Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Vital information which proves that ENOSIS was not the objective of Makarios or the reek Junta which deposed him on 15 Jul 08:

Grivas is an avid anti-Communist and has vowed to destroy the
party on Cyprus. The Communist Party supports Makarios and his
drive for an independent Cyprus. Another leftist faction, led by Vassos
Lyssarides, who is close to Makarios, is determined to block Grivas
by any means. It has about the same strength as the Grivas force.
Up to now, Makarios has held Lyssarides back and prevented a blood
bath involving these two radical extremes within the Greek Cypriot
community. Should the Grivas forces make any really determined and
forceful push to fulfill the general’s lifelong goal of enosis, there is a
good possibility that Makarios would allow Lyssarides to use all his
resources against Grivas.

4. General stated that Greece also believed in non-interference and
in a free, independent, sovereign state of Cyprus; Greece would abide
by the decision of the majority of the Greek Cypriots, most of whom
were nationalists, and these nationalists were the ones who had moved
against Makarios. It was immaterial whether these Greek Cypriot nationalists
moved with or without the prior blessing of Greece or
whether Greek officers subsequently assisted them. At this point he
went off on a tangent stating that neither Greece nor the Greek Cypriots
had asked for enosis, that GOT had obviously accepted these developments
in Cyprus, that Turks understood that the matter was an
internal Greek Cypriot affair.

The Turks were officially aware that the Junta had no intentions to declare ENOSIS:

8. In reply to question whether Greeks were in direct touch with
Turks, General stated we have not bothered the Turks; we have not declared enosis. Turks agree that “the principal thorn” (i.e., Makarios) is
gone and, “I am not in touch with the Turks.” He expressed view that
Greece and Turkey could now proceed at some future time to sit down,
talk and solve their differences. Indeed, according to Ioannides Greeks might even be willing to share profits of petroleum finds in a joint exploration
company; however, Greece would never surrender Aegean
continental shelf because this would mean Turkish control of Greek islands.
He also expressed belief that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could
probably solve their difficulties peacefully, quietly and amicably. He
even joked that in a year or perhaps more realistically ten, the Turks
might want to sell their share of Cyprus for increased percentage of
petroleum rights. Again in reply to direct question, General Ioannides
stated that he was not in contact with any Turkish official; however, he
added that Turks were “officially aware” that enosis was not the objective
[size=18]at this point and that Greek Cypriots did not intend any bloody
action against Turk Cypriots.[/size]

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf


Bafidis says/quotes..........."at this point ". I just cant read past this phrase. Perhaps not now but later? What does it mean? Leaving room to manoeuvre perhaps.

Thanks for the link boys?

[Paphitis]

The Turks were "officially" aware, as they were briefed by someone, probably the US.

There were many opportunities for ENOSIS to be declared. In 1964, Greece had some 10,000-12000 troops on the island and Makarios could have declared ENOSIS at this point in time if he desired.

Why wasn't ENOSIS declared in 1964 if this was the prime objective of the GCs?

Furthermore, since Turkey was "official aware" that ENOSIS was not the objective at this point and that the Greek Cypriots did not intend any bloody action against the TCs, why did Turkey proceed with the planned invasion?

The answer to this question proves the FACT that whilst the GCs abandoned ENOSIS long ago, shortly after independence, the TMT continued its terror campaign against both GCs and TCs, in order to keep the TCs enclaved for the purposes of achieving TAKSIM, which was their dream from 1957.

Surely, if Turkey was "officially aware" in 74, then there was no need to invade. This again proves that Turkey and TMT had been planning the invasion and partition of Cyprus, regardless of ENOSIS or violence against the TCs

The below statement also proves the FACT that President Makarios was strongly opposed to ENOSIS:

Should the Grivas forces make any really determined and
forceful push to fulfill the general’s lifelong goal of enosis, there is a
good possibility that Makarios would allow Lyssarides to use all his
resources against Grivas.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf

[denizaksulu]

Deniz Wrote:

FIRST BLOOD??? what first blood? who's first blood?

HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE DEATHS?

http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/alb ... x1956.html

http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/alb ... x1957.html

http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/alb ... x1958.html

Thanks for the above links as well.

Sadly I am unable to read them, as they are in Turkish. If you find any English links, then please post them.

The pictures are in Turkish and you can't read them?

Which one do you want treanslated?

FFS, are you for real?

If you click on the pictires, text relating to the pictures appear.

[CBBB]

Deniz Wrote:

FIRST BLOOD??? what first blood? who's first blood?

HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE DEATHS?

http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/alb ... x1956.html

http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/alb ... x1957.html

http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/alb ... x1958.html

Thanks for the above links as well.

Sadly I am unable to read them, as they are in Turkish. If you find any English links, then please post them.

The pictures are in Turkish and you can't read them?

Which one do you want treanslated?

FFS, are you for real?

If you click on the pictires, text relating to the pictures appear.

The text is in Turkish, so I have no idea what they relate to. It could be someones family photo album.

I would be interested to read the captions.

