they will have the vision and flexibility to unite the island, Im not holding my breath.
10% is a joke wont even go there.
