Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Both Cypriot communities forget parts of the history. In 1956 and 1957, EOKA killed quite a few Turkish Cypriots (because they worked for the colonial administration). Unsurprisingly, the Turkish Cypriots began to take this personally. And, incidentally, when EOKA began, they bombed the house of a Turkish Cypriot who worked for the colonial administration, but the Turkish Cypriots didn't respond. But after lots of EOKA murders of Turkish Cypriots, the Turkish Cypriots began to feel like they were targets of EOKA, just like the British. Then they began to accept TMT.

Those people chose to join the Colonialists in order to fight EOKA. EOKA targeted the British colonialists, and that includes those who helped them. They targeted a lot of Greek Cypriots as well for the same reason. What does that mean? That the GC community was a target of EOKA?

No, but the Greek Cypriot left-wing community was.

And don't worry, we don't forget anything.

So you remembered it, but ignored it? Look, EOKA couldn't repeatedly kill Turkish Cypriots over two years and then be surprised when TMT fought back. You can't say, "as long as you let us do whatever we want, we won't kill you. And if you let us do whatever we want, but get a job in the police, preventing everything from theft to murder, we'll still kill you. But otherwise, please, feel free.'

In fact I have a video for that as well. Note how Dektash admits that they joined the colonialists to fight against EOKA. So it was their choice to join the British and attack us, and not our choice to attack them. We had no reason to attack TCs as a community, and nothing to gain from doing so.



And since we are at it, here is your friend Boyd, going to Ankara and proposing partition of Cyprus, all this before any inter-communal conflict started:

Well, as I'm an anti-imperialist, the Secretary of State for the Colonies was hardly my natural ally, was he? I'm against partition, too, so, it was hardly surprising he was for it, was it? But that doesn't mean his statement was untrue. See the logic and tactics the peacekeeper credited Greek Cypriot nationalist extremists with.

I didn't ignore anything, I was the one who posted that video on youtube long time ago, and I posted it several times here as well.

Dektash himself admits that the TCs joined the British because they were against EOKA. So don't tell me they joined the British to "prevent theft"

[Snad]

Insan

Thank you very much for the links they make very intersting reading.

I am now leaving this alien (to me) part of the forum and leave you to get on with you to get on with your arguing

[Morphou]

Zan,

my friend I wouldn't take ' David Carter ' seriously. After all he has strong links to the turkish occuppied forces in Cyprus as well as to the Denktash family......here is a 'nice' photo

How about this one: http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cypru ... anted.html[/quote]

[samarkeolog]

What I am saying is clear: A person with language X and religion Z can not be of the same Ethnicity as as a person with language Y and religion N. Not in Cyprus, not anywhere. (unless one of the two assimilates into the other)

Yes, nationalists prefer assimilation or exclusion; but there are Creole cultures and hybrid ethnic groups.

Beyond that if you want to believe the imaginary theories of Boyd, or even create some more of your own, go ahead.

What about the theories of the UN peacekeeper?

there was no EOKA in 1963

Yeah, sorry, I made a point of writing Greek Cypriot nationalist extremists to include EOKA and Akritas, but I forgot once. But Akritas had the same ideologies and the same ideologists as EOKA. Was Akritas any more different from EOKA than TMT was from Volkan?

I'm not blaming Greeks. But I'm not blaming Turks either. I'm blaming the nationalist extremists and foreign imperialists who destroyed the country.

So are you labeling almost every Cypriot a "nationalist extremist" because we wanted our freedom and self-determination and we fought for it ?

I say, I'm not blaming most Cypriots, I'm blaming a small minority of extremists. You say, I am blaming most Cypriots... Most Cypriots did not want to burn down coffeeshops, or homes, or villages, or to make other Cypriots refugees. Most Cypriots did not want to attack or murder other Cypriots. Only a small minority did. They were extremists. They destroyed the country with the help of foreign imperialists.

Are you going to try to accuse me of blaming most Cypriots again? The only way you could do that would be to tell me that most Cypriots wanted those things to happen. If that were true, then yes, I would blame most Cypriots; but as far as I know, that wasn't true. Are you telling me that most Cypriots wanted to terrorise and murder and ethnically cleanse? If not, please, stop telling me that I'm blaming most Cypriots.

