Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

This refugee estate is about a mile away from where I sit now. It is within the boundaries of Agios Athanasios municipality, and Agios Athanasios was shown to be 100% Greek Cypriot in the 1960 census. If you are trying to imply that this is Turkish Cypriot owned land, you are factually incorrect. Time to go back to the drawing board and google up some fresh stuff!

Where did the extra houses go Tim...I am not at all saying that it is TC land..That has nothing to do with it...But somebody paid for the land and then built on it...Not only does the original land owner make money but so does the people moving in and owning it....Tax payers money...I could understand putting them up but that is not the case.

Well, there is another refugee estate very close to where I live (Agios Athanasios Refugee Estate), and I am on speaking terms with one refugee from Morphou who lives there. He says that years ago local people were always pestering them to buy their plots of land, but nobody on the estate was interested. Land locally was apparently going for a song in the 1970's. This same man says that if he had bought land then, he would be a millionaire now. The point is that at that time land in this area was cheap and people were only too happy to sell - Limassol was a small town several miles downhill at that time, and the land here only had agricultural value. The government must have been able to acquire the land to build this estate, and others like it, quite cheaply. That is my guess.

It's obviously not zans taxes, so what is he worried about?

I suppose the point is that if you start a thread posing certain questions which then get shot out of the water, you have to start looking for a lifebelt!

That disease of GRs is catching I see...Prematureselfgratification.....


I am sure that many are built on government land also.............I am just wondering if your government knows something that makes them give land and homes away.....

The news story you have mentioned has to do with security of tenure, not ownership. You are really grasping at straws with this one mate.

[zan]

This refugee estate is about a mile away from where I sit now. It is within the boundaries of Agios Athanasios municipality, and Agios Athanasios was shown to be 100% Greek Cypriot in the 1960 census. If you are trying to imply that this is Turkish Cypriot owned land, you are factually incorrect. Time to go back to the drawing board and google up some fresh stuff!

Where did the extra houses go Tim...I am not at all saying that it is TC land..That has nothing to do with it...But somebody paid for the land and then built on it...Not only does the original land owner make money but so does the people moving in and owning it....Tax payers money...I could understand putting them up but that is not the case.

Well, there is another refugee estate very close to where I live (Agios Athanasios Refugee Estate), and I am on speaking terms with one refugee from Morphou who lives there. He says that years ago local people were always pestering them to buy their plots of land, but nobody on the estate was interested. Land locally was apparently going for a song in the 1970's. This same man says that if he had bought land then, he would be a millionaire now. The point is that at that time land in this area was cheap and people were only too happy to sell - Limassol was a small town several miles downhill at that time, and the land here only had agricultural value. The government must have been able to acquire the land to build this estate, and others like it, quite cheaply. That is my guess.

It's obviously not zans taxes, so what is he worried about?

I suppose the point is that if you start a thread posing certain questions which then get shot out of the water, you have to start looking for a lifebelt!

That disease of GRs is catching I see...Prematureselfgratification.....


I am sure that many are built on government land also.............I am just wondering if your government knows something that makes them give land and homes away.....

The news story you have mentioned has to do with security of tenure, not ownership. You are really grasping at straws with this one mate.

The straws between the lines.....

[Nikitas]

Not between the lines AT ALL.

All TC real property in the RoC is managed by the Trustee for TC Property. The trustee allows displaced persons to occupy TC property, not own it. The property owners are always the TCs and their heirs. If such an owners establishes the necessary conditions, continuous residence in the RoC for 6 months, or proof that they left Cyprus before 1974, and also that they are not holding GC property in the north, then they have their property returned.

There have been several evictions of GC dsiplaced people when the TC owners returned and fulfilled the conditions for reoccupation of their land.

The problem with some people is that they cannot appreciate legal meanings like "ownership" and "possession" and confuse the two both in terms of the RoC and the north.

[zan]

Not between the lines AT ALL.

All TC real property in the RoC is managed by the Trustee for TC Property. The trustee allows displaced persons to occupy TC property, not own it. The property owners are always the TCs and their heirs. If such an owners establishes the necessary conditions, continuous residence in the RoC for 6 months, or proof that they left Cyprus before 1974, and also that they are not holding GC property in the north, then they have their property returned.

There have been several evictions of GC dsiplaced people when the TC owners returned and fulfilled the conditions for reoccupation of their land.

The problem with some people is that they cannot appreciate legal meanings like "ownership" and "possession" and confuse the two both in terms of the RoC and the north.

The issue of whether an individual TC returns is not an issue Nikitas...In fact he "RoC" is hoping that they do it en mass.... he problem is what is going on and what you accuse us of doing, you are doing yourselves....

