Cyprus-Forum.com

[doesntmatter]

But just because you feel Greek, it doesn't mean other Cypriots do or are.

The fact is however that the vast majority of Cypriots feel and are Greeks. The fact that there are small minorities of non-Greeks in Cyprus doesn't make Cyprus any less Greek. There are minorities of non Greeks in Athens as well. Similarly there are minorities of non English in London. Minorities of different ethnic groups exist just about everywhere.

And actually, before they started "cleaning" the dialect to bring it closer to Athenian Greek, Gybriaga was probably at least as far away from Ellinika as Portuguese is from Spanish. Now Bafiote, that is a dialect - of Gybriaga!

On the contrary. Early on the dialect of Cyprus was almost exactly the same as the dialect in Arcadia in Peloponnese. The dialect was called Arcado-Cypriot. In fact the heavy Cypriot dialect as still spoken by some older people is much closer to ancient Greek than the Athenian dialect. This is because we were far from the center, and language developed much slower here. The same happened with many other Greek islands and territories which were far and/or isolated from Athens.

Also you mistakenly talk about "Ellinika" as being one dialect, and "Gybriaga" as being another. "Ellinika" (Greek) is the language, not a dialect. And within Greek there are many dialects, not just 2. If you go to Crete for example and you talk to some old people there, you will see that their dialect is much more similar to the dialect of Cyprus, than the dialect of Athens.

So instead of assuming things maybe you should learn a thing or two before talking about the topic. Here is something to start:

http://www.benjamins.com/jbp/series/JGL/4/art/0003a.pdf
(this is just a result in the first page of Google (after wikipedia) when searching for Greek Dialects)

TCs, please take note of this.

[doesntmatter]

Just reat the Annan plan, drafted by an English man (a Lord!) and what Cypriots were asked to accept regarding Britian's bases as part of their collective future.

Proves my point about there being no unbiased history. Unless I "reat" Nikitas incorrectly, he takes there to be bias on an actual, historical document put forward by the UN, that most neutral of organisations!

And that all 9,500 pages was planned and written by a single person.

[Piratis]

But just because you feel Greek, it doesn't mean other Cypriots do or are.

The fact is however that the vast majority of Cypriots feel and are Greeks. The fact that there are small minorities of non-Greeks in Cyprus doesn't make Cyprus any less Greek. There are minorities of non Greeks in Athens as well. Similarly there are minorities of non English in London. Minorities of different ethnic groups exist just about everywhere.

So Greek Cypriots who consider themselves Greek Cypriots rather than Cypriot Greeks are a small minority? Either you misunderstood the people I was saying felt themselves to be Cypriot - I was referring to the people everyone including the state refers to as Cypriot, not the Sri Lankans or the Philippinos; or you confused Greek Cypriots who define themselves as Cypriot rather than Greek with first-generation immigrants. Either way...

"Cypriot" refers to the locality. The same as "Cretan" or "Athenian". "Greek" refers to the ethnicity. "Cypriot Greek" or "Greek Cypriot" is the same thing. The vast majority of Cypriots are and feel Greek. Sri Lankans or Philippines are neither Greek or Cypriot.

And actually, before they started "cleaning" the dialect to bring it closer to Athenian Greek, Gybriaga was probably at least as far away from Ellinika as Portuguese is from Spanish. Now Bafiote, that is a dialect - of Gybriaga!

On the contrary. Early on the dialect of Cyprus was almost exactly the same as the dialect in Arcadia in Peloponnese. The dialect was called Arcado-Cypriot. In fact the heavy Cypriot dialect as still spoken by some older people is much closer to ancient Greek than the Athenian dialect.

Yeah, I've heard that, although I have heard Greek-language teachers dispute it. But I didn't say that Gybriaga was further from ancient Greek than Athenian. I said that Gybriaga was very different from Athenian, especially after they "cleaned" it.

Not any more different than other Greek dialects between them. And not any more different than dialects of other languages are between them.
Also nobody "cleaned" it. Cypriot Greek is only a spoken dialect. You can not write it. As more and more people became literate the "standard" Greek inevitably became more popular.

This is because we were far from the center, and language developed much slower here. The same happened with many other Greek islands and territories which were far and/or isolated from Athens.

So, you agree with what I said in the first place.

That the Athenian dialect is as different from the Cypriot dialect (and therefore the Cretan, Rhodian etc dialects) as is Portuguese from Spanish? No, I don't agree. Your claim is wrong. You should have look at the link I gave to you earlier.

Also you mistakenly talk about "Ellinika" as being one dialect, and "Gybriaga" as being another. "Ellinika" (Greek) is the language, not a dialect. And within Greek there are many dialects, not just 2. If you go to Crete for example and you talk to some old people there, you will see that their dialect is much more similar to the dialect of Cyprus, than the dialect of Athens.

