Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Considering that Turkey was only created in 1923, give it a chance! It will have its turn like everyone else to be a colony or a protectorate! No one escapes that fate!

[insan]

Considering that Turkey was only created in 1923, give it a chance! It will have its turn like everyone else to be a colony or a protectorate! No one escapes that fate!

There r always possibilities of all kind. Anything is possible in the future. Maybe Greece will become a colony one more time. No? It's not possible?

[Get Real!]

Copperline you are confusing the rights of legally settled individuals with the status of illegaly transported settlers.

This should clear up Copperline's mind...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 183#395183

[Tim Drayton]

Tim,I was just wondering...How come you were interpreting for these people in the trnc???? From Turkish into...What???

Sorry, my lips are sealed. Professional integrity and all that - I am sure you have been there. If I could tell you, you jaw would drop in astonishment.

There are two questions Tim, which one can you not tell us about? Surely you can tell in to what language you translated to? I just can't see why the secrecy there.

On the other hand, maybe you don't want to say because what you said is just a story you made up for whatever purpose for your own agenda?

You said before that you lived in Turkey for a long time and seen and done so much and from your arguments, you seem to think that you know more than anyone in this forum about anything. Then you moved to the "RoC" for whatever reason. Now you are still seing and doing so much, too much if you ask me that is beginning to sound like it's all made up, especially with all the secrecy.

Anyway, isn't there enough work for you in the South Greek Cyprus that you are forced to cross over the border and take on work in the TRNC as well to earn you wages?

You can either believe me or not, that's up to you. Feel free to ignore all of my posts if you doubt my integrity.

I must support Tim here from some of our very ignorant people on the forum wanting Tim to give information on what and whom he does business with, specially from such people who are not even willing to answer a simple generic question such as if they respect Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, but want Tim to divulge information on his clients. Bir asked a very innocent question out of curiosity and Tim gave him a very diplomatic answer. There was no need for others to press the issue and even question his motives or integrity. The fact that Tim is a freelance professional interpreter/translator who can speak Turkish much better than most of us TC's here for someone whose native tongue is English, is a testament to the fact that he has spent a great deal of time in Turkey. Tim is one of the most open persons on the forum who gives us his real name, website, address, licence number and VAT number.

If I remember correctly, Tim has stated in his website, that he only translates from Turkish to English, because to have the best translation done, it is best to translate from foreign language to ones mother tongue. I have seen his rates to what he charges for his work and that we should be very privilaged to have Tim provide translations for us at the highest quality for absolutely free. It is ludicrous to question his integrity, specially from those who change their NIKS on the forum from one name to another just to hide their past statements, as if we don't know who they really are. If I may use a American Football term, Tim is a MVP (Most Valuable Player), or in the case of the forum, Most Valuable Poster as far as I'm concerned. Keep it up Tim, and ignore rude people..

Thanks for your support, Kikapu. Obviously people who entrust confidential work into my hands don't expect me to post details of it on the net. Anybody who has worked in a professional capacity can understand that. I am not too worried. I could easily turn the question round and ask whether doesntmatter is really a Cyprus-born Turkish Cypriot living in Hackney, as he claims, or if he is lying to us. I don't. Frankly it doesn't matter if doesntmatter is doesntmatter.

[Nikitas]

"There r always possibilities of all kind. Anything is possible in the future. Maybe Greece will become a colony one more time. No? It's not possible?"

Well, there are those that argue that membership in the EU is a kind of voluntary colonisation. And Greece did go through occupation for 5 years during the Second World War. In the and what might matter more is the ability of a nation to recover from such trials, perhaps that is what validates its status as a nation.

[denizaksulu]

Considering that Turkey was only created in 1923, give it a chance! It will have its turn like everyone else to be a colony or a protectorate! No one escapes that fate!

"Hangi cilgin bana zincir vuracakmis, sasarim".trans. (rough) Which mad(person) will put me in chains (of slavery), I will be amazed.(they can but try).

Words from the Turkish National Anthem by Mehmet Akif Ersoy.

[insan]

"There r always possibilities of all kind. Anything is possible in the future. Maybe Greece will become a colony one more time. No? It's not possible?"

Well, there are those that argue that membership in the EU is a kind of voluntary colonisation. And Greece did go through occupation for 5 years during the Second World War. In the and what might matter more is the ability of a nation to recover from such trials, perhaps that is what validates its status as a nation.

True. I agree with ur above point of view. If ever the globalization process of the world is completed all nations will become the colonies of the world's ruling elite which there's no doubt the head office will be located in US. As long as if it will bring justice for all and demilitarization of the whole world, as it is promised; i'm not against this porocess.

Cheers

[CopperLine]

Why does Oracle have to start and continue each thread with such manifest bollocks ? Why do her 'educated' guesses at population figures serve as a basis for discussion ? They're not educated figures, they're the product of ignorant fantasising.

