Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

BirKibrisli made the following alarming comment :

My educated guess of the real TC numbers is about 80,000....And there are at least 300,000 settlers,not all with citizenship rights...

My further guess would be, there are potentially 100,000 Turkish soldiers hidden in those (settler) numbers.

I take it the TCs do Military Service, much as we have in the RoC, but under the patronage of their "TRNC" Administration.

So how are these settlers trained?

Does the "TRNC" Administration undertake the Military Service requirements of the settlers, alongside the TCs; or do they join the 40,000 Turkish occupying-troops, to train to kill us?

..... Or, are the Turkish Settlers exempt from Military Service?

Oracle,
The 300,000 figure includes older men,women and children...And not all of them are trnc citizens...But those who are,and who haven't done their national service in Turkey do it in Cyprus. trnc has its own armed forces separate from the 40,000 Turkish Troops...When soldiers train,they usually do train in armed combat and not as hospitality workers!!!

That is why I reduced the 300,000 figure of total Settlers to potentially 100,000 soldiers.

I know the "trnc" has its own armed forces, which is why I asked the questions about these Settlers, who by most accounts are not seen as "TCs". So if they constitute a subclass of people, distinct from TCs, how far does the "trnc" administration go, in integrating them with the TC population? Does it extend to training them alongside TCs, to kill us?

How are the "Settlers" recruited for Military service, and by whom? Do they have to go back to Turkey to serve, or are they trained by the occupying forces (so convenient ) in the north of Cyprus or are there reasons for their exemption?

[zan]

BirKibrisli made the following alarming comment :

My educated guess of the real TC numbers is about 80,000....And there are at least 300,000 settlers,not all with citizenship rights...

My further guess would be, there are potentially 100,000 Turkish soldiers hidden in those (settler) numbers.

I take it the TCs do Military Service, much as we have in the RoC, but under the patronage of their "TRNC" Administration.

So how are these settlers trained?

Does the "TRNC" Administration undertake the Military Service requirements of the settlers, alongside the TCs; or do they join the 40,000 Turkish occupying-troops, to train to kill us?

..... Or, are the Turkish Settlers exempt from Military Service?

Oracle,
The 300,000 figure includes older men,women and children...And not all of them are trnc citizens...But those who are,and who haven't done their national service in Turkey do it in Cyprus. trnc has its own armed forces separate from the 40,000 Turkish Troops...When soldiers train,they usually do train in armed combat and not as hospitality workers!!!

That is why I reduced the 300,000 figure of total Settlers to potentially 100,000 soldiers.

I know the "trnc" has its own armed forces, which is why I asked the questions about these Settlers, who by most accounts are not seen as "TCs". So if they constitute a subclass of people, distinct from TCs, how far does the "trnc" administration go, in integrating them with the TC population? Does it extend to training them alongside TCs, to kill us?

How are the "Settlers" recruited for Military service, and by whom? Do they have to go back to Turkey to serve, or are they trained by the occupying forces (so convenient ) in the north of Cyprus or are there reasons for their exemption?

Come out of the cupboard Oracle...Narnia is too strange even for you...

[Oracle]

On Thursday and Friday I was interpreting at interviews conducted in Famagusta with some local Cyprus-born young men whose parents were from Turkey. This experience was an eye opener. I had the opportunity to engage some general conversation with


them and gauge their outlook on their existence. I can tell you that it was very negative. These men -aged in their mid-twenties - were all unemployed and said that they had given up all hope of ever finding work. They felt that they were victims of discrimination, especially in the eyes of the police. To them, Famagusta police station was a notorious place where people were routinely coerced into signing false confessions. They live with their parents, sleep until the afternoon and the highlight of their day is when they go out in the evening, buy some bottles of whisky and hang out on a piece of wasteground, getting drunk. I got no real sense that these people identified either with the TRNC or with Turkey. I can see an explosive situation building up here, especially as the TRNC economy is heading for a severe downturn and is not going to be able to create work for these people. There is a large concentration of young, disaffected second-generation Turkish migrants in Famagusta. Perhaps I am exaggerating, but I wonder if one day we might see on the streets of Famagusta the kind of events we witnessed a couple of years ago in the suburbs of Paris involving the disaffected children of immgrants.

If the alcohol problem gets out of hand you might get some spontanous civil unrest...But i doubt there will ever be any large scale riots...The trnc is a military run place,they would come down very hard on them...The problem will probably show itself as increased armed robberies,muggings,and house burgleries...plus the usual social problems of drugs,gambling and prostitution etc...

