Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

But Enosis has been achieved, between the north and Turkey, proving the pro Enosis sentiment of the TCs.

Really? Neither we, Turkey nor the rest of the world`s countries make any claim that the North is part of the Republic of Turkey.

Of course not. What the world says is that the north Cyprus is part of Republic of Cyprus.

What Nikitas means is that north Cyprus is under the illegal occupation of Turkey. Even the ECHR rulings hold Turkey as responsible for what happens in the territory of Cyprus they illegally occupy.

There is Republic of Cyprus which north Cyprus belongs, and then there is Turkey which illegally occupies this part of Cyprus. There is nothing else.

Who are you is just a minority in Cyprus and you do not own any particular region of the country.

Not according to the original RoC constitution, not according to your leaders, and not according to the rest of the world.

[Piratis]

But Enosis has been achieved, between the north and Turkey, proving the pro Enosis sentiment of the TCs.

Really? Neither we, Turkey nor the rest of the world`s countries make any claim that the North is part of the Republic of Turkey.

Of course not. What the world says is that the north Cyprus is part of Republic of Cyprus.

What Nikitas means is that north Cyprus is under the illegal occupation of Turkey. Even the ECHR rulings hold Turkey as responsible for what happens in the territory of Cyprus they illegally occupy.

There is Republic of Cyprus which north Cyprus belongs, and then there is Turkey which illegally occupies this part of Cyprus. There is nothing else.

Who are you is just a minority in Cyprus and you do not own any particular region of the country.

Not according to the original RoC constitution, not according to your leaders, and not according to the rest of the world.

According to something which you can not change by force and is always true: Mathematics.

[Murataga]

But Enosis has been achieved, between the north and Turkey, proving the pro Enosis sentiment of the TCs.

Really? Neither we, Turkey nor the rest of the world`s countries make any claim that the North is part of the Republic of Turkey.

Of course not. What the world says is that the north Cyprus is part of Republic of Cyprus.

What Nikitas means is that north Cyprus is under the illegal occupation of Turkey. Even the ECHR rulings hold Turkey as responsible for what happens in the territory of Cyprus they illegally occupy.

There is Republic of Cyprus which north Cyprus belongs, and then there is Turkey which illegally occupies this part of Cyprus. There is nothing else.

Who are you is just a minority in Cyprus and you do not own any particular region of the country.

Not according to the original RoC constitution, not according to your leaders, and not according to the rest of the world.

According to something which you can not change by force and is always true: Mathematics.

No, not really. There is no such thing as "minority" in Mathematics; there are less and/or less than or equal to. Minority is a political term established per historical, cultural, social, legal, etc. premise. Less does not necessarily imply minority in a union, region or a country. Mathematically we are less but politically we are not a minority.

[doesntmatter]

If you see your little brother or sister getting a kicking by a bunch of bullies I can only assume that you'd go to her aid and slap a few of them. That's exactly what happend after Turkey waited for you to stop, you didn't stop until you got slapped.

Oh dear we're going around in circles... so why did the loving older brother push you into this fight in the first place then?

Push us into the fight? You have to be kidding... What did you think we were going to do as the TCs ? Sit back and watch you hand off our island and us in it to Greece ? Do you think we would not have fought to prevent ENOSIS and have done so to make people in Turkey happy? If so, you could not be more detached from reality. If it is anything, it is us who pulled them in, not the other way around. We would have sided even with Vatican City if necessary let alone Turkey or Britain to prevent ENOSIS.

The fact of the matter is that it is we the TCs that have stabbed the cold knife into the heart of ENOSIS and still keep it in there. We proudly take all the credit for it on any day of the week. It is because of us that what used to be your grand objective is today something that you can not even talk about. And even more importantly, unless you manage to kill every TC on this island: you will never make it a Greek one - be there anyone else to back us up or not.

It’s the thread’s MAIN article you should be concentrating on and not my exchanges with a goofball who thinks he is clever.

The threads MAIN article was written so that you can ask silly question and dream getting the answer that would suit your agenda.

