Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

BirKibrisli made the following alarming comment :

My educated guess of the real TC numbers is about 80,000....And there are at least 300,000 settlers,not all with citizenship rights...

My further guess would be, there are potentially 100,000 Turkish soldiers hidden in those (settler) numbers.

First of all i must tell u dear that i feel so happy to see u getting empathy and i truely believe that it is sincere. Although i don't know the exact numbers of settlers together with TFSC and TRNC born children - even we can add this the spouses from mixed marriages and their children - ; u can make sure of that theres no potentially Turkish soldiers hidden in those settlers. If there had been we would hear it from Africa or some other sources. Moreover, most of the settlers constitutes hard working class in North. The first wave of settlers were all from rural areas of Turkey. They were all simple villagers. All they knew was farming and still all they knew is farming. Most of them were given residual GC houses and residual fields in rural areas. The better ones allocated for TCs by mostly by drawin the lots and some other with anti-democratic methods.(U know in every less developed country there is a privileged happy minority.) As to the second wave of settlers that arrived in early 90s, they too, were from rural areas of Turkey and they were from the hard working class too. However the second wave of settlers weren't given GC properties because there weren't anymore left to be given. Furthermore, they were indeed condemned as if to live in abandoned or disclaimed properties/houses, mostly located inner walls of Nicosia. The reson behind the advent of the second settlers wave was primarily bcz of the big boom on construction sector and the seek of cheaper employee power of TC/Turkish businesmen. The look of second settlers group was/is fearsome. Most probably, bcz they were/are working in construction field, earning insufficient wages/salary and living in unhealthy places?

I take it the TCs do Military Service, much as we have in the RoC, but under the patronage of their "TRNC" Administration.
So how are these settlers trained??

correctly answered by some other forum members.

Does the "TRNC" Administration undertake the Military Service requirements of the settlers, alongside the TCs; or do they join the 40,000 Turkish occupying-troops, to train to kill us

correctly answered by some other forum members.

..... Or, are the Turkish Settlers exempt from Military Service?

correctly answered by some other forum members.

Today, ur empathy was/is the happiest event of my life. Hope u don't loose it.

[insan]

ASAP, i'll be with u with very amazing info abt settlers that r mostly based on my observations,relations (1976- 87),(2003-2009) and some based on the hearsays. Now I'm too busy in my internet cafe. Cya soon.

Please do that dear because I know you have the potential to make a great Liberal and possibly a pacifist.

Thx dear U surprised me a lot today, indeed.

insan, have you done MS in the "trnc"?

Yes. I did my MS in TRNC. My MS costed me 3000 UK Pounds and 1 month off from work bcz i was living and working in Istanbul.

Were there any Settlers training with you?

The low ranked, settlers origin, proffesional, Turkish Armed Forces of Cyprus' Staff which is called experts trained me. There were some youngsters from mixed marriage families.

Could you possibly answer any of my questions at the start of the thread, about settlers being obliged or not to do MS?

Already done.

If as GR! says they may be exempted, would this be something you resent (having to perhaps defend them, even if they are grown men).

Correctly answered by some other members of forum.

Thank you ..... I will trust to your honesty.

Thx for trusting my honesty, dear. Feel free to ask me anything u like to know. I'll try do my best, sure honestly.

Later, I'll share my experiences, observations and hearsays abt settlers with u but tonight i feel very tired. Tonight i rather tended to read others posts.

[Tim Drayton]

I live in Famagusta and like all places there are areas where you would n't venture out at night. Ask any TC youth what they think of the police and you'ill get the same contempt as you saw in your interview and it can't be because of discrimination because there are as many (if not more) settlers working in the police as there are TC's. I seriously doubt there is any serious descrimination in the police against them.

As for them not being able to find work, young people here with university degrees can not find in general let alone people from lower socio-economic groups. These settler children are also just as lazy as TC youth, no one wants to work its all the easy life. I guess the difference between the two types of youth is that TC parents are more likely to have money to support their children. But in general I can say there is definitely a dependancy culture on the government for jobs.

You'ill also find in places where children grew up along with TC children (mainly in the villages) these 2nd generation have atleast some affinity with Cyprus. In the open part of Maras there is virtually no interaction at all as most TC families who fled from the South after 74 and where housed there have long moved on.