You are probably right, and you need a very large population to support serious riots. Even so, I gained a whole new perspective on life in the TRNC last week.

That reminds me. When MR-from-NG made a brief appearance, this was the last thing he posted:

21st Nov. 08

I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Is he another victim of the silencing campaign?

[zan]

On Thursday and Friday I was interpreting at interviews conducted in Famagusta with some local Cyprus-born young men whose parents were from Turkey. This experience was an eye opener. I had the opportunity to engage some general conversation with


them and gauge their outlook on their existence. I can tell you that it was very negative. These men -aged in their mid-twenties - were all unemployed and said that they had given up all hope of ever finding work. They felt that they were victims of discrimination, especially in the eyes of the police. To them, Famagusta police station was a notorious place where people were routinely coerced into signing false confessions. They live with their parents, sleep until the afternoon and the highlight of their day is when they go out in the evening, buy some bottles of whisky and hang out on a piece of wasteground, getting drunk. I got no real sense that these people identified either with the TRNC or with Turkey. I can see an explosive situation building up here, especially as the TRNC economy is heading for a severe downturn and is not going to be able to create work for these people. There is a large concentration of young, disaffected second-generation Turkish migrants in Famagusta. Perhaps I am exaggerating, but I wonder if one day we might see on the streets of Famagusta the kind of events we witnessed a couple of years ago in the suburbs of Paris involving the disaffected children of immgrants.

If the alcohol problem gets out of hand you might get some spontanous civil unrest...But i doubt there will ever be any large scale riots...The trnc is a military run place,they would come down very hard on them...The problem will probably show itself as increased armed robberies,muggings,and house burgleries...plus the usual social problems of drugs,gambling and prostitution etc...

You are probably right, and you need a very large population to support serious riots. Even so, I gained a whole new perspective on life in the TRNC last week.

That reminds me. When MR-from-NG made a brief appearance, this was the last thing he posted:

21st Nov. 08

I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Is he another victim of the silencing campaign?

Silencing M... I'd like to see the man who would even try...
You are grabbing at straws dear Oracle...His is a personal story and he day after I read the same thing happening in the "RoC" if not worse for a country that is in the EU......

[Tim Drayton]

On Thursday and Friday I was interpreting at interviews conducted in Famagusta with some local Cyprus-born young men whose parents were from Turkey. This experience was an eye opener. I had the opportunity to engage some general conversation with


them and gauge their outlook on their existence. I can tell you that it was very negative. These men -aged in their mid-twenties - were all unemployed and said that they had given up all hope of ever finding work. They felt that they were victims of discrimination, especially in the eyes of the police. To them, Famagusta police station was a notorious place where people were routinely coerced into signing false confessions. They live with their parents, sleep until the afternoon and the highlight of their day is when they go out in the evening, buy some bottles of whisky and hang out on a piece of wasteground, getting drunk. I got no real sense that these people identified either with the TRNC or with Turkey. I can see an explosive situation building up here, especially as the TRNC economy is heading for a severe downturn and is not going to be able to create work for these people. There is a large concentration of young, disaffected second-generation Turkish migrants in Famagusta. Perhaps I am exaggerating, but I wonder if one day we might see on the streets of Famagusta the kind of events we witnessed a couple of years ago in the suburbs of Paris involving the disaffected children of immgrants.

If the alcohol problem gets out of hand you might get some spontanous civil unrest...But i doubt there will ever be any large scale riots...The trnc is a military run place,they would come down very hard on them...The problem will probably show itself as increased armed robberies,muggings,and house burgleries...plus the usual social problems of drugs,gambling and prostitution etc...

You are probably right, and you need a very large population to support serious riots. Even so, I gained a whole new perspective on life in the TRNC last week.

That reminds me. When MR-from-NG made a brief appearance, this was the last thing he posted:

21st Nov. 08

I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Is he another victim of the silencing campaign?

I would not describe these young men I encountered as "scum". They were fairly ordinary, decent people with aspirations to a better life that they saw no hope of ever fulfilling. Apart from congregating in a public space every evening and getting drunk, they did not appear to engage in any illegal or deviant behaviour. There is a human tragedy here that has been brushed under the carpet.

