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Father Denktas says !

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby Kikapu » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:38 pm

halil wrote:
DT. wrote:
halil wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
halil wrote:Former President Rauf Denktas has called on the two leaders in Cyprus to search for ways of a solution which will be based on two sovereign states.

Why would Christofias help Denktash have a free “sovereign state” at his expense?

Turkish Cypriot logic baffles the brain… Image
:lol:

:lol:

GR , if your brain baffles ....... good sign :!: :wink:


You in agreement with denktash halil?


no my friend......

I am with Talat's idea's .....

many times it was explained on the media .

federal system , single identidty ,2 constituted states .(TC's and GC'S).

my brain does not baffles mate .


You are wrong Halil. Talat is no different than Denktash. What Talat asking already amounts to 2 sovereign states, so when you say you support Talat, you should look very closely what it is that Talat is wanting, but I'm sure you already knew that.!
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Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby Get Real! » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:38 pm

Kikapu wrote:
halil wrote:Former President Rauf Denktas has called on the two leaders in Cyprus to search for ways of a solution which will be based on two sovereign states.


the former President expressed his views on the ongoing negotiations process and expressed his doubt over the Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias’ desire to carry out the negotiations under the basis of a single nation constituted from the two communities.


the former President expressed his views on the ongoing negotiations process and expressed his doubt over the Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias’ desire to carry out the negotiations under the basis of a single nation constituted from the two communities.


He also called on President Mehmet Ali Talat to talk about two separate states from now on.


Where is the rest of the story Halil. It's not like Denktash to repeat himself twice with the same exact words as you have above with the two same sentences, or did you get so excited with the prospect of 2 states, that you copy pasted it twice and forgot to print the rest.!

Denktash, must have started reading the Bible and stumbled across the bit that says… "Ask and you shall receive!” :lol:
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Postby zan » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:41 pm

Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:I think you will find that he is only pointing out the only option left when faced with what Christofias is demanding... :roll:


Just what is it that Christofias is demanding that is different from what the UNSC is demanding, which is BBF Federation that Denktash agreed to.

Any ideas Zan.??



How many times will the leaders have to tell you that hey are doing this by themselves..Get that into your head... :roll: :lol:
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Postby zan » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:42 pm

Kikapu wrote:Let me just say one thing. All those who supported Annan Plan, were already supporting a eventual 2 sovereign states, whether they were conscious of it or not. Had the AP passed, the 2 sovereign states would have already happened today, hence the never ending bitterness by the NeoPartitionist that it was voted down. Since AP is no longer on the table, the NeoPartitionist are talking straight now with their demands since there is nothing else available to disguise it, as the AP was back in 2004. Then again, my cousin's husband said it very clearly 2 years ago when I was in Cyprus, that "the TC's did not vote for peace, but only voted for the Annan Plan". It is very possible also, that a lot of the TC's were duped into believing that the AP was about peace, but the cousin's husband knew it very well what it was all about. Anyone still doubts what he was talking about back then after hearing what Talat and Denktash are now demanding.!


You and your friend are both wrong mate...They were giving away white roses and a dove to release at all the polling booths all over the TRNC... :roll: My god :roll: :roll:
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Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby zan » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:44 pm

Kikapu wrote:
halil wrote:
DT. wrote:
halil wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
halil wrote:Former President Rauf Denktas has called on the two leaders in Cyprus to search for ways of a solution which will be based on two sovereign states.

Why would Christofias help Denktash have a free “sovereign state” at his expense?

Turkish Cypriot logic baffles the brain… Image
:lol:

:lol:

GR , if your brain baffles ....... good sign :!: :wink:


You in agreement with denktash halil?


no my friend......

I am with Talat's idea's .....

many times it was explained on the media .

federal system , single identidty ,2 constituted states .(TC's and GC'S).

my brain does not baffles mate .