Those who pushed us in to a fight was the Greeks and Greek Cypriots in the hope that you can g et your enosis.

Oh, hang on, was/is it not you who keeps moaning that Greece got you in to this mess, caused the Cyprus problem and then left you to rot?

Make up your mind who you want to blame and stop prancing about trying to blame everyone else but yourself.

[doesntmatter]

Push us into the fight? You have to be kidding... What did you think we were going to do as the TCs ? Sit back and watch you hand off our island and us in it to Greece ?

Union with Greece was a right for the Cypriot people if this is what they would have chosen in a democratic referendum. We have been asking for a democratic peaceful referendum so the Cypriot people could decide in a democratic and peaceful way the destiny of their own island, but this was denied to us by the British and the Turks.

The UN resolution about de-colonization clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as one of the "three legitimate options" for the people being decolonized to choose in a democratic way.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Therefore a referendum for the union of Cyprus with Greece was our legitimate right. And nobody said that you should just "Sit back and watch", you could have voted in that referendum as well.

Unfortunately it seem that it was all fine for you if Cyprus was part of the British or Ottoman empires, but becoming part of the Greek state, which was the desire of the vast majority of Cypriots themselves, was a reason for you to attack us and start yet another war against us with the aim to deny to us our rights and have unfair gains on our expense.

If the Cypriot people had democratically chosen union with Greece, then the Greek Cypriot majority and the Turkish Cypriot minority in Cyprus would continue to live on this island as they used to live under Ottoman or British rule, but this time as free equal citizens of the state they democratically chose to be part of, and not as subjects of a foreign empire impose on them by force.

This is what happened in Rhodes island a few years earlier (1947) when it was united with the rest of Greece and the Greek majority and Turkish minority continues to live there in the way they lived during the Ottoman and Italian rule. No conflicts, no wars, no suffering. Just an island with mostly Greek inhabitants (like Cyprus) and a Greek history spanning 1000s of years (like Cyprus) being de-colonized from foreign rulers and joining the Greek state along with the rest of Greeks. What more natural?

I'm sure you are one of those macro's GR was talking about the other day.

[Nikitas]

This minority sophistry Murataga would be OK if you extend it to ALL communities of Cyprus and not just the two, Greeks and Turks. If numbers are not relevant let us have political equality for ALL the communities of Cyprus. I am all for it.

As for Enosis having been achieved between the north and Turkey, well, let us see- Turkey controls ALL security apparatus, including Police, Fire Service, Internal Intelligence and of course the army reserves who are TCs. This so called nation uses the currency of Turkey, therefore is under Turkish economic and financial control. Turkey imposes the importation of its nationals and naturalises them at will. I cannot see any better description of Enosis. It goes way beyond anything the GCs dreamed of happening with Greece back in the 50s.

[Oracle]

...Mathematically we are less but politically we are not a minority.

The mouse that roared such nonsense, for an "equation".

So why are you so afraid of the political measure, called Democracy, if you are not a political minority?

[Oracle]

Did the “enosis” agenda really justify Turkey’s reactions?

Definitely YES!

So why did Turkey not pack up and leave when it became obvious there was no Enosis agenda?

If Enosis was on the agenda, the junta Generals would have declared one of their own as leader; instead they kept the Republic of Cyprus, and replaced Makarios with another (US favoured) Cypriot President.

[doesntmatter]

Did the “enosis” agenda really justify Turkey’s reactions?

Definitely YES!

So why did Turkey not pack up and leave when it became obvious there was no Enosis agenda?

"obvious"? Was it really?

If Enosis was on the agenda, the junta Generals would have declared one of their own as leader; instead they kept the Republic of Cyprus, and replaced Makarios with another (US favoured) Cypriot President.

Who was that?

[doesntmatter]

...Mathematically we are less but politically we are not a minority.

The mouse that roared such nonsense, for an "equation".

So why are you so afraid of the political measure, called Democracy, if you are not a political minority?

Why are you so afraid of honouring your signature and word?