[zan]

On Thursday and Friday I was interpreting at interviews conducted in Famagusta with some local Cyprus-born young men whose parents were from Turkey. This experience was an eye opener. I had the opportunity to engage some general conversation with


them and gauge their outlook on their existence. I can tell you that it was very negative. These men -aged in their mid-twenties - were all unemployed and said that they had given up all hope of ever finding work. They felt that they were victims of discrimination, especially in the eyes of the police. To them, Famagusta police station was a notorious place where people were routinely coerced into signing false confessions. They live with their parents, sleep until the afternoon and the highlight of their day is when they go out in the evening, buy some bottles of whisky and hang out on a piece of wasteground, getting drunk. I got no real sense that these people identified either with the TRNC or with Turkey. I can see an explosive situation building up here, especially as the TRNC economy is heading for a severe downturn and is not going to be able to create work for these people. There is a large concentration of young, disaffected second-generation Turkish migrants in Famagusta. Perhaps I am exaggerating, but I wonder if one day we might see on the streets of Famagusta the kind of events we witnessed a couple of years ago in the suburbs of Paris involving the disaffected children of immgrants.

If the alcohol problem gets out of hand you might get some spontanous civil unrest...But i doubt there will ever be any large scale riots...The trnc is a military run place,they would come down very hard on them...The problem will probably show itself as increased armed robberies,muggings,and house burgleries...plus the usual social problems of drugs,gambling and prostitution etc...

You are probably right, and you need a very large population to support serious riots. Even so, I gained a whole new perspective on life in the TRNC last week.

That reminds me. When MR-from-NG made a brief appearance, this was the last thing he posted:

21st Nov. 08

I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Is he another victim of the silencing campaign?

I would not describe these young men I encountered as "scum". They were fairly ordinary, decent people with aspirations to a better life that they saw no hope of ever fulfilling. Apart from congregating in a public space every evening and getting drunk, they did not appear to engage in any illegal or deviant behaviour. There is a human tragedy here that has been brushed under the carpet.

Agreed Tim and it should be addressed all over the world.....You forget that I work every day in council estates in London.......I have seen things like old demented people who have no idea what planet they are on living in conditions I would not let a dog live in...That is why this sort of talk gets my goat....people don't see what is under there own noses...On thing that I am happy about working in Turkish homes though...They are spotless no matter what their situation....

[Get Real!]

BirKibrisli made the following alarming comment :

My educated guess of the real TC numbers is about 80,000....And there are at least 300,000 settlers,not all with citizenship rights...

My further guess would be, there are potentially 100,000 Turkish soldiers hidden in those (settler) numbers.

I take it the TCs do Military Service, much as we have in the RoC, but under the patronage of their "TRNC" Administration.

So how are these settlers trained?

Does the "TRNC" Administration undertake the Military Service requirements of the settlers, alongside the TCs; or do they join the 40,000 Turkish occupying-troops, to train to kill us?

..... Or, are the Turkish Settlers exempt from Military Service?

Strange thread...

The settlers aren't even trained to make good cannon fodder let alone combatants! Anyway, the TC contingent (around 4.5k) is separate to the Turkish army (around 37k) but receives its crappy arms and training from the Turks who have the good hardware. Basically, the TC "force" is more symbolic than battleworthy.

[Oracle]

On Thursday and Friday I was interpreting at interviews conducted in Famagusta with some local Cyprus-born young men whose parents were from Turkey. This experience was an eye opener. I had the opportunity to engage some general conversation with


them and gauge their outlook on their existence. I can tell you that it was very negative. These men -aged in their mid-twenties - were all unemployed and said that they had given up all hope of ever finding work. They felt that they were victims of discrimination, especially in the eyes of the police. To them, Famagusta police station was a notorious place where people were routinely coerced into signing false confessions. They live with their parents, sleep until the afternoon and the highlight of their day is when they go out in the evening, buy some bottles of whisky and hang out on a piece of wasteground, getting drunk. I got no real sense that these people identified either with the TRNC or with Turkey. I can see an explosive situation building up here, especially as the TRNC economy is heading for a severe downturn and is not going to be able to create work for these people. There is a large concentration of young, disaffected second-generation Turkish migrants in Famagusta. Perhaps I am exaggerating, but I wonder if one day we might see on the streets of Famagusta the kind of events we witnessed a couple of years ago in the suburbs of Paris involving the disaffected children of immgrants.

If the alcohol problem gets out of hand you might get some spontanous civil unrest...But i doubt there will ever be any large scale riots...The trnc is a military run place,they would come down very hard on them...The problem will probably show itself as increased armed robberies,muggings,and house burgleries...plus the usual social problems of drugs,gambling and prostitution etc...

You are probably right, and you need a very large population to support serious riots. Even so, I gained a whole new perspective on life in the TRNC last week.

That reminds me. When MR-from-NG made a brief appearance, this was the last thing he posted:

21st Nov. 08

I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Is he another victim of the silencing campaign?