You are wrong Halil. Talat is no different than Denktash. What Talat asking already amounts to 2 sovereign states, so when you say you support Talat, you should look very closely what it is that Talat is wanting, but I'm sure you already knew that.!



We are all like Denktas mate...We will not give into the taking of our rights by force.........
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Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby Kikapu » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:46 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
halil wrote:Former President Rauf Denktas has called on the two leaders in Cyprus to search for ways of a solution which will be based on two sovereign states.


the former President expressed his views on the ongoing negotiations process and expressed his doubt over the Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias’ desire to carry out the negotiations under the basis of a single nation constituted from the two communities.


the former President expressed his views on the ongoing negotiations process and expressed his doubt over the Greek Cypriot Leader Dimitris Christofias’ desire to carry out the negotiations under the basis of a single nation constituted from the two communities.


He also called on President Mehmet Ali Talat to talk about two separate states from now on.


Where is the rest of the story Halil. It's not like Denktash to repeat himself twice with the same exact words as you have above with the two same sentences, or did you get so excited with the prospect of 2 states, that you copy pasted it twice and forgot to print the rest.!

Denktash, must have started reading the Bible and stumbled across the bit that says… "Ask and you shall receive!” :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps Denktash listened to John F. Kennedy's famous remarks in reverse, when he is telling Christofias,
"Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for me".!! :lol:
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Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby Kikapu » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:54 pm

zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
halil wrote:
DT. wrote:
halil wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
halil wrote:Former President Rauf Denktas has called on the two leaders in Cyprus to search for ways of a solution which will be based on two sovereign states.

Why would Christofias help Denktash have a free “sovereign state” at his expense?

Turkish Cypriot logic baffles the brain… Image
:lol:

:lol:

GR , if your brain baffles ....... good sign :!: :wink:


You in agreement with denktash halil?


no my friend......

I am with Talat's idea's .....

many times it was explained on the media .

federal system , single identidty ,2 constituted states .(TC's and GC'S).

my brain does not baffles mate .


You are wrong Halil. Talat is no different than Denktash. What Talat asking already amounts to 2 sovereign states, so when you say you support Talat, you should look very closely what it is that Talat is wanting, but I'm sure you already knew that.!



We are all like Denktas mate...We will not give into the taking of our rights by force.........


Well, that precisely what the TC leadership has done for the last 45+ years, plus allowing the RoC to get into the EU, because we did not want to be part of the 1959 Zürich agreements. How much more damage can he do, Zan.?

Nice work Denktash, but you will always be a hero to our friend, Zan.!
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Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby Get Real! » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:58 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Denktash, must have started reading the Bible and stumbled across the bit that says… "Ask and you shall receive!” :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps Denktash listened to John F. Kennedy's famous remarks in reverse, when he is telling Christofias,
"Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for me".!! :lol:

Image
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Re: Father Denktas says !

Postby zan » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:59 pm

Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
halil wrote:
DT. wrote:
halil wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
halil wrote:Former President Rauf Denktas has called on the two leaders in Cyprus to search for ways of a solution which will be based on two sovereign states.

Why would Christofias help Denktash have a free “sovereign state” at his expense?

Turkish Cypriot logic baffles the brain… Image
:lol:

:lol:

GR , if your brain baffles ....... good sign :!: :wink:


You in agreement with denktash halil?


no my friend......

I am with Talat's idea's .....

many times it was explained on the media .

federal system , single identidty ,2 constituted states .(TC's and GC'S).

my brain does not baffles mate .


You are wrong Halil. Talat is no different than Denktash. What Talat asking already amounts to 2 sovereign states, so when you say you support Talat, you should look very closely what it is that Talat is wanting, but I'm sure you already knew that.!



We are all like Denktas mate...We will not give into the taking of our rights by force.........


Well, that precisely what the TC leadership has done for the last 45+ years, plus allowing the RoC to get into the EU, because we did not want to be part of the 1959 Zürich agreements. How much more damage can he do, Zan.?

