Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

TO get back on topic re EU principles and the rotating presidency.

Can anyone show a single EU nation that has a rotating presidency?

Switzerland has a system which incorporates a rotating presidency but it is not in the EU. And, and this is VERY important, ALL Swiss communities participate in the presidency and not just the two numerically largest. So if we follow the Swiss model there would have to be rotating Armenian, Maronite, Latin and Rom presidents, which is fine by me.

[YFred]

Hellenic? Go tell that to your linobambakos granny who had a boyfriend from each side!

True Cypriot than. Isn’t that what Aphrodite was famous for or am I mistaken there as well.

I'm not interested in mythological characters... it's the alive & well ones I worry about.

Now you have contradicted yourself my Hellenic friend. You see my granny has been dead since 1970. Make your mind up or are you suffering from multi-personality, paranoia as well as xenophobia.

The ancient Greeks are turning in their graves, seeing what you have turned civilisation they introduced us to.

I know your game, get rid of all pro- peace off this forum and have the communication media to yourselves. Which is the only way you can win the next vote. I’ve got news for you, its futile my friend. Cypriots have woken up.

Its funny how you have not contributed a single word for this debate regarding the Office of the President.

If I don’t respond to any more of Hellenic ranting posts from now on, forgive me. I will not waste my time on wasted space like your ilk.

Goodby.

[Get Real!]

Hellenic? Go tell that to your linobambakos granny who had a boyfriend from each side!

True Cypriot than. Isn’t that what Aphrodite was famous for or am I mistaken there as well.

I'm not interested in mythological characters... it's the alive & well ones I worry about.

Now you have contradicted yourself my Hellenic friend. You see my granny has been dead since 1970. Make your mind up or are you suffering from multi-personality, paranoia as well as xenophobia.

The ancient Greeks are turning in their graves, seeing what you have turned civilisation they introduced us to.

I know your game, get rid of all pro- peace off this forum and have the communication media to yourselves. Which is the only way you can win the next vote. I’ve got news for you, its futile my friend. Cypriots have woken up.

Its funny how you have not contributed a single word for this debate regarding the Office of the President.

If I don’t respond to any more of Hellenic ranting posts from now on, forgive me. I will not waste my time on wasted space like your ilk.

Goodby.

I’ve already given you a FAIR & SQUARE “community arrangement” if that’s what you want but you obviously don’t!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21574

So much for your “pro-peace” boasts!

[YFred]

Hellenic? Go tell that to your linobambakos granny who had a boyfriend from each side!

True Cypriot than. Isn’t that what Aphrodite was famous for or am I mistaken there as well.

I'm not interested in mythological characters... it's the alive & well ones I worry about.

Now you have contradicted yourself my Hellenic friend. You see my granny has been dead since 1970. Make your mind up or are you suffering from multi-personality, paranoia as well as xenophobia.

The ancient Greeks are turning in their graves, seeing what you have turned civilisation they introduced us to.

I know your game, get rid of all pro- peace off this forum and have the communication media to yourselves. Which is the only way you can win the next vote. I’ve got news for you, its futile my friend. Cypriots have woken up.

Its funny how you have not contributed a single word for this debate regarding the Office of the President.

If I don’t respond to any more of Hellenic ranting posts from now on, forgive me. I will not waste my time on wasted space like your ilk.

Goodby.

I’ve already given you a FAIR & SQUARE “community arrangement” if that’s what you want but you obviously don’t!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21574

So much for your “pro-peace” boasts!

Finally,
Usual trick. Muddy the water and hope everyone looses interest.
Can we be serious? Is anyone else at the negotiating table as we speak.
Feel free to cerrect me if I am wrong. Or is this a new trick up your sleeve to extend the talks indefinitely.
Get real.

[YFred]

TO get back on topic re EU principles and the rotating presidency.

Can anyone show a single EU nation that has a rotating presidency?

Switzerland has a system which incorporates a rotating presidency but it is not in the EU. And, and this is VERY important, ALL Swiss communities participate in the presidency and not just the two numerically largest. So if we follow the Swiss model there would have to be rotating Armenian, Maronite, Latin and Rom presidents, which is fine by me.

The real question is has any country in EU gone through what Cyprus has gone through in the last 50 years?

[Piratis]

So you admit that you supported the Colonial power to fight against the revolution of the native Cypriot people. Enough said.

There is no legitimacy in the rule of Colonial powers Zan. It is time for you and the rest of Turks to come out of the Middle Ages.