I would not describe these young men I encountered as "scum". They were fairly ordinary, decent people with aspirations to a better life that they saw no hope of ever fulfilling. Apart from congregating in a public space every evening and getting drunk, they did not appear to engage in any illegal or deviant behaviour. There is a human tragedy here that has been brushed under the carpet.

I wasn't suggesting that was your impression. What brought to mind this quote of MR-from-NG, was the perception I gained, that you were being pressured to ameliorate your negative post

Indeed all people are, profoundly, products of their environment.

But MR-from-NG has property in the "trnc". His "dream home" as he told me once. Sounds like something has seriously soured the enjoyment of this bolt hole. Perhaps the "scum in the north" he was referring to were not Settlers but TCs (or others ) ... we shall have to wait and see if he will post these altered consciousness experiences.

[Tim Drayton]

On Thursday and Friday I was interpreting at interviews conducted in Famagusta with some local Cyprus-born young men whose parents were from Turkey. This experience was an eye opener. I had the opportunity to engage some general conversation with


them and gauge their outlook on their existence. I can tell you that it was very negative. These men -aged in their mid-twenties - were all unemployed and said that they had given up all hope of ever finding work. They felt that they were victims of discrimination, especially in the eyes of the police. To them, Famagusta police station was a notorious place where people were routinely coerced into signing false confessions. They live with their parents, sleep until the afternoon and the highlight of their day is when they go out in the evening, buy some bottles of whisky and hang out on a piece of wasteground, getting drunk. I got no real sense that these people identified either with the TRNC or with Turkey. I can see an explosive situation building up here, especially as the TRNC economy is heading for a severe downturn and is not going to be able to create work for these people. There is a large concentration of young, disaffected second-generation Turkish migrants in Famagusta. Perhaps I am exaggerating, but I wonder if one day we might see on the streets of Famagusta the kind of events we witnessed a couple of years ago in the suburbs of Paris involving the disaffected children of immgrants.

If the alcohol problem gets out of hand you might get some spontanous civil unrest...But i doubt there will ever be any large scale riots...The trnc is a military run place,they would come down very hard on them...The problem will probably show itself as increased armed robberies,muggings,and house burgleries...plus the usual social problems of drugs,gambling and prostitution etc...

You are probably right, and you need a very large population to support serious riots. Even so, I gained a whole new perspective on life in the TRNC last week.

That reminds me. When MR-from-NG made a brief appearance, this was the last thing he posted:

21st Nov. 08

I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Is he another victim of the silencing campaign?

I would not describe these young men I encountered as "scum". They were fairly ordinary, decent people with aspirations to a better life that they saw no hope of ever fulfilling. Apart from congregating in a public space every evening and getting drunk, they did not appear to engage in any illegal or deviant behaviour. There is a human tragedy here that has been brushed under the carpet.

Agreed Tim and it should be addressed all over the world.....You forget that I work every day in council estates in London.......I have seen things like old demented people who have no idea what planet they are on living in conditions I would not let a dog live in...That is why this sort of talk gets my goat....people don't see what is under there own noses...On thing that I am happy about working in Turkish homes though...They are spotless no matter what their situation....

I agree. You encounter the same kind of thing on council estates in the UK. However, these guys suffer discrimination on all kinds of levels. Turkish Cypriots living in Famagusta can now make the half-hour commute to better jobs in Larnaca, or just go there for shopping and entertainment. These people are stuck in what Arif Hasan Tahsin calls the "milking shed" (i.e. the TRNC).

[Oracle]

BirKibrisli made the following alarming comment :

My educated guess of the real TC numbers is about 80,000....And there are at least 300,000 settlers,not all with citizenship rights...

My further guess would be, there are potentially 100,000 Turkish soldiers hidden in those (settler) numbers.

I take it the TCs do Military Service, much as we have in the RoC, but under the patronage of their "TRNC" Administration.

So how are these settlers trained?

Does the "TRNC" Administration undertake the Military Service requirements of the settlers, alongside the TCs; or do they join the 40,000 Turkish occupying-troops, to train to kill us?

..... Or, are the Turkish Settlers exempt from Military Service?

Strange thread...

The settlers aren't even trained to make good cannon fodder let alone combatants! Anyway, the TC contingent (around 4.5k) is separate to the Turkish army (around 37k) but receives its crappy arms and training from the Turks who have the good hardware. Basically, the TC "force" is more symbolic than battleworthy.

So you are saying the (age/health recruit-able) Settlers, or their grown-up children, are exempted from Military Service?