[samarkeolog]

Dektash himself admits that the TCs joined the British because they were against EOKA. So don't tell me they joined the British to "prevent theft"

Yes, the British employed mostly Turkish Cypriots, not Greek Cypriots, in the auxiliary police, but only because EOKA created 'a hell of terrorism for liberty', which prevented effective policing with Greek Cypriot staff.

Still, there were Greek Cypriot police and Turkish Cypriot police, and the Greek Cypriot police were killed by EOKA the same as the Turkish Cypriot police. And you're assuming that every single Turkish Cypriot police officer killed by EOKA was an auxiliary police officer who had joined the auxiliary police to fight EOKA.

But some of them were in the normal police, and some of them would have been in the police since before EOKA was even created! They didn't join the auxiliary police to fight EOKA. They joined the normal police, yes, to prevent theft and murder, or just to earn money to support their family; but not to fight EOKA. They didn't deserve to die.

And the Greek Cypriot police killed by EOKA, again, Greek Cypriots in the normal police, Greek Cypriots who had joined the normal police to prevent crime or to feed their families, they didn't deserve to die, either.

[Piratis]

What I am saying is clear: A person with language X and religion Z can not be of the same Ethnicity as as a person with language Y and religion N. Not in Cyprus, not anywhere. (unless one of the two assimilates into the other)

Yes, nationalists prefer assimilation or exclusion; but there are Creole cultures and hybrid ethnic groups.

In our case non of what you said applied. What we wanted is our freedom and self-determination and we were forced to fight for it because the imperialists wouldn't give our rights after we have been asking for them for decades. Beyond that, the TC minority could choose for themselves if they wanted to be the same with us or different. Up to them.

Beyond that if you want to believe the imaginary theories of Boyd, or even create some more of your own, go ahead.

What about the theories of the UN peacekeeper?

Stick to the facts. You run out of facts to support your claims and now you employ theories which were made for 63 to explain 58

there was no EOKA in 1963

Yeah, sorry, I made a point of writing Greek Cypriot nationalist extremists to include EOKA and Akritas, but I forgot once. But Akritas had the same ideologies and the same ideologists as EOKA. Was Akritas any more different from EOKA than TMT was from Volkan?

I'm not blaming Greeks. But I'm not blaming Turks either. I'm blaming the nationalist extremists and foreign imperialists who destroyed the country.

So are you labeling almost every Cypriot a "nationalist extremist" because we wanted our freedom and self-determination and we fought for it ?

I say, I'm not blaming most Cypriots, I'm blaming a small minority of extremists. You say, I am blaming most Cypriots... Most Cypriots did not want to burn down coffeeshops, or homes, or villages, or to make other Cypriots refugees. Most Cypriots did not want to attack or murder other Cypriots. Only a small minority did. They were extremists. They destroyed the country with the help of foreign imperialists.

Are you going to try to accuse me of blaming most Cypriots again? The only way you could do that would be to tell me that most Cypriots wanted those things to happen. If that were true, then yes, I would blame most Cypriots; but as far as I know, that wasn't true. Are you telling me that most Cypriots wanted to terrorise and murder and ethnically cleanse? If not, please, stop telling me that I'm blaming most Cypriots.

[/quote]

Most Cypriots wanted what EOKA (1955-59) wanted. So it is one and the same. Both the majority of Cypriots and EOKA wanted the self-determination of Cyprus and union with Greece and were ready to fight (this means kill) those who denied to us our freedom and self-determination, be it British or those who collaborated with them for this purpose. Neither the majority of Cypriots nor EOKA wanted any refugees, burned villages or anything else you falsely accuse them. EOKA was forced to fight the TCs only after TCs attacked us.

You can't separate EOKA from the general population because EOKA was supported by the general population. EOKA were our fighters. So if you want blame EOKA then you have to blame all of us, bar the ones who collaborated with the Imperialists.
If during that time some individuals within EOKA used their position for actions beyond their duty, then blame those individuals nor our whole EOKA freedom fighters who, I repeat, had the support of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

What happened in 1955 was a revolution of the Cypriot people against the foreign colonialists.