[Oracle]

When I used to volunteer for the CAB, there were often adult children of deceased people, who had lived in Council Houses (Government owned Housing, usually rented) that wanted to inherit the right to live or continue to live in the Council property ... but it always remained the property of the State. (Buying them was a different matter, which is out of context here).

There were rules governing who could and who couldn't stay under these rental agreements.

I guess this refugees case is similar, but considering there are mitigating circumstances, where these people, have for now, lost their rightful homes for political reasons; the RoC should look at the extenuating circumstances, as I am certain they shall, and this is just a premature post of something in-process ....

[Nikitas]

Zan,

Rest assured that no GC has made a fortune dealing in TC land, for the simple reason that he cannot. We know from experience that there are many pirate millionaires in the north, some of whom are not even TCs. They made their fortune dealing in stolen land, selling it to willing victims who are out for a bargain.

I am not referring to TCs who had to relocate in 1974. My grandfather's village in the Morphou area is occupied by TCs who were moved from Polis. These people, used to the semi mountainous areas of Polis find the lowlands ugly and stifling but they make do. A few miles further north, near the sea, the story is MUCH different. The land there was allocated to people with connections and to foreigners who made bundles of money.

This is not to say I forgive the "developers" in the south and their political patrons. Even on legally titled GC land most of the construction is downright ugly, unnecessary and in the long run harmful.

[zan]

Zan,

Rest assured that no GC has made a fortune dealing in TC land, for the simple reason that he cannot. We know from experience that there are many pirate millionaires in the north, some of whom are not even TCs. They made their fortune dealing in stolen land, selling it to willing victims who are out for a bargain.

I am not referring to TCs who had to relocate in 1974. My grandfather's village in the Morphou area is occupied by TCs who were moved from Polis. These people, used to the semi mountainous areas of Polis find the lowlands ugly and stifling but they make do. A few miles further north, near the sea, the story is MUCH different. The land there was allocated to people with connections and to foreigners who made bundles of money.

This is not to say I forgive the "developers" in the south and their political patrons. Even on legally titled GC land most of the construction is downright ugly, unnecessary and in the long run harmful.

I don't think thats strictly true Nikitas....The things that are built on TC property and the back-handers, that are so prominent in Cyprus, would have seen the big boys making plenty of money.....

[Tim Drayton]

Zan,

Rest assured that no GC has made a fortune dealing in TC land, for the simple reason that he cannot. We know from experience that there are many pirate millionaires in the north, some of whom are not even TCs. They made their fortune dealing in stolen land, selling it to willing victims who are out for a bargain.

I am not referring to TCs who had to relocate in 1974. My grandfather's village in the Morphou area is occupied by TCs who were moved from Polis. These people, used to the semi mountainous areas of Polis find the lowlands ugly and stifling but they make do. A few miles further north, near the sea, the story is MUCH different. The land there was allocated to people with connections and to foreigners who made bundles of money.

This is not to say I forgive the "developers" in the south and their political patrons. Even on legally titled GC land most of the construction is downright ugly, unnecessary and in the long run harmful.

I don't think thats strictly true Nikitas....The things that are built on TC property and the back-handers, that are so prominent in Cyprus, would have seen the big boys making plenty of money.....

Zan, Isuggest you re-read the article by Turgut Afşaroğlu that I posted recently on another thread.

You cannot BOTH
- nationalise all abandoned Greek Cypriot immovable property under the TRNC constitution and proceed to issue title to it pursuant to the İTEM Law
(İskan, Topraklandırma ve Eşdeğer Mal Yasası - Law for Housing,
Allocation of Land, and Property of Equal Value)
AND
- complain about unauthorised use or expropriation of abandoned Turkish Cypriot immovable property in the south.

Similarly, you cannot BOTH
- defend the Orams in building on abandoned Greek Cypriot land
AND
- complain about unauthorised construction on abandoned Turkish Cypriot immovable property in the south.

Are you really incapable of seeing the contradiction?

[zan]

Zan,

Rest assured that no GC has made a fortune dealing in TC land, for the simple reason that he cannot. We know from experience that there are many pirate millionaires in the north, some of whom are not even TCs. They made their fortune dealing in stolen land, selling it to willing victims who are out for a bargain.

I am not referring to TCs who had to relocate in 1974. My grandfather's village in the Morphou area is occupied by TCs who were moved from Polis. These people, used to the semi mountainous areas of Polis find the lowlands ugly and stifling but they make do. A few miles further north, near the sea, the story is MUCH different. The land there was allocated to people with connections and to foreigners who made bundles of money.

