Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

For those actually interested in my comment about 'no one is illegal' (and can be bothered to think about it for more than the nano-second knee-jerk stupidities of Oracle and Miltiades), the point is straightforward : whilst acts can be illegal, depending on the law, evidence and on judgement, existence itself cannot be illegal. To do may be illegal, to be cannot be illegal.

The revealing word is from the verb to be : is; no one is illegal.

You do consider your intelligence above all others don't you . What is this nonsense you posted above " To do may be illegal, to be cannot be illegal."

Lets take" to do may be illegal" :
To commit a crime , to murder to commit perjury , to incite violence or racial unrest all of course are illegal .
Lets take "to be can not be illegal " :
To be a thief , or a murderer , to be involved in kidnapping , incest , paedophilia , to be actively involved in criminal activities , which" to be" in your esteemed opinion is not illegal !!
Do tell us mate !

Miltiades,
There are reasons that languages have different kinds of verbs. In English the verb to be refers to a state of being or a condition, which can be permanent (existential) or transient (temporal). Your list of "to be a thief, ...murderer ... etc" is simply a category error on your part reflecting a conflation of an action (to steal, to murder, to kidnap, to commit incest, etc) with an existential condition. When I wrote 'no one is illegal" it was a reference to the existential. For example, a child born of a settler family has not committed a crime by having been born into a settler family.

Crimes are committed. Crimes are not a function or attribute of existence.

Do give me an example of categories where "to be" involved in criminal activities is not illegal . The example you gave above ie to be born is not relative to the discussion, its pretty much as saying to be good looking , to be rich etc etc.
Do please offer an example or two relating to settlers in Northern Cyprus who entered a sovereign state , as per UN , via illegal ports of entry according to International legalities , and are settled in parts of CYPRUS CONSIDERED BY ALL INTERNATIONAL ENTITIES TO BE UNDER THE OCCUPATION OF THE TURKISH ARMY.
May I also remind you that many T/Cs see these settlers as not only illegally settled in Cyprus but also as a pain in the arse.

A pain in the arse is not an existential condition. Oracle excepted.

[denizaksulu]

exactly the same to your pointless two state crap comment...if your against solution in cyprus and see cyprus as greek or turk then what are you doing in cyprus? that was my point

A two state solution is still a solution Pal........I am not against a solution....I just want one that is fair to the TC people as well and reflects the original Zurich agreement....

Why not faır to both sıdes of the argument? Why only TCs? By saying the above you are comminting the same mistake we are accusing the GCs of.

I said "Fair to the TC people AS WELL" Deniz.........

Apologies; so you did. Cant be fairer than that.

[Oracle]

So when CopperLine has quit farting around to avoid being incriminated with answering real issues, perhaps he can consider what he is being accused of here ...

[Please note he is the FIRST to use the term "is illegal" ...
... (Then complains if others answer in kind, arguing as a baffling aside to waste every-one's time.)]

DT,
I don't know whether you are being selfish or not. Your conscience is the judge of that.

For myself I really don't care where anyone's father or mother came from, whether they claim that they've a heritage on the island for 3,000 years or 3 days, whether they speak Greek, Turkish, English or Tamil. The principles of equality and human rights are good enough for me. I can't see how one can appeal to human rights with one breath and then in the next breath say that, actually the guy who has a Turkish parent, or who has immigrated from Sri Lanka, or who retired to Cyprus from Koln has lesser human rights than a guy who claims an unbroken family line to some Lusignan serf. (Incidentally an argument I'd have regarding any country : no one is illegal).

Next time you return home from work to find a squatter has moved into your house .... just remember, they are not illegal according to you, and you should just go and sleep in the street. (Extrapolate to illegal immigrants or Settlers - their "foreignness" is irrelevant, their illegal behaviour is not!)

(If you don't "own" property, fine, just respect the wishes of those who do!)

However, the fact that you are attempting to mislead on the respect of Human Rights on the one hand, with the violation of others' Human Rights by illegal conduct against them, suggests you are, once again, trying to justify the act of colonisation.

[miltiades]

For those actually interested in my comment about 'no one is illegal' (and can be bothered to think about it for more than the nano-second knee-jerk stupidities of Oracle and Miltiades), the point is straightforward : whilst acts can be illegal, depending on the law, evidence and on judgement, existence itself cannot be illegal. To do may be illegal, to be cannot be illegal.

The revealing word is from the verb to be : is; no one is illegal.

You do consider your intelligence above all others don't you . What is this nonsense you posted above " To do may be illegal, to be cannot be illegal."

Lets take" to do may be illegal" :
To commit a crime , to murder to commit perjury , to incite violence or racial unrest all of course are illegal .
Lets take "to be can not be illegal " :
To be a thief , or a murderer , to be involved in kidnapping , incest , paedophilia , to be actively involved in criminal activities , which" to be" in your esteemed opinion is not illegal !!
Do tell us mate !

Miltiades,
There are reasons that languages have different kinds of verbs. In English the verb to be refers to a state of being or a condition, which can be permanent (existential) or transient (temporal). Your list of "to be a thief, ...murderer ... etc" is simply a category error on your part reflecting a conflation of an action (to steal, to murder, to kidnap, to commit incest, etc) with an existential condition. When I wrote 'no one is illegal" it was a reference to the existential. For example, a child born of a settler family has not committed a crime by having been born into a settler family.

Crimes are committed. Crimes are not a function or attribute of existence.

Do give me an example of categories where "to be" involved in criminal activities is not illegal . The example you gave above ie to be born is not relative to the discussion, its pretty much as saying to be good looking , to be rich etc etc.
Do please offer an example or two relating to settlers in Northern Cyprus who entered a sovereign state , as per UN , via illegal ports of entry according to International legalities , and are settled in parts of CYPRUS CONSIDERED BY ALL INTERNATIONAL ENTITIES TO BE UNDER THE OCCUPATION OF THE TURKISH ARMY.
May I also remind you that many T/Cs see these settlers as not only illegally settled in Cyprus but also as a pain in the arse.

A pain in the arse is not an existential condition. Oracle excepted.

My dear fellow , a pain in the arse is very much a condition that one can refer to as "existential" .
Oracle can be a pain in the arse with her continued anti Turkish posts and so can you my dear with your insistence in ignoring international accepted interpretations of what constitutes legality and common morality.
A tiny nation such as Cyprus has been invaded with brutal military ruthlessness and set about achieving its aim which was partition of the island and forced extinction of the T/Cs , forcing thousands of them to depart from their country . It has illegally transported hordes of Anatolian , mostly peasants , in order to alter the demographics of this tiny nation.
No one must ignore the reality that these wretched settlers had no option other than accept the "generocity " of Turkey and no one is demanding that these "victims" are simply thrown into the sea .
The T/Cs , the majority of them , want nothing to do with these people, dont want their daughters bringing them home , are resisting the pressure put upon them to abandon their Cypriotness and replace it with that of Turkishness , they want to remain Turkish Cypriots .
A crime has been committed against the Cypriot people , the world thinks so and so do the people of Cyprus , all the people.