This revolution happened only after our calls for freedom and self-determination were being refused to us for many decades.

Our revolutionaries had the support of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

The aim of the revolution: freedom, self-determination and union with Greece, had the support of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

This doesn't mean it had the support of the 100% of people. There are always some minorities which do not support a revolution. (e.g. the "Loyalists" in the American Revolution)

A Revolutions are violent and people die.

During Revolution there is anarchy and some individuals might use that anarchy to settle different kind of accounts.

So, do you recognize the right of Cypriot people for self-determination and the right from union with Greece if this was the democratically expressed wish of the majority of Cypriots? Yes or NO?

Do you recognize the right of the Cypriot to revolt and start an armed struggle after the above rights have been refused to us for decades? YES or NO?

Also in an earlier post I asked you to tell me the difference between the three biggest Greek islands: Cyprus, Crete and Rhodes, and why Crete and Rhodes should be part of the Greek Republic and Cyprus should have not been allowed back in the 50s or even earlier. (if that is is what you think) You didn't reply to this question.

[Piratis]

By the way, as I told you earlier, if you are such an anti-nationalist then start with your own nation. Split your own nation into a 1000 pieces so it will not have the power to terrorize others anymore, and then come to accuse us of nationalism because we fought the colonialists and those who collaborated with them because we wanted our freedom and to unify our nation.

By the way, Oracle said you are doing some kind of research. What is that research about?

[Oracle]

... Akritas had the same ideologies and the same ideologists as EOKA. Was Akritas any more different from EOKA than TMT was from Volkan?

Now I'm confused again.

We have ample proof for EOKA; what proof do you have for "Akritas" that you know so much about its ideologies? ... Please elucidate on the ideology.

[Piratis]

Dektash himself admits that the TCs joined the British because they were against EOKA. So don't tell me they joined the British to "prevent theft"

Yes, the British employed mostly Turkish Cypriots, not Greek Cypriots, in the auxiliary police, but only because EOKA created 'a hell of terrorism for liberty', which prevented effective policing with Greek Cypriot staff.

Still, there were Greek Cypriot police and Turkish Cypriot police, and the Greek Cypriot police were killed by EOKA the same as the Turkish Cypriot police. And you're assuming that every single Turkish Cypriot police officer killed by EOKA was an auxiliary police officer who had joined the auxiliary police to fight EOKA.

But some of them were in the normal police, and some of them would have been in the police since before EOKA was even created! They didn't join the auxiliary police to fight EOKA. They joined the normal police, yes, to prevent theft and murder, or just to earn money to support their family; but not to fight EOKA. They didn't deserve to die.

And the Greek Cypriot police killed by EOKA, again, Greek Cypriots in the normal police, Greek Cypriots who had joined the normal police to prevent crime or to feed their families, they didn't deserve to die, either.

Who created a "hell of a terrorism" were the British colonialists who insisted on imposing their rule using terror over the Cypriot people, instead of packing up and leaving form our island as we demanded.

As I said earlier it was a revolution and the Colonialists along with their forces were the enemy of our revolution. It was their choice to continue imposing their rule over us. They should have just packed up and leaved the moment we asked.

By the way "Mr. Communist anti-Imperialist" what do you have to say about the Vietcong? I am sure the communist guerrilla fighters contacted their struggle in a perfect way, unlike EOKA, right?

[halil]

Zan,

my friend I wouldn't take ' David Carter ' seriously. After all he has strong links to the turkish occuppied forces in Cyprus as well as to the Denktash family......here is a 'nice' photo

How about this one: http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cypru ... anted.html

[/quote]

Morphou ,
those people when they were in duty in Cyprus ,they were talking with everybody . They were talking with ordinary citizens in the streets ,shop owners ,civil organisations also with top levels army officers and government peoples from both sides .
few days ago Mr Downer also visited Denktash . These are all part of the their jobs .Those pictures does not proof anything or does not stop peoples saying truths or making their comments .

If it was like that those peoples from UN must not t5alk with GC's national guard officers too . İs it right ... No....

truth always hurts !