Discrimination and disillusionment would result in a high chance of violence but I seriously doubt there is the kind of discrimination these young people are talking about.

As for children of settlers not crossing over to the south it happens all the time considering you can cross over with a TRNC ID card.

Thanks for the input. You live there so you know the situation better than me. I have been able to converse with many people in the TRNC, but had it not been for these interviews I doubt that I would ever have had an opportunity to speak to the more "lumpen" element within the settler community. As I said, it was an eye opener to see things through their eyes.

I think you are wrong on the final point. These guys all have TRNC ID cards in their pockets, but the RoC only allows those considered to be RoC citizens (i.e. Turkish Cypriots and not settlers or their offspring) to enter the south. In fact, these people said that initially in 2003 when the crosings opened they were able to cross, but later they were prevented from doing so.

[Tim Drayton]

Tim,I was just wondering...How come you were interpreting for these people in the trnc???? From Turkish into...What???

Sorry, my lips are sealed. Professional integrity and all that - I am sure you have been there. If I could tell you, you jaw would drop in astonishment.

There are two questions Tim, which one can you not tell us about? Surely you can tell in to what language you translated to? I just can't see why the secrecy there.

On the other hand, maybe you don't want to say because what you said is just a story you made up for whatever purpose for your own agenda?

You said before that you lived in Turkey for a long time and seen and done so much and from your arguments, you seem to think that you know more than anyone in this forum about anything. Then you moved to the "RoC" for whatever reason. Now you are still seing and doing so much, too much if you ask me that is beginning to sound like it's all made up, especially with all the secrecy.

Anyway, isn't there enough work for you in the South Greek Cyprus that you are forced to cross over the border and take on work in the TRNC as well to earn you wages?

You can either believe me or not, that's up to you. Feel free to ignore all of my posts if you doubt my integrity.

[CBBB]

doesntgiveashit is obviously someone that lives with his head stuck up his arse and is therefore unable to hear other peoples observations which do not fit in with his misconceptions.

[doesntmatter]

Tim,I was just wondering...How come you were interpreting for these people in the trnc???? From Turkish into...What???

Sorry, my lips are sealed. Professional integrity and all that - I am sure you have been there. If I could tell you, you jaw would drop in astonishment.

There are two questions Tim, which one can you not tell us about? Surely you can tell in to what language you translated to? I just can't see why the secrecy there.

On the other hand, maybe you don't want to say because what you said is just a story you made up for whatever purpose for your own agenda?

You said before that you lived in Turkey for a long time and seen and done so much and from your arguments, you seem to think that you know more than anyone in this forum about anything. Then you moved to the "RoC" for whatever reason. Now you are still seing and doing so much, too much if you ask me that is beginning to sound like it's all made up, especially with all the secrecy.

Anyway, isn't there enough work for you in the South Greek Cyprus that you are forced to cross over the border and take on work in the TRNC as well to earn you wages?

You can either believe me or not, that's up to you. Feel free to ignore all of my posts if you doubt my integrity.

The privilege of believing you or not is mine Tim but how can I ignore your posts when you come up with such gems like "Professional integrity and all that" bull and all the things you are supposed to have done all over the place when you offer no proof of your claims what so ever?

[Oracle]

Tim,I was just wondering...How come you were interpreting for these people in the trnc???? From Turkish into...What???

Sorry, my lips are sealed. Professional integrity and all that - I am sure you have been there. If I could tell you, you jaw would drop in astonishment.

There are two questions Tim, which one can you not tell us about? Surely you can tell in to what language you translated to? I just can't see why the secrecy there.

On the other hand, maybe you don't want to say because what you said is just a story you made up for whatever purpose for your own agenda?

You said before that you lived in Turkey for a long time and seen and done so much and from your arguments, you seem to think that you know more than anyone in this forum about anything. Then you moved to the "RoC" for whatever reason. Now you are still seing and doing so much, too much if you ask me that is beginning to sound like it's all made up, especially with all the secrecy.

Anyway, isn't there enough work for you in the South Greek Cyprus that you are forced to cross over the border and take on work in the TRNC as well to earn you wages?