Viewpoint, union with Greece was a legitimate option. The UN resolution for decolonization clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as one of the "three legitimate options" for the people being decolonized to democratically choose from.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Union with Greece did not mean a "death warrant" for the TC minority and this is just your lame excuses with imaginary scenarios. Rhodes which also has a Turkish minority joined Greece a few years earlier (1947) and nothing happened to the Turkish minority there. Also since the wars between Greece and Turkey ended, the Turks in Greece not only didn't die, but their numbers have been steadily [b]increasing, something which is in contrast to the massive decline of the Greek populations in Turkey.[/b]

So your excuse not only is imaginary, but it doesn't stand logically either.

The historical fact in this case (and your imaginary scenarios do not constitute a historical fact) is that as you admitted the TCs collaborated with the British and the Turks and attacked the Greek Cypriots. And this is exactly what I said.

I wonder how much research has been done about the treatment of the Turkish community in Rhodes, Crete and Greece. Are they happy with their lot and do they have same rights as Greeks?

Or are they also being suffocated with love?

Everywhere, as though at a preconcerted signal, the peasantry rose, and massacred all the Turks—men, women and children—on whom they could lay hands. In the Morea shall no Turk be left. Nor in the whole wide world. Thus rang the song which, from mouth to mouth, announced the beginning of a war of extermination… Within three weeks of the outbreak of the revolt, not a Moslem was left, save those who had succeeded in escaping into the towns.

According to another historian of the Greek revolt, William St. Clair, upwards of twenty thousand Turkish men, women and children were killed by their Greek neighbors in a few weeks of slaughter.William St. Clair also argued that: “with the beginning of the revolt, the bishops and priests exhorted their parishioners to exterminate infidel Moslems.” St. Clair wrote:

The Turks of Greece left few traces. They disappeared suddenly and finally in the spring of 1821 unmourned and unnoticed by the rest of the world….It was hard to believe then that Greece once contained a large population of Turkish descent, living in small communities all over the country, prosperous farmers, merchants, and officials, whose families had known no other home for hundreds of years…They were killed deliberately, without qualm or scruple, and there was no regrets either then or later.

Atrocities toward the Turkish civilian population inhabiting the Peloponnese had started in the Achaia on the 28th of March, just with the beginning of the Greek revolt. On the 2nd of April, the outbreak became general over the whole of Peloponnese and on that day many Turks were murdered in different places. On the third of April 1821, the Turks of Kalavryta surrendered upon promises of security which were afterwards violated. Followingly, massacres ensued against the Turkish civilians in the towns of Peloponnese that the Greek revolutionnaries had captured.

The Turks in Monemvasia, weakened by the famine opened the gates of the city, and laid down their weapons. Six hundred of them had already gone on board the brigs, when the Mainotes burst into the town and started murdering all those who had not yet reached to the shore or those who had chosen to stay in the town. Those on the ships meanwhile were stripped of their clothes, beaten and left on a desolate rock in the Aegean, instead of being deported to Asia Minor as promised. Only a few of them were saved by a French merchant, called M. Bonfort.

A general massacre ensued the fall of Navarino on August 19, 1821. See Navarino Massacre.

The worst Greek atrocity in terms of the numbers of victims involved was the massacre following the Fall of Tripolitsa in 1822. Up to 30,000 Turks had been killed in Tripolitsa:

For three days the miserable inhabitants were given over to lust and cruelty of a mob of savages. Neither sex nor age was spared. Women and children were tortured before being put to death. So great was the slaughter that Kolokotronis himself says that, from the gate to the citadel his horse’s hoofs never touched the ground. His path of triumph was carpeted with corpses. At the end of two days, the wretched remnant of the Mussulmans were deliberately collected, to the number of some two thousand souls, of every age and sex, but principally women and children, were led out to a ravine in the neighboring mountains and there butchered like cattle.

Although the total estimates of the casualties vary, the Turkish, Moslem Albanian and Jewish population of the Peloponnese had ceased to exist as a settled community. Some estimates of the Turkish and Muslim Albanian civilian deaths by the rebels range from 15,000 out of 40,000 Muslim residents to 30,000 only in Tripolitsa. According to historians W.Alison Phillips, George Finlay, William St. Clair and Barbara Jelavich, massacres of Turkish civilians started simultaneously with the outbreak of the revolt,while Harris J. Booras and David Brewer wrote that the massacres followed the brutal hanging of Ecumenical Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople.