[denizaksulu]

They give the dates for births and deaths. The circumstances under which they were killed. The villages they came from and family members they left behind.

[CBBB]

Examples of the circumstances please?

[doesntmatter]

The Turks were "officially" aware, as they were briefed by someone, probably the US.

Ioannides was not in contact with the Turkish officials so how would he know that they "officially" knew?

You also said "probably the US", probably yes, but maybe not.

There were many opportunities for ENOSIS to be declared. In 1964, Greece had some 10,000-12000 troops on the island and Makarios could have declared ENOSIS at this point in time if he desired.

You also quoted 20,000 now you are saying 10-12000.

Why wasn't ENOSIS declared in 1964 if this was the prime objective of the GCs?

If they did Greece and Turkey would have gone to war, thayt's why.

Furthermore, since Turkey was "official aware" that ENOSIS was not the objective at this point and that the Greek Cypriots did not intend any bloody action against the TCs, why did Turkey proceed with the planned invasion?

The answer to this question proves the FACT that whilst the GCs abandoned ENOSIS long ago, shortly after independence, the TMT continued its terror campaign against both GCs and TCs, in order to keep the TCs enclaved for the purposes of achieving TAKSIM, which was their dream from 1957.

Surely, if Turkey was "officially aware" in 74, then there was no need to invade. This again proves that Turkey and TMT had been planning the invasion and partition of Cyprus, regardless of ENOSIS or violence against the TCs

You said "at this point" which means that after the Greeks finished fighting amongst themselves they would have turned againstg us TCs to get their enosis.

The below statement also proves the FACT that President Makarios was strongly opposed to ENOSIS:

Should the Grivas forces make any really determined and
forceful push to fulfill the general’s lifelong goal of enosis, there is a
good possibility that Makarios would allow Lyssarides to use all his
resources against Grivas.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf

"at this point", and a "good possibility" does not really mean definitely.

All this could have been a political game to fool Turkey so that it would not intervene, how can we be sure that it wasn't?

[denizaksulu]

Examples of the circumstances please?

Lisani Ahmet

From Polis. Shot in the back by Eoka while having coffee with his friends (in Polis). 1956.

I picked him as he is in uniform. People have asked already.


Emirali Osman, from Kavaklidere village in the district of Paphos. Hacked to death by the Eoka, together with his wife and other female relative. on the way to their vineyards. They had previously been warned to leave the village by the GCs. 1958

[insan]

This thread is written in order to counter the many Turkish Myths and propaganda that is propagated by many Neo Partitionists on this forum.

It is possible for both parties to make plans, plots to reach their ultimate goal. It is possible for both parties to make A/B/C plans/plots for different purposes; such as propaganda and creating good impressions in favour of their own party. And it is also possible to add myths into for many purposes.

The question is, was/is it normal for both parties to arrange such plans/plots in order to reach their ultimate goal. With a logical guess, yes it's normal. Both parties have their own A/B/C plans/plots based their own cause and beliefs. Like it or hate it; it's been like this for over a hundred years, in Cyprus.

The matter is the plans and beliefs of 2 parties have no common ground on the core point of the problem which is political equality at community basis. Both parties plans and beliefs r based on their own national interests. With a simple retrospective look, u can find the natural reasons behind these beliefs and plans/plots of both parties.

According to my menatlity, there's nothing as good or bad. There r things we like and we don't like.

Conclusion: Both parties in Cyprus will struggle till they get what they want as long as they have the ability and power to struggle. They always looked for international support for their own cause and they will keep looking for it. In case of a no solution that will make happy vast majority of primarily both parties and secondarily 3rd parties; partition will officially be discussed in a few years time. Negotiations for partition will last many years but not as long as the negotiations for unification, i guess.

Cheers ;d

[Bananiot]

Paphitis wrote

There were many opportunities for ENOSIS to be declared. In 1964, Greece had some 10,000-12000 troops on the island and Makarios could have declared ENOSIS at this point in time if he desired.

Why wasn't ENOSIS declared in 1964 if this was the prime objective of the GCs?

Paphitis is displaying total ignorance of the events of 1964. Instead of relying on the briefings of his mother and other relatives he should do some reading and perhaps he can begin to uncover the truth.

In August 1964 the Turkish war ships were a mere 100 metres off the shores of Cyprus. The national guard was in disarray after the bombing of Kokkina by the Turkish airforce and the inability of Greece to come to our rescue. The first leader of the national guard, General Karayiannis had to resign after only two months in the job having come across the total ignorance of Grivas and Yiorgadjis. Makarios resorted to threats of the type "we will attack the Turkish villages" and Papadopoulos asked for 75 minutes to "clean the Turkish Cypriots if the ships approached to within 12 miles of the coast"!

Such was the situation then and Paphitis says that in this environment, if our objective was enosis, Makarios would have declared union with Greece there and then. Thus, in this masterly way he claims that our aim was never enosis in the 60's.

The man has absolutely lost it but this tends to happen to all zealots who have one track mind.