You can either believe me or not, that's up to you. Feel free to ignore all of my posts if you doubt my integrity.

The privilege of believing you or not is mine Tim but how can I ignore your posts when you come up with such gems like "Professional integrity and all that" bull and all the things you are supposed to have done all over the place when you offer no proof of your claims what so ever?

I'm with Tim on this one. There is only so much you should say on the Internet, even when you are being open and honest. Tim said enough to convey the essence of the story, which was backed up by others. As for which languages he was interpreting, that is a step too far; because he says so! Maybe there are only a few people who speak that particular language in the "trnc" and he may inadvertently reveal the id of these two boys. Just accept it and stop being nosey. I've had to draw a veil over how much I say on the Internet many times (including the reason why the UK loves me ) because it's human nature to want to share.

[CopperLine]

Why does Oracle have to start and continue each thread with such manifest bollocks ? Why do her 'educated' guesses at population figures serve as a basis for discussion ? They're not educated figures, they're the product of ignorant fantasising.

Whilst there are disagreements over the precise figures and definitions of the population of the different parts of Cyprus - the kinds of census and definition differences that you'd expect in most population data - the margin of difference between informed estimates is not so great. The idea of 300,00 settlers is simply not plausible.

Tim Drayton introduces an important point which is germane to all societies : the effects of under and unemployment on social cohesion and stability. There is substantial discrimination is northern Cyprus with the expected effects that arise from systematic inequality; this is found in different degrees in the south.

Any settlement of the Cyprus question has not only to address the political questions of forms of government, jurisdiction etc, but also the economics of integration and social convergence. Inattention to the latter may scupper the former.

More generally on the 'settler' question : under any agreement settlers - whether Turkish, Kurdish, Iraqi, Russian, British, German, etc - should be allowed to remain consistent with fair treatment and human rights as contained in EConvHR. Those who wish to expel settlers (such as Oracle) would then be in breach of the beloved EConvHR of which the Republic of Cyprus is, of course a signatory and which, rightly, condemns Turkey for breaches of that Convention.

[Cem]

I live in Famagusta and like all places there are areas where you would n't venture out at night. Ask any TC youth what they think of the police and you'ill get the same contempt as you saw in your interview and it can't be because of discrimination because there are as many (if not more) settlers working in the police as there are TC's. I seriously doubt there is any serious descrimination in the police against them.

As for them not being able to find work, young people here with university degrees can not find in general let alone people from lower socio-economic groups. These settler children are also just as lazy as TC youth, no one wants to work its all the easy life. I guess the difference between the two types of youth is that TC parents are more likely to have money to support their children. But in general I can say there is definitely a dependancy culture on the government for jobs.

You'ill also find in places where children grew up along with TC children (mainly in the villages) these 2nd generation have atleast some affinity with Cyprus. In the open part of Maras there is virtually no interaction at all as most TC families who fled from the South after 74 and where housed there have long moved on.

Discrimination and disillusionment would result in a high chance of violence but I seriously doubt there is the kind of discrimination these young people are talking about.

As for children of settlers not crossing over to the south it happens all the time considering you can cross over with a TRNC ID card.

Thanks for the input. You live there so you know the situation better than me. I have been able to converse with many people in the TRNC, but had it not been for these interviews I doubt that I would ever have had an opportunity to speak to the more "lumpen" element within the settler community. As I said, it was an eye opener to see things through their eyes.

I think you are wrong on the final point. These guys all have TRNC ID cards in their pockets, but the RoC only allows those considered to be RoC citizens (i.e. Turkish Cypriots and not settlers or their offspring) to enter the south. In fact, these people said that initially in 2003 when the crosings opened they were able to cross, but later they were prevented from doing so.

A Turkish friend of mine who is married to a TC woman said that he could also cross to south after their matrimonial booklet (issued in the "occupied area") was registered on a computer.

[Oracle]

The idea of 300,00 settlers is simply not plausible.

Why is BirKibrisli's estimate not plausible?

Those who wish to expel settlers (such as Oracle) would then be in breach of the beloved EConvHR of which the Republic of Cyprus is, of course a signatory and which, rightly, condemns Turkey for breaches of that Convention.

I am not a Settler ... but I am touched at your concern that expelling me, would cause a breach of something