Historian George Finlay claimed that the extermination of the Muslims in the rural districts was the result of a premeditated design and it proceeded more from the suggestions of men of letters, than form the revengeful feelings of the people.[18] William St. Clair wrote that: “The orgy of genocide exhausted itself in the Peloponnese only when there were no more Turks to kill.”

Central Greece

In Athens, 1,150 Turks, of whom only 180 were capable of bearing arms, surrendered upon promises of security. Alison Phillips noted that: A scene of horror followed which has only too many parallels during the course of this horrible war.

Vrachroi, modern day Agrinio, was an important town in West-Central Greece. It contained, besides the Christian population, some five hundred Mussulman families and about two hundred Jews. The massacres in Vrachori commenced with the Jews and soon Mussulmans shared the same fate.

Aegean Islands

There were also massacres towards the Muslim inhabitants of the islands in the Aegean Sea, in the early years of the Greek revolt. According to historian William St. clair, one of the aims of the Greek revolutionaries was to embroil as many Greek communities as possible in their struggle. Their technique was “to engineer some atrocity against the local Turkish population”,[23] so that these different Greek communities would have to ally themselves with the revolutionaries fearing a retaliation from the Ottomans.[23] In such a case, in March 1821, Greeks from the Samos island had landed in the Island Chios and attacked the Muslim population living in that island.[23]

Another similar massacre took place in the island Hydra, one of the most important Aegean islands. Besides the atrocities committed against the local Muslims in the island, two hybrid brigs captured a Turkish ship laden with a valuable cargo, and carrying a number of passengers. Among these was a recently deposed Sheik-ul-Islam, or patriarch of the Orthodox Muslims, who was said to be going to Mecca for pilgrimage. It was his efforts to prevent the cruel reprisals which, at Constantinople, followed the news of the massacres in Peloponnese, which brought him into disfavor, and caused his exile.[24] There were also several other Turkish families on board. British historian of the Greek revolt, Alison Phillips noted:The Hydriots murdered them all in cold blood, helpless old men, ladies of rank, beautiful slaves, and little children were butchered like cattle. The venerable old man, whose crime had been an excess of zeal on behalf of the Greeks, was forced to see his family outraged and murdered before his eyes…

Just a few reasons why we never wanted to become another Greek island, far from what Piratis claims not Butlins, we fought for survival.

What you posted is one sided Turkish propaganda for what happened during the Greek Revolution.

Oh, wait, just like Cyprus, the rest of Greeks should be happy to always be slaves of foreign rulers and should never revolt seeking their freedom and rights, right VP?

During the Greek Revolution the foreign rulers and oppressors were the Ottomans and obviously the revolution of the Greeks was directed against them. Similarly the Ottomans massacred 10s of thousands of Greeks in their attempt to oppress the Greek revolution and keep Greeks enslaved.

Here is what the Turks did to Cypriots during that time:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

In Cyprus the foreign oppressors in the 1950s were the British, it is against the British Colonialists which our revolution was directed, not against you. And then you decided to join them and attack us.

I had already clearly said:

since the wars between Greece and Turkey ended, the Turks in Greece not only didn't die, but their numbers have been steadily increasing, something which is in contrast to the massive decline of the Greek populations in Turkey.

So nice try, but unfortunately for you it didn't work.

P.S Please note how Viewpoint tried (and failed) to use the events during Ottoman Rule to excuse what happened in the 50s.

[Piratis]

If all the Greek Cypriot people were like Piratis, I would agree with you. But they are not. The last referendum was very unfair. With the next one you will see a different result. The majority of people in Cyprus are for peace. I have always believed that. We have allowed a small percentage of extremes on both sides to hijack our country and we are where we are. When I say small I mean in terms of percentage of population, but they have immense power in the media, and know how to use it to deliver results in polls.

We have to have such an arrangement that 1963 and later cannot be repeated again. Then we will have peace.

Trust in Talat.

The "people like Piratis" are those who support freedom for Cyprus, democracy and human rights.

How about if we have such arrangement that 1958 and later can not be repeated again? Or your attacks against us and your collaboration with the foreign Colonialists in order to have unfair gains on our expense, such as 30% government positions, were all fine for you and should be repeated?

[DT.]

Y oh Y oh Y ...

This is the idiot that thinks there are more than ONE countries that have Cyprus villages.

His partitionist agenda will come out drip by drip.