This is not to say I forgive the "developers" in the south and their political patrons. Even on legally titled GC land most of the construction is downright ugly, unnecessary and in the long run harmful.

I don't think thats strictly true Nikitas....The things that are built on TC property and the back-handers, that are so prominent in Cyprus, would have seen the big boys making plenty of money.....

Zan, Isuggest you re-read the article by Turgut Afşaroğlu that I posted recently on another thread.

You cannot BOTH
- nationalise all abandoned Greek Cypriot immovable property under the TRNC constitution and proceed to issue title to it pursuant to the İTEM Law
(İskan, Topraklandırma ve Eşdeğer Mal Yasası - Law for Housing,
Allocation of Land, and Property of Equal Value)
AND
- complain about unauthorised use or expropriation of abandoned Turkish Cypriot immovable property in the south.

Similarly, you cannot BOTH
- defend the Orams in building on abandoned Greek Cypriot land
AND
- complain about unauthorised construction on abandoned Turkish Cypriot immovable property in the south.

Are you really incapable of seeing the contradiction?

Those same contradictions apply to the "RoC" Tim....You need to see that....I am fully aware of the situation...It is you guys that think its OK for you to do want you want regardless of whether your government is working under the Zurich agreement or not..What this has all been about is the double standards that you are trying t impose on us......The "RoC" should not be functioning and should not be in the EU......If you can do it so can we..If you can moan about it then so can we.....One sided attacks are over.......We operate under difficult if not impossible conditions...You operate without any restrictions and supposedly within the law....The only way you can do the undesired things in the Cyprob is to lie about them....

Then at the same time you moan about thngs ou do yourselves....And I'm looking for a fair deal.

[Tim Drayton]

Zan,

Rest assured that no GC has made a fortune dealing in TC land, for the simple reason that he cannot. We know from experience that there are many pirate millionaires in the north, some of whom are not even TCs. They made their fortune dealing in stolen land, selling it to willing victims who are out for a bargain.

I am not referring to TCs who had to relocate in 1974. My grandfather's village in the Morphou area is occupied by TCs who were moved from Polis. These people, used to the semi mountainous areas of Polis find the lowlands ugly and stifling but they make do. A few miles further north, near the sea, the story is MUCH different. The land there was allocated to people with connections and to foreigners who made bundles of money.

This is not to say I forgive the "developers" in the south and their political patrons. Even on legally titled GC land most of the construction is downright ugly, unnecessary and in the long run harmful.

I don't think thats strictly true Nikitas....The things that are built on TC property and the back-handers, that are so prominent in Cyprus, would have seen the big boys making plenty of money.....

Zan, Isuggest you re-read the article by Turgut Afşaroğlu that I posted recently on another thread.

You cannot BOTH
- nationalise all abandoned Greek Cypriot immovable property under the TRNC constitution and proceed to issue title to it pursuant to the İTEM Law
(İskan, Topraklandırma ve Eşdeğer Mal Yasası - Law for Housing,
Allocation of Land, and Property of Equal Value)
AND
- complain about unauthorised use or expropriation of abandoned Turkish Cypriot immovable property in the south.

Similarly, you cannot BOTH
- defend the Orams in building on abandoned Greek Cypriot land
AND
- complain about unauthorised construction on abandoned Turkish Cypriot immovable property in the south.

Are you really incapable of seeing the contradiction?

Those same contradictions apply to the "RoC" Tim....You need to see that....I am fully aware of the situation...It is you guys that think its OK for you to do want you want regardless of whether your government is working under the Zurich agreement or not..What this has all been about is the double standards that you are trying t impose on us......The "RoC" should not be functioning and should not be in the EU......If you can do it so can we..If you can moan about it then so can we.....One sided attacks are over.......We operate under difficult if not impossible conditions...You operate without any restrictions and supposedly within the law....The only way you can do the undesired things in the Cyprob is to lie about them....

Then at the same time you moan about thngs ou do yourselves....And I'm looking for a fair deal.

I knew in advance that you would immediately defend yourself by pointing to similar contradictions, or alleged contradictions, on the part of the "other side". This is the reflex of extremists - to detract attention from their own indefensible positions by drawing attention to what
is indefensible, or what they perceiev to be indefensible, in others' positions.

In saying "Those same contradictions apply to the "RoC" ..." you are admitting that your arguments are based on a contradiction. Logically speaking, this invalidates your arguments, irrespective of whether the arguments adavnced by others are also based on contradictory premises or not. You arguments here have no validity, and you are admiting as such.