Nice work Denktash, but you will always be a hero to our friend, Zan.!


Oh you mean the Zurich agreement that we were kept out of...That one....


How much more damage can they do.....Give into your demands....That should see the end of us.......
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Postby MrH » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:14 pm

Get Real Wrote:
Why would Christofias help Denktash have a free “sovereign state” at his expense?

Turkish Cypriot logic baffles the brain…


You just don't get it mate. This has nothing to do with Denktas, but to do with the realities of the Cyprus Conflict. Both peoples (Turkish and Greek Cypriots) clearly can not agree, both are clearly at loggerheads regarding almost every issue aimed at forcefully forging a Bogus Federal government.

The Greek Cypriot logic is simple, domination: Live under a Greek Cypriot dominated Federal government with the 10 additional changes imposed by Makarios in 1963 and accept the Turkish Cypriot minority (in your terms, although the UN has clearly pointed out that the Cyprus issue is not based on a Minority/Majority basis but one on an equal footing - Remember Mr Annan's words?) status. In other words, NO GOVERNMENTAL Control of Cyprus in any way. Come on Get Real, do you really believe we are THAT Stupid?

It's either a Two State agreement or Nothing - it's that simple. Where, if all fails and there's no agreement at the end of these talks, I would bet my holiday Pad in Girne that the UN will ultimately wash its hands with ALL the people of Cyprus, pack its bags together with the EU and declare the "Cease-Fire" line as an official border.

If you don't believe the above to be the case Get Real, just keep on pressing for the "OXI" vote in a future referendum, although, I believe that Christofias is playing his people for a bunch of fools as, according to my understanding and the Greek Cypriots in London - Chris with bail out well before any completion of a UN Plan! Read the following from the Cyprus Mail.......

Christofias’ policy can only work in the short term

“DESPITE our intensive efforts, after four months of work, I do not have real progress to report,” President Christofias announced on Monday. This was his pessimistic appraisal of four months of negotiations with Mehmet Ali Talat that are supposed to pave the way for a compromise deal.

Opponents of the talks used this admission to have a dig at the UN, which had been taking a positive line about the meetings of the two leaders. The implication was that the UN was giving out misleading information and that the process was doomed to failure, as its opponents had been predicting all along.

Why did the president feel obliged to make his feelings public, considering there was still a long way to go and important topics have yet to be touched? It is too early to prepare people for a collapse of the talks, considering he has no intention of walking out when most topics have not even been discussed. He knows this would be a big mistake as the Greek Cypriot side would be burdened with the responsibility for the failure.

Is he trying to put pressure on the UN and the international community to turn the screw on the Turkish side? This also seems implausible as pressure could only be applied when the discussions are completed and the two leaders enter the give-and-take phase. For now, the two sides are merely stating their respective positions, between which there was bound to be some distance.

Another explanation is that his comments were primarily directed at opponents of the talks who have frequently criticized him for allegedly making too many concessions to the other side. By slamming Talat’s demands and lamenting the gulf separating the two sides’ respective positions he is depriving the hard-line camp of ammunition to fire at him.

Had he said that most topics relating to governance were agreed, he would have come under a barrage of criticism and accused of making too many concessions to Talat, because for the hardliners, the negotiations will always be a zero sum game. They always perceive agreement on an issue as a sell-out, because they work on the assumption that what the Turkish Cypriots accept must, by definition, be bad for the Greek Cypriots.

Christofias, therefore, not only has to complain about the lack of progress, but also accuse Talat of making demands that were outside the UN framework. But would a weak federal government which Talat, reportedly, has been demanding, be outside the UN framework? If the two sides agreed to this, would the UN mediators object to it? By being specific he may be looking to reassure the hardliners about his tough stance.

While this tactic may serve him well for now, there is the danger that it would eventually turn everyone against a compromise. If he carries on slamming Talat and his demands, there would be nobody left supporting a settlement, long before the procedure is concluded.



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