Y not! Y not! Y not!

Usual meaningful fantastic contribution as ever.

Congratulations.

Personal attacks are not allowed - Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully without insult and personal attack.

I thought you may find the first rule of this forum interesting, unless of course it is not Hellenistic in which case it will be ignored like everything else.

It's a personal attack (since you recognised yourself), only if untrue.

Perhaps you need to concentrate on more important rules, such as respecting the Government of the RoC before you hypocritically throw rules at others.

Only fascist mentality expects “no criticism” and complete obidiance for government not respect. In Cypriot democracy there is only one thing to respect and that is the respect of the will of the people on both sides of the divide whether we like or not. If an element of the Greek Cypriot community expects to return to 1960, then they are in for a shock. If only I had a magic wand and I could take Cyprus back to 1960 and prevent all that went on to bring us to this point, I would. But I don’t and it can’t be done. We will have to learn how to live together with as much interactions as both communities would allow. But I suspect there are elements in both communities that wish to wreck it completely.
Which one do you belong to O Goddess.
How wrong you can be. My whole family have been paid up members of CTP since it began. I would also like to remind you that in the illegal lands, CTP is the only serious electable party who preferred peace to war, opposition in dignity to in government like the ladies of the night. You now what I mean darling. Or should I find a Greek interpreter for you as you seem to find difficulty in understanding what I am saying.

Start contributing content to the debate or forever hold your peace madam.

Another pretentious pseud wanting a debate and so far having filled the forum with errors that others have had to bail him out of

The knee-jerk reactions of those losing the battle are to quote forum rules ... which you did! Then it is to resort to denigrating a fellow debater on the basis that they are female .... which you also did! Finally having flimsy ideas based on fabrications is a non-starter ... so go back to base!

If it's debate you want, stick to some truths; or you will go the way of your ally "Truth" who lasted 2 threads

Dearest Oracle.

You wanted a debate. You are just too scared to debate and resort to type. That’s understandable. Argue your points madam. One by one. Knock all my points down. But please leave out the debate you wanted about my knowledge of grammar and geography which I might add in truest Blackadder style is like a broken pencil. Pointless!

Don’t worry about me, I will last the distance, till the end of the negotiations and the vote, if it ever gets there. Once we finish this one, we will also debate the role of Hellenism within the Cyprus problem, as well as Helenism today, what kind of peace in Cyprus, Property issue, all non-Cypriots(Settlers inc.) etc etc etc.

So lets finish this one first, shall we?

Regards

... They all say that before they go off with a parting speech about how much of a"racist" I am

.... back to their ethnically cleansed, segregated, Turkish troop patrolled, stolen lands!

Why am I not surprised? You will find me the same. I do not debate with racists either, not for long anyway. I sincerely hope that you are not one. In all our communication you have never declared what kind of peace you would like, if any?

I would be very interested to find out whether you see AKEL as openly Hellenist, latently Hellenist or Anti-Hellenist? In the south is there any other choice?
Which one are you, or are you going to dodge this one too?

Recently I had a bit of a shock to discover a much admired musician called Theodorakis declare himself as a Hellenist despite the fact that he declared himself to be a supporter of AKEL. I am struggling to understand the meaning of this.

PS. This is not about point scoring. I have a bit of an issue with your stolen lands comment. I don’t wont to have a debate as to who lost more. But I can assure you that personally my family lost the whole of our Trahones, Mallura and and Bodamya lands. Whilst our lands in Piroi were mined. Plus that we have not gained personally a single thing from the invasion. So if I sound a little insensitive about your losses, believe you me I understand. Secondly after 63, TC’s from 4 different villages Dali, Bodamya, Aysozomeno and Piroi were thrown out of their village and moved into ours, so I also understand fully the meaning of ethnic cleansing . In fact if Lurucadis did not got to rescue the Aysozomenos, there wouldn’t be one left today. This is well before 74. The difference between us is that you sound as though you don’t accept anything that your own side has done to the other. I do. Sooner we have a Truth commission in Cyprus, the sooner we would heal wounds.

This is not about point scoring. We must all listen to each other and our experiences. Otherwise the Greek Cypriots will make the same mistake next time we have a vote.

Thats cause Mikis Theodorakis IS from Greece you dim sum

[YFred]

So you admit that you supported the Colonial power to fight against the revolution of the native Cypriot people. Enough said.

There is no legitimacy in the rule of Colonial powers Zan. It is time for you and the rest of Turks to come out of the Middle Ages.