Whilst there are disagreements over the precise figures and definitions of the population of the different parts of Cyprus - the kinds of census and definition differences that you'd expect in most population data - the margin of difference between informed estimates is not so great. The idea of 300,00 settlers is simply not plausible.

Tim Drayton introduces an important point which is germane to all societies : the effects of under and unemployment on social cohesion and stability. There is substantial discrimination is northern Cyprus with the expected effects that arise from systematic inequality; this is found in different degrees in the south.

Any settlement of the Cyprus question has not only to address the political questions of forms of government, jurisdiction etc, but also the economics of integration and social convergence. Inattention to the latter may scupper the former.

More generally on the 'settler' question : under any agreement settlers - whether Turkish, Kurdish, Iraqi, Russian, British, German, etc - should be allowed to remain consistent with fair treatment and human rights as contained in EConvHR. Those who wish to expel settlers (such as Oracle) would then be in breach of the beloved EConvHR of which the Republic of Cyprus is, of course a signatory and which, rightly, condemns Turkey for breaches of that Convention.

Do I understand your final paragraph to mean that the expulsion of settlers from north Cyprus would itself be illegal even though their "importation" to the island itself was contrary to the law? It does not make sense, are you saying Turkey can illegally settle people on the island and there is no remedy open to the ROC?

Jerry I'm saying the following : Turkey and RoC are both parties to the EConvHR under whose terms citizens enjoy certain rights. Removing a person from their homes is readily regarded as breach of their human rights. In fact depriving someone from enjoying their family life, private life, property, etc are all examples of breaches which have been successfully contested in the ECHR, including - quite rightly in my view - the depriving of GCs to their homes or fair tribunals.

If, let's say, a 'settler' has lived in northern Cyprus since - for argument's sake - 1975 and for example has married, has children etc then to forcibly remove that person (either alone or separating him/her from their family) would be regarded as a prima facie breach of the ECHR.

Any political settlement to the Cyprus problem still needs to be human rights compliant. We should just get used to the idea of living together because there's not going to be any big demographic shift from the position we are in today.

[CopperLine]

The latest official population figures that I can get hold of for the government controlled area of RoC is 789,300 (for 2007) See Statistical Service of Gov of Cyprus http://www.mof.gov.cy/mof/cystat/statistics.nsf/All/FC5F3AB325D6BEEAC22574D7002DB767?OpenDocument&sub=1&e= The UN gives a projected population for 2007 of 855,000.

With regards northern Cyprus where population data is more difficult to specify the most reliable figures - and the method of calculation - can be found at the highly respected Peace Research Institute Oslo report from last year. See http://www.prio.no/Cyprus/Publications/Beyond-Numbers-An-Inquiry-into-the-Political-Integration-of-the-Turkish-Settlers-in-Northern-Cyprus/ If we assume that settlers are 'citizens' of TRNC then the total number between 1975 and 2003 is likely to be in the range of 45,000 to 54,000 (amongst whom the self-styled scientist Oracle thinks that there are 100,000 soldiers hidden). Even if we recklessly and baselessly double the number to include settlers who are non-citizens, it still doesn't come anywhere close to the figures bandied around on this thread. If one uses the speculative figures of EUROSTAT - EUROSTAT has not conducted its own research or census on the north - then the settler population is no more than 122,000. Again it doesn't come close to the figures thrown around in this thread.

While total the total population of northern Cyprus is around the 240,000 mark, the number of Turkish citizens working in northern Cyprus was just shy of 17,000 in 2005. Non-registered Turkish workers in northern Cyprus might be have been as high as 30,000 at the height of the building boom in 2005/6. No matter which way you turn the figures, no matter how wide you make the definition of 'settler' you can't get anywhere near the figures cited earlier in this thread.


As reported in the PRIO document, here is what the Annan Plan set out for settlers : "The criteria laid out in the Annan Plan, for example, would have enabled many of those today labelled as ‘settlers’ or ‘foreign elements’ to acquire either citizenship or permanent residence rights in a reunited Cyprus. According to the proposal, each side was to submit to the UN Secretary-General a list of 45,000 names that would include: (a) persons 18 years of age or older who enjoyed permanent residence in Cyprus for at least seven years before becoming 18 and for at least one year during the last five years, as well as their minor-age children who are permanent residents; and (b) other persons who have had permanent residence on Cyprus for at least seven consecutive years."

[CopperLine]

Nikitas
You wrote

The more I hang around this forum the more convinced ...

Since this forum is about as reliable a reflection of Turkey, Cyprus and Greece as Mickey Mouse is an accurate representation of rodent ecology, I think the answer is not to hang around the forum ....

I say this with your well being at heart