Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

http://www.prio.no/upload/Report-Histor ... %20low.pdf

Highly recommended for Cypriots to read. Hope no one labels him as another paid or sold GC.

[zan]

We could bet on who is going o be the first....

[insan]

We could bet on who is going o be the first....

I sensed a great change in .... heart which directly affects the mentality of ..... so i can't bet. It seems Neo did a good job.

[kurupetos]

Vehbi Serter, author and co-author of two of the three major books discussed, was an active member of TMT and subsequently member of the nationalist right-wing party UBP (National Unity Party).

A very interesting book and I hope the next generation of TCs will be less ill informed than their ancestors.

[Piratis]

In our books history starts from the beginning. Every Cypriot student is taught about the 9000 years of history in Cyprus, and about places like Chirokitia, and field trips are made there. No part of our history is ignored or diminished.

History for which we have written records (which separates history from pre-history) does indeed start at about the same time that the first Greeks came to Cyprus, and the Cypriot-syllabary (and latter the Greek Alphabet, also possibly created in Cyprus) was created to write Greek. So inevitably most things we know about our history start from there.

The report from Papadakis is not about finding the true historical facts, just how the "other" side is presented in the books of the "other" community. What he doesn't emphasize is that in our books the Turkish Cypriots are not presented anywhere as negatively as the TC books (both old and new) present the GCs. For example almost nothing is said for TC crimes against us during the 1958-1967 conflict or the TC involvement during the Turkish invasion.

I admit that our books might have some shortcomings. But what I noticed is that Greek Cypriots are open to learn from many different sources. You will not find any GC that will not know or aknoledge that there was a conflict until 1967 and that in that conflict TCs suffered as well, even thought this is not emphasized in our books.

Still, the TCs stick with the propaganda as it was exactly fed to them even when all the facts are shown to them. I have shown time and time again all the facts that show that the inter-communal conflict was stared by the TCs in 1958, and it was actually over by 1968, and actually in 1974 no TC was killed until after the Turkish invasion stated. Still some TCs in here insist that it is the GCs that started the inter-communal conflict, and that the conflict was from 1963 until 1974 when Turkey came to "save" them. They just don't show any will to learn, even when all the facts are presented to them.

[insan]

I have shown time and time again all the facts that show that the inter-communal conflict was stared by the TCs in 1958

Dear Piratis, inter-communal conflict emerged inevitably by itself as a consequence of the clashes of Greek and Turkish nationalism in 1930s. After the GC ruling elite armed to struggle for Enosis, TC ruling elite also prepared to struggle for Taksim. That's why TC ruling elite took side with Brits against GC ruling elite.

Let's get back to the topic now. So u read the scientific report of Papadakis and got nothing to agree with him regarding GC history books? Even any slight changes not necessary? Hope u can find some and give us some examples here on this thread.

Cheers

[Bananiot]

You can never carve new paths with arteriosclerotics insan. We can keep trying but there can be no real progress. What is most important is to stand up and be counted and never allow the bigots to ruin our lives again.

[Nikitas]

"the GC ruling elite "

I do not know the class origins of the TMT people, but it is a fact that most EOKA fighters were peasant boys so the last word to describe them would be "elite". In fact part of our problem is that the elite never got actively involved.

[observer]

"the GC ruling elite "

I do not know the class origins of the TMT people, but it is a fact that most EOKA fighters were peasant boys so the last word to describe them would be "elite". In fact part of our problem is that the elite never got actively involved.

Ruling elites rarely get their own hands dirty. They get "peasant boys" to do the dirty work for them.

[Piratis]

Dear Piratis, inter-communal conflict emerged inevitably by itself as a consequence of the clashes of Greek and Turkish nationalism in 1930s. After the GC ruling elite armed to struggle for Enosis, TC ruling elite also prepared to struggle for Taksim. That's why TC ruling elite took side with Brits against GC ruling elite.

You are wrong Insan. The desire of the Cypriot people, like every other Greek, for the creation of a free Greek state goes back to 1821 to the time of the Greek revolution. We had no "ruling elite" at that time, since we were ruled by foreigners. Just like today the Cypriot people desire democracy, freedom and self-determination. This is what is desired by the vast majority of the ordinary Cypriot people, not by any elite.

Are you going to tell me that the Cypriot people asking for democracy, freedom and self-determination was something wrong insan? If it was wrong for Cypriots, then it must be wrong for everybody, right? So every nation should have been content to live under some Colonial empire, be it British, Ottomans or any other.

Union with Greece was a right for the Cypriot people if this is what they would have chosen in a democratic referendum. We have been asking for a democratic peaceful referendum so the Cypriot people could decide in a democratic and peaceful way the destiny of their own island, but this was denied to us by the British and the Turks.

The UN resolution about de-colonization clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as one of the "three legitimate options" for the people being decolonized to choose in a democratic way.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

If the Cypriot people had democratically chosen union with Greece, then the Greek Cypriot majority and the Turkish Cypriot minority in Cyprus would continue to live on this island as they used to live under Ottoman or British rule, but this time as free equal citizens of the state they democratically chose to be part of, and not as subjects of a foreign empire imposed on them by force.

This is what happened in Rhodes island a few years earlier (1947) when it was united with the rest of Greece and the Greek majority and Turkish minority continues to live there in the way they lived during the Ottoman and Italian rule. No conflicts, no wars, no suffering.

So tell me what was wrong with union with Greece and how any of the human rights of the TC minority would be violated if Cyprus became part of Greece, as opposed to be part of the British or Ottoman empires.

Now lets look at Taksim (partition):

Greek Cypriots are the 5 to 1 majority in all areas of Cyprus. In order to achieve partition, crimes such as ethnic cleansing and stealing of lands are required. This means that the demand for partition not only it was illegitimate, but it required the human rights violations of 100s of thousands of innocent people.

So back to the inter-communal conflict:

The Cypriot people had revolted against the British Colonialists demanding their freedom and self-determination. There were no attacks against TCs and no threats or anything else against them. All that the Cypriot wanted was the right to decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic way as opposed to having some foreign empire deciding for us. It was an anti-colonial struggle, a revolution, like those that happened in many other places.

The TCs on the other hand, instead of accepting that the destiny of Cyprus should finally be decided by the Cypriots themselves in a democratic way, they instead sided with the colonialists in order to defeat the Cypriot revolution. Not only that but they started to threaten that 100s of thousands of Greek Cypriots should be annihilated from their homeland in order to achieve partition. And in 1958 they started to put into action their partition plan by attacking and killing innocent Greek Cypriots, looting shops and homes, and starting the inter-communal conflict. It is only after all these threats and murders of innocent GCs that EOKA responded against the TCs.

So stop trying to avoid the fact that it is the TCs who started the inter-communal conflict.

Furthermore, our desire for freedom and self-determination does not even provide a good excuse to either your attacks against innocent people, or to your demands for the annihilation of 100s of thousands of Cypriots from their towns and villages in order to achieve partition.