Viewpoint, union with Greece was a legitimate option. The UN resolution for decolonization clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as one of the "three legitimate options" for the people being decolonized to democratically choose from.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Union with Greece did not mean a "death warrant" for the TC minority and this is just your lame excuses with imaginary scenarios. Rhodes which also has a Turkish minority joined Greece a few years earlier (1947) and nothing happened to the Turkish minority there. Also since the wars between Greece and Turkey ended, the Turks in Greece not only didn't die, but their numbers have been steadily [b]increasing, something which is in contrast to the massive decline of the Greek populations in Turkey.[/b]

So your excuse not only is imaginary, but it doesn't stand logically either.

The historical fact in this case (and your imaginary scenarios do not constitute a historical fact) is that as you admitted the TCs collaborated with the British and the Turks and attacked the Greek Cypriots. And this is exactly what I said.

I wonder how much research has been done about the treatment of the Turkish community in Rhodes, Crete and Greece. Are they happy with their lot and do they have same rights as Greeks?

Or are they also being suffocated with love?

Everywhere, as though at a preconcerted signal, the peasantry rose, and massacred all the Turks—men, women and children—on whom they could lay hands. In the Morea shall no Turk be left. Nor in the whole wide world. Thus rang the song which, from mouth to mouth, announced the beginning of a war of extermination… Within three weeks of the outbreak of the revolt, not a Moslem was left, save those who had succeeded in escaping into the towns.

According to another historian of the Greek revolt, William St. Clair, upwards of twenty thousand Turkish men, women and children were killed by their Greek neighbors in a few weeks of slaughter.William St. Clair also argued that: “with the beginning of the revolt, the bishops and priests exhorted their parishioners to exterminate infidel Moslems.” St. Clair wrote:

The Turks of Greece left few traces. They disappeared suddenly and finally in the spring of 1821 unmourned and unnoticed by the rest of the world….It was hard to believe then that Greece once contained a large population of Turkish descent, living in small communities all over the country, prosperous farmers, merchants, and officials, whose families had known no other home for hundreds of years…They were killed deliberately, without qualm or scruple, and there was no regrets either then or later.

Atrocities toward the Turkish civilian population inhabiting the Peloponnese had started in the Achaia on the 28th of March, just with the beginning of the Greek revolt. On the 2nd of April, the outbreak became general over the whole of Peloponnese and on that day many Turks were murdered in different places. On the third of April 1821, the Turks of Kalavryta surrendered upon promises of security which were afterwards violated. Followingly, massacres ensued against the Turkish civilians in the towns of Peloponnese that the Greek revolutionnaries had captured.

The Turks in Monemvasia, weakened by the famine opened the gates of the city, and laid down their weapons. Six hundred of them had already gone on board the brigs, when the Mainotes burst into the town and started murdering all those who had not yet reached to the shore or those who had chosen to stay in the town. Those on the ships meanwhile were stripped of their clothes, beaten and left on a desolate rock in the Aegean, instead of being deported to Asia Minor as promised. Only a few of them were saved by a French merchant, called M. Bonfort.

A general massacre ensued the fall of Navarino on August 19, 1821. See Navarino Massacre.

The worst Greek atrocity in terms of the numbers of victims involved was the massacre following the Fall of Tripolitsa in 1822. Up to 30,000 Turks had been killed in Tripolitsa:

For three days the miserable inhabitants were given over to lust and cruelty of a mob of savages. Neither sex nor age was spared. Women and children were tortured before being put to death. So great was the slaughter that Kolokotronis himself says that, from the gate to the citadel his horse’s hoofs never touched the ground. His path of triumph was carpeted with corpses. At the end of two days, the wretched remnant of the Mussulmans were deliberately collected, to the number of some two thousand souls, of every age and sex, but principally women and children, were led out to a ravine in the neighboring mountains and there butchered like cattle.

Although the total estimates of the casualties vary, the Turkish, Moslem Albanian and Jewish population of the Peloponnese had ceased to exist as a settled community. Some estimates of the Turkish and Muslim Albanian civilian deaths by the rebels range from 15,000 out of 40,000 Muslim residents to 30,000 only in Tripolitsa. According to historians W.Alison Phillips, George Finlay, William St. Clair and Barbara Jelavich, massacres of Turkish civilians started simultaneously with the outbreak of the revolt,while Harris J. Booras and David Brewer wrote that the massacres followed the brutal hanging of Ecumenical Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople.