Sorry, having specified Athenian Greek once already in the sentence, I just wrote Ellinika to be quick. If we talked about English, unless we specified that we were talking about Cornish, or Geordie, or Glaswegian, we would be talking about "standard", "Queen's" English; we're always talking about one dialect or another, because the "standard" form is just the dialect spoken by the most powerful people. I took courses in "Greek" in Cyprus from a Cretan, and I was still taught Athenian.

You were not taught Athenian. You were taught that "standard Greek". Similarly when I took a course of English I was taught the "standard English". This doesn't mean that the other dialects of English are not English, and that the people that speak those other dialects are not English.

[Snad]

Guys I don't see many links being posted

I don't mean to be a ball breaker but I asked for unbiased links not arguing.

Please help a Brit who wants to learn something and you are the most qualified people to help I think Or maybe not??

[doesntmatter]

I have never before ventured into this part of the forum before, as the Cyprus problem is for Cypriots IMHO

Could any of you give me a link to UNBIASED opinions on how the UK was involved in your trouble?

I really do mean unbiased as I don't want to spend time reading propaganda.

Some may think this is a strange request, but I would just like to find out how my homeland was involved, as Cyprus is now my home and has been for the last four years.


TIA

According to Greeks and GCs the UK and the USA were/are the trouble with their "divide and rule policies".

I suggest that you read anything and everything you can find and make your own mind up.

THIS SITE contains 399 pages of notes on meetings and faxes between all parties concerned and will give you a fairly good idea.

[samarkeolog]

Guys I don't see many links being posted

I don't mean to be a ball breaker but I asked for unbiased links not arguing.

Please help a Brit who wants to learn something and you are the most qualified people to help I think Or maybe not??

The problem is, the best site there is, cyprus-conflict.net, is having a little episode, so you can't read that very easily/well. You can still see at least some of it via web.archive.org - try http://web.archive.org/web/*/cyprus-conflict.net... You could try the Guardian and Times' websites. Some of their more wide-ranging stories can give a good feeling for certain aspects of the problem(s).

[insan]

I have never before ventured into this part of the forum before, as the Cyprus problem is for Cypriots IMHO

Could any of you give me a link to UNBIASED opinions on how the UK was involved in your trouble?

I really do mean unbiased as I don't want to spend time reading propaganda.

Some may think this is a strange request, but I would just like to find out how my homeland was involved, as Cyprus is now my home and has been for the last four years.


TIA

Perry Anderson wrote a good review of the development of the disaster, although he does call it a Greek island, which it isn't; like the language, it's Cypriot.

Hello, Samarkeolog.
Thx for the link. I liked the way Perry Anderson put forward the events and the facts in correlation to other events occuring in some other places of Earth. Just learned that the strong leftist notion of GC left has a perfect correlation with the then leftist movement in Greece. Thx a lot. Do u have the links of any other sources regarding Cyprus problem?

Cheers

[samarkeolog]

I knew I remembered something like this. Rebecca Bryant noted:

It is possible, in fact, that Cypriot Greek would have been considered diffferent enough from dhimotiki in the nineteenth century for it to have been classified a separate language, perhaps comparable to the differences between Spanish and Portuguese. With the spread of education and electronic media, Cypriot Greek has been modified so that it is now (relatively unambiguously) classified as a dialect.

[samarkeolog]

I knew I remembered something like this. Rebecca Bryant noted:

It is possible, in fact, that Cypriot Greek would have been considered diffferent enough from dhimotiki in the nineteenth century for it to have been classified a separate language, perhaps comparable to the differences between Spanish and Portuguese. With the spread of education and electronic media, Cypriot Greek has been modified so that it is now (relatively unambiguously) classified as a dialect.

That note (on page 276) is attached to the line (on page 34) that 'the Cypriot form of Greek was so different as to seem incomprehensible even to dhimotiki speakers'.

[Piratis]

I knew I remembered something like this. Rebecca Bryant noted:

It is possible, in fact, that Cypriot Greek would have been considered diffferent enough from dhimotiki in the nineteenth century for it to have been classified a separate language, perhaps comparable to the differences between Spanish and Portuguese. With the spread of education and electronic media, Cypriot Greek has been modified so that it is now (relatively unambiguously) classified as a dialect.

The person who wrote this is not a linguist and the whole book as well as this particular comment is politically motivated.

She just makes that absurd comment without providing any support.

Did you read the article I gave to you? Here it is again:
http://www.benjamins.com/jbp/series/JGL/4/art/0003a.pdf

It is from a (non-Greek) linguist who uses a vast amount of supporting material to support his work. Most importantly the document is scientific and not politically motivated, and it was not created in relation to the Cyprus Problem.

samarkeolog, is finding the truth your aim, or you have another aim which you are trying to support?