skipper wrote:Kikapu,
You've obviously put a lot of effort into thinking this through some of the thinking seems very similar to the Annan plan. For example in the last plan around 50% of displached GCs (90,000) would be able to return home under the GC state (28.6% area for TC state) and GCs returning under the TC state would have a transitional 18% limit of the GC population (33,000 assuming TC state had a total population of 180,000 including GCs) also there where a number of villages (including all of the all GC villages in karpaz) which did not count in that 18% (as far as I recall) that would basically be autonomous from the state government in education, cuture, etc with the same provisions for certain TC villages in the GC state.
The federal state had upper and lower houses with the lower house seats divided by federal states population and the upper house GC/TC 50/50 plus atleast one seat each for each latins, armenians, maronites. Both houses pass legislation with simple majority with the upper (senate) requiring an additional atleast 25% GC/TC votes to pass through. This would allow for safeguards plus allow co-operation between say AKEL + CTP. Every citizen would vote for where they reside except for the upper house where GC votes and TC votes would go to the the appropiate community representatives.
The Annan plan had a "presidential council" to resolve deadlocks which is significantly different to your proposal though.
Also there are no refugees in cyprus since you cant be a refugee in your own country according to the UN the definition is internally displaced people.
You also say 200,000 as a number although I'm sure there was a discussion here where it was actually 180,000 (or was it 160,000?).
You also assume that everyone who can go back would go back. For example how many children of the displaced (that are counted as refugees) are willing to leave their jobs and homes to reside in the TC state? And since refugee status is passed down I read that refugees will make up the majority of GCs within a generation.
We also dont know how many originally displaced people have left cyprus with no intention of returning even if there is a settlement.
Then there are TCs communities that came north from different places in the south but want to be relocated as a community in the new TC state rather than go back south.
If these statistics could be attained we could get a much better idea of what kind of compromises could be made although last time I suggested this I had a barrage of comments calling me a thief etc even though I am from the north and have n't recieved any GC land so who gets to go back does n't affect me.
Skipper,
The AP failed primarily because it was going to be a Confederation where the TC State would be owned by the TC's and the GC state would be owned by the GC's. Within this ownership, each state would then run their own state as they wished and anyone who was not a TC or a GC, will be seen as a "foreigner" without rights to vote in the state they lived in, but as you correctly stated, that they will be able to live in one state but can only vote in another state of their community, since they will not be considered "citizens" of the state they lived in, despite owning property, paying taxes and generational history of their ancestors on that land. Further more, each Confederate state could have held an referendum at later stage voted by only "citizens" of that state to secede from the Union and there would be nothing to stop it from going through, since GC's in a TC state would not be able to vote against such a move. The AP did not unite Cypriots but rather it was designed to keep the ethnic communities apart long enough until one of the states would break away and become independent.
The Federation I described is totally different from the AP and "BBF" is about Federation and not what AP was trying to do. The AP gave seats allocated to the TC's, the GC's and the Latin, Armenian and Maronite in the Upper House, where as, the Federation allocates seats to each state, and through Democratic elections, these seats are filled, regardless who is winning those seats. Naturally, if the overwhelming majority in the TC state are TC's, then they will fill most of the Lower House seats and all of the Upper House seats themselves. The reason why some Lower House seats may be filled by the GC's, is because these seats will be elected in districts, and if there are equal number of TC's and GC's living in the same district, then that seat is up for grabs by a candidate who gets the most votes, regardless of their ethnicity. Since the Upper House seats (Senators) are chosen state wide and the overwhelming majority are TC's, then TC's will fill those seats every time Democratically chosen by those living in that state.
Lets just say that the TC state will have 200,000 TC's and 100,000 GC's. The other 100,000 GC's from the original displaced people and their descendants from the north are relocated on land that is given back and is now part of the GC state. The remaining 100,000 GC can continue to live in their properties in the TC state and continue to vote in local and Federal elections without changing the outcome of the results in the Lower and Upper House. I said that there would be 50 seats in the Lower House in the example that I gave based on 1,000,000 (1 million) Cypriots on the island with 200,000 TC citizens in the north (TC's state) and 800,000 GC citizens in the south (GC state), which gives 40 seats to the south and 10 seats to the north. But if 100,000 GC's are relocated to their homes in the TC state, then the number of Lower House seats will change from 10 to 15 seats and the seats in the GC state will be reduced from 40 seats to 35 seats. So the north will gain seats in the Lower House, but with that many GC's in the north, it is possible that those seats will go to the GC's, because now there will be 15 districts and not 10 anymore where these districts may well be GC's in majority. It really does not change the dynamics at all in the Lower House. All that is done, is that 5 extra seats held by the GC's in the south has now moved to the north in the Lower House. The TC's will still have 2:1 majority in the north TC state to continue to keep the Upper seats in the hands of the TC's. If the north gave more land back to the GC's that another 50,000 GC's were located on land that will be part of the GC state, even though it may be on a seperate parcel of land that does not physically touch the GC state, then that ratio will be 4:1, which would mean 2-3 less seats in the Lower House for the TC state, but a huge TC numbers to maintain the 5 seats in the Upper House in the hands of the TC's which is where it counts to maintain the 50% power.
The above scenario will allow every Cypriot citizen to vote for whom they choose in the state that they live in without racist restrictions what percentage of GC's can live in the north state, and prevent them from voting in a state where they pay their taxes, because if that were to be the case, then you are going to have a revolt by the GC's in the north state as the Americans did with the "Boston Tea Party" where they were paying taxes to the British but were not able to vote in Britain, hence the term
"No Taxation without Representation". That's what the AP had in mind, a Racist laws to overcome some people not being allowed to vote where they lived. No wonder the AP did not go through.
I share with you and VP and many other GC's that not all of the displaced GC's will move back to the north, whether on properties that will be given back that will be part of the GC state, or to their properties that will be in the TC state. This in fact makes everything less confusing, but in order to have a balanced system where every one's Democratic and Human Rights are respected, even if all 200,000 GC's were to move back to their land in the north, the TC's will be able to keep the Upper House in their hand, providing enough land is given back to the GC's. If no land is given back and land sizes are kept as they are today, then you are looking at a potential situation where the Ratio between the GC's and the TC's in the TC state in the north to being 1:1 ratio, and then every election will be a toss up as to who will control the Upper House. This is not what the TC's want, and you will not be able to prevent the GC's from going to their properties if they wished to, because as citizens of Cyprus, you cannot restrict any one's freedom of movement or restrict their Democratic Rights to vote. The TC's can also choose to move to their properties in the south or remain in the TC state in the north. It will be up to them. They can sell or rent their properties to others, or just keep them.
You could of course offer the GC's living in the TC state from paying any taxes at all in the TC state if they volunteered not to vote at all in the north . I do not know if that can be arranged legally, but think of the huge loss of revenue for the TC state by not being able to collect one single penny of taxes from the GC's living in the north state while they use all the services provided by that state paid by the TC taxpayers. You might even get half of the whole islands' GC's moving to the TC state in the north.! Lets face it, "Money talks and BS walks.".!