Historian George Finlay claimed that the extermination of the Muslims in the rural districts was the result of a premeditated design and it proceeded more from the suggestions of men of letters, than form the revengeful feelings of the people.[18] William St. Clair wrote that: “The orgy of genocide exhausted itself in the Peloponnese only when there were no more Turks to kill.”

Central Greece

In Athens, 1,150 Turks, of whom only 180 were capable of bearing arms, surrendered upon promises of security. Alison Phillips noted that: A scene of horror followed which has only too many parallels during the course of this horrible war.

Vrachroi, modern day Agrinio, was an important town in West-Central Greece. It contained, besides the Christian population, some five hundred Mussulman families and about two hundred Jews. The massacres in Vrachori commenced with the Jews and soon Mussulmans shared the same fate.

Aegean Islands

There were also massacres towards the Muslim inhabitants of the islands in the Aegean Sea, in the early years of the Greek revolt. According to historian William St. clair, one of the aims of the Greek revolutionaries was to embroil as many Greek communities as possible in their struggle. Their technique was “to engineer some atrocity against the local Turkish population”,[23] so that these different Greek communities would have to ally themselves with the revolutionaries fearing a retaliation from the Ottomans.[23] In such a case, in March 1821, Greeks from the Samos island had landed in the Island Chios and attacked the Muslim population living in that island.[23]

Another similar massacre took place in the island Hydra, one of the most important Aegean islands. Besides the atrocities committed against the local Muslims in the island, two hybrid brigs captured a Turkish ship laden with a valuable cargo, and carrying a number of passengers. Among these was a recently deposed Sheik-ul-Islam, or patriarch of the Orthodox Muslims, who was said to be going to Mecca for pilgrimage. It was his efforts to prevent the cruel reprisals which, at Constantinople, followed the news of the massacres in Peloponnese, which brought him into disfavor, and caused his exile.[24] There were also several other Turkish families on board. British historian of the Greek revolt, Alison Phillips noted:The Hydriots murdered them all in cold blood, helpless old men, ladies of rank, beautiful slaves, and little children were butchered like cattle. The venerable old man, whose crime had been an excess of zeal on behalf of the Greeks, was forced to see his family outraged and murdered before his eyes…

Just a few reasons why we never wanted to become another Greek island, far from what Piratis claims not Butlins, we fought for survival.

What you posted is one sided Turkish propaganda for what happened during the Greek Revolution.

Oh, wait, just like Cyprus, the rest of Greeks should be happy to always be slaves of foreign rulers and should never revolt seeking their freedom and rights, right VP?

During the Greek Revolution the foreign rulers and oppressors were the Ottomans and obviously the revolution of the Greeks was directed against them. Similarly the Ottomans massacred 10s of thousands of Greeks in their attempt to oppress the Greek revolution and keep Greeks enslaved.

Here is what the Turks did to Cypriots during that time:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

In Cyprus the foreign oppressors in the 1950s were the British, it is against the British Colonialists which our revolution was directed, not against you. And then you decided to join them and attack us.

I had already clearly said:

since the wars between Greece and Turkey ended, the Turks in Greece not only didn't die, but their numbers have been steadily increasing, something which is in contrast to the massive decline of the Greek populations in Turkey.

So nice try, but unfortunately for you it didn't work.

P.S Please note how Viewpoint tried (and failed) to use the events during Ottoman Rule to excuse what happened in the 50s.

Please explain
“And then you decided to join them and attack us.”

Who is you. Did all the TC’s join the British. Was there no TC’s fighting against the British? Get your facts right. There are 3 in Lurucina cemetery alone that I am aware of.

You are missing the whole point of the struggle for independence. Upto 1960 Even I would have supported eoka except that I was only 2 years old at the time. But after 1960 to try to dismantle RoC and join it with Greece was treason. Every government of the GC’s since have had this aim. Some declared it and some kept it as a hidden agenda. Now the question really is what is the agenda of akel.

Do they have enosis in their blood or do they wish for a united Cyprus living in peace. I do accept that the word united is rather ambiguous. But that is why we have had real talks for the last few months. Not the previous years of pretend ones.

I find a comment Clerides said very useful, talking about his time in office: “We could have solved the Cyprus problem, but we didn’t wont to.”

[YFred]

Y oh Y oh Y ...

This is the idiot that thinks there are more than ONE countries that have Cyprus villages.

His partitionist agenda will come out drip by drip.

Y not! Y not! Y not!

Usual meaningful fantastic contribution as ever.

Congratulations.

Personal attacks are not allowed - Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully without insult and personal attack.

I thought you may find the first rule of this forum interesting, unless of course it is not Hellenistic in which case it will be ignored like everything else.

It's a personal attack (since you recognised yourself), only if untrue.

Perhaps you need to concentrate on more important rules, such as respecting the Government of the RoC before you hypocritically throw rules at others.

Only fascist mentality expects “no criticism” and complete obidiance for government not respect. In Cypriot democracy there is only one thing to respect and that is the respect of the will of the people on both sides of the divide whether we like or not. If an element of the Greek Cypriot community expects to return to 1960, then they are in for a shock. If only I had a magic wand and I could take Cyprus back to 1960 and prevent all that went on to bring us to this point, I would. But I don’t and it can’t be done. We will have to learn how to live together with as much interactions as both communities would allow. But I suspect there are elements in both communities that wish to wreck it completely.
Which one do you belong to O Goddess.
How wrong you can be. My whole family have been paid up members of CTP since it began. I would also like to remind you that in the illegal lands, CTP is the only serious electable party who preferred peace to war, opposition in dignity to in government like the ladies of the night. You now what I mean darling. Or should I find a Greek interpreter for you as you seem to find difficulty in understanding what I am saying.

Start contributing content to the debate or forever hold your peace madam.

Another pretentious pseud wanting a debate and so far having filled the forum with errors that others have had to bail him out of

The knee-jerk reactions of those losing the battle are to quote forum rules ... which you did! Then it is to resort to denigrating a fellow debater on the basis that they are female .... which you also did! Finally having flimsy ideas based on fabrications is a non-starter ... so go back to base!

If it's debate you want, stick to some truths; or you will go the way of your ally "Truth" who lasted 2 threads

Dearest Oracle.

You wanted a debate. You are just too scared to debate and resort to type. That’s understandable. Argue your points madam. One by one. Knock all my points down. But please leave out the debate you wanted about my knowledge of grammar and geography which I might add in truest Blackadder style is like a broken pencil. Pointless!

Don’t worry about me, I will last the distance, till the end of the negotiations and the vote, if it ever gets there. Once we finish this one, we will also debate the role of Hellenism within the Cyprus problem, as well as Helenism today, what kind of peace in Cyprus, Property issue, all non-Cypriots(Settlers inc.) etc etc etc.

So lets finish this one first, shall we?

Regards

... They all say that before they go off with a parting speech about how much of a"racist" I am

.... back to their ethnically cleansed, segregated, Turkish troop patrolled, stolen lands!

Why am I not surprised? You will find me the same. I do not debate with racists either, not for long anyway. I sincerely hope that you are not one. In all our communication you have never declared what kind of peace you would like, if any?

I would be very interested to find out whether you see AKEL as openly Hellenist, latently Hellenist or Anti-Hellenist? In the south is there any other choice?
Which one are you, or are you going to dodge this one too?

Recently I had a bit of a shock to discover a much admired musician called Theodorakis declare himself as a Hellenist despite the fact that he declared himself to be a supporter of AKEL. I am struggling to understand the meaning of this.

PS. This is not about point scoring. I have a bit of an issue with your stolen lands comment. I don’t wont to have a debate as to who lost more. But I can assure you that personally my family lost the whole of our Trahones, Mallura and and Bodamya lands. Whilst our lands in Piroi were mined. Plus that we have not gained personally a single thing from the invasion. So if I sound a little insensitive about your losses, believe you me I understand. Secondly after 63, TC’s from 4 different villages Dali, Bodamya, Aysozomeno and Piroi were thrown out of their village and moved into ours, so I also understand fully the meaning of ethnic cleansing . In fact if Lurucadis did not got to rescue the Aysozomenos, there wouldn’t be one left today. This is well before 74. The difference between us is that you sound as though you don’t accept anything that your own side has done to the other. I do. Sooner we have a Truth commission in Cyprus, the sooner we would heal wounds.

This is not about point scoring. We must all listen to each other and our experiences. Otherwise the Greek Cypriots will make the same mistake next time we have a vote.

Thats cause Mikis Theodorakis IS from Greece you dim sum

Are all Greeks Hellenists then? if so forgive my ignorance.

What does dim sum mean? new one for me, please explain education is my game.