Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Paphitis said:

"Which brings me back to my point. If Cyprus was not so sternly opposed to the West, and Communist influence was stemmed, then things may have turned out different, and Cyprus may not be divided today."

Cite ONE just ONE instance where Cyprus opposed the West at any time from its inception in 1960 to today.

How would you stem Communist influence in a democratic country in which the Communist party is legal, as it is in England, France, Italy etc? And the party was legal during the British occupation, how could it be outlawed during independence.

Nikitas, we seem to be on a slightly different wavelength.

It was the AKEL rhetoric and sloganeering which was opposed to NATO and the West. I have the feeling that Makarios was unduly pressured and influenced to forge closer ties with the USSR, which for me was like committing suicide.

This was a threat to the US, and so Henry Kissinger and his Athenian cronies gave the go ahead for the coup. And he we are 34 years later, a country divided.

As far as I am concerned, the AKEL party has a long history of betraying Cyprus, or at the very least not behaving in a way that would benefit the nation's well being. They initially opposed the 55-59 resistance, they forged close ties with the Soviet Union during the cold war, and more recently, they backstabbed Tassos Papadopoulos during the last elections.

Their anachronistic ideals do not belong in the 21st century. President Christofias last interview about the PfP and the Cyprus Problem were laughable. IMHO!

I think you need to remember Makarios in all his positions. That of president and leader of the GO Church.....Then you might realise the significance of his decisions towards the USSR???

[Truth]

What is even more bizzare is why did the GC's elect a priest to become their leader. This matter has always baffled me. Any thoughts ?

The whole thing has an overtone of a crusade.

[zan]

What is even more bizzare is why did the GC's elect a priest to become their leader. This matter has always baffled me. Any thoughts ?

The whole thing has an overtone of a crusade.

ENOSIS is a GO church word...Who better than the leader of the church to further their aims???

[Truth]

What is even more bizzare is why did the GC's elect a priest to become their leader. This matter has always baffled me. Any thoughts ?

The whole thing has an overtone of a crusade.

If the image I posted does not appear, the text version is as follows:

"The voting took place between 15 and 22 January 1950 amidst complete calm and with no incidents. All those aged over 18, of both sexes, were eligible to sign the registers. Bells called the believers to their duty; whilst the more pious were said to have bowed before the Enosis document as if it were an icon. From the sidelines the Muslim minority watched proceedings with mingled uninterest and apprehension. The more florid and romantic accounts of this occasion from the Greek side may be discounted."
Britain and the Revolt in Cyprus, 1954-1959
By Robert F. Holland
page 18

For the original quote, copy and paste the following link into your browser.
http://www.ts741.741.com/enosis1950.jpg

[Oracle]

Since there are some Turks buzzing around which look at a person and judge him solely by their apparel .... I would just like to remind you, that to all intents and purposes, those religious Greek Cypriot voters, did not look on Makarios as a religious leader; in their eyes he was more a politician, and fairly lapsed from religious "calling".

Indeed as I have already mentioned, from anecdotal evidence, he was elected despite being a Priest and not because he was.

But the fact he was so gentle/soft in his dealings in a political capacity, may have been due to his more accurately calibrated moral compass.

Instead his being a man-of-the-cloth at the time, was purely indicative of the high level of education he had received.

In the 20th Century, probably 99% of the Cypriots were equally, relatively "mild" followers of Greek Orthodoxy. So those who chose to join the Church as priests, did so not because they were any more religious than the general population, but usually as a means to furthering their educational prospects. Thus priesthood for Makarios was a springboard to his other callings ... namely gaining freedom for his people.

That is why, unlike the Roman Catholics who have their "Godly" Pope .. the followers of Orthodoxy view religious access as just another historical interest from which to gain further moral guidance when the human spirit is weak and may think of easier means to an end ... such as the routes the Turks do take!

[zan]

Since there are some Turks buzzing around which look at a person and judge him solely by their apparel .... I would just like to remind you, that to all intents and purposes, those religious Greek Cypriot voters, did not look on Makarios as a religious leader; in their eyes he was more a politician, and fairly lapsed from religious "calling".

Indeed as I have already mentioned, from anecdotal evidence, he was elected despite being a Priest and not because he was.

But the fact he was so gentle/soft in his dealings in a political capacity, may have been due to his more accurately calibrated moral compass.

Instead his being a man-of-the-cloth at the time, was purely indicative of the high level of education he had received.

In the 20th Century, probably 99% of the Cypriots were equally, relatively "mild" followers of Greek Orthodoxy. So those who chose to join the Church as priests, did so not because they were any more religious than the general population, but usually as a means to furthering their educational prospects. Thus priesthood for Makarios was a springboard to his other callings ... namely gaining freedom for his people.

That is why, unlike the Roman Catholics who have their "Godly" Pope .. the followers of Orthodoxy view religious access as just another historical interest from which to gain further moral guidance when the human spirit is weak and may think of easier means to an end ... such as the routes the Turks do take!

What utter bullshit...Taking into account ALL factors...One of which would have been the constant war with Turkey, the Church and politics combined (and I have to say that the GO church has always been in the heart of politics) would have been an objective. there is never a better time to use religion as in war. Find the right guy for the job from the GO church and bingo!!!!

[Bananiot]

Poor old Paphitis thinks that megalomaniac Makarios was not capable of messing things up and that he needed the assistance of others, AKEL for example. He also thinks that Grivas was a clever man. The fact is that these two men, between them, destroyed our island with their compulsive micromegalism and instead of looking to find scapegoats Paphitis should shed the blinkers and look at the truth for a change. The truth which is as simple as they get (truth always is simple) and goes as follows:

1. Internationalisation of the Cyprus issue 1953: A huge mistake (crime I would say) committed by Makarios who despite wise advice from successive Greek governments threatened to ask Thailand to take the Cyprus issue to the UN had Greece not succumbed to his constant nagging that took the form of mobilising the Greek masses in Athens.

2. EOKA struggle 1955-1959: Mortal mistake, which even Glafkos Klerides admitted to. Not only the form of the struggle was wrong, the aim of the struggle alienated the Turkish Cypriots from it since the very survival of the community was being put on line.

3. Akritas Plan: Makarios gave official government backing to sick warlords who also set up “the organisation” comprising of armed men that would made sure the Plan would be implemented in the case of Turkish Cypriot resistance.

4. The 13 points: Only three years after independence he massively misjudged the political scene, proposing changes to the Constitution which could never be accepted by the other side, our partners in RoC. Some say that these were just proposals but this is only to appease those that do not want to know the truth that hurts. I remind you that when the Turkish Ambassador to Nicosia knocked on the door of the Presidential Palace to deliver Ankara’s answer to the “proposals”, he found the door closed and nobody wanted to know what the hell Turkey wanted.

5. Makarios and enosis: Right up to the events of Kophinou in 1967, Makarios schemes for ways to achieve enosis. He still goes for the desirable, putting Cyprus to great risks. In 1964 and 1967 the dreaded foreigners saved our skin from an imminent Turkish invasion.

6. Makarios the realist: Following the events of Kophinou Makarios makes a turn and now he sees the light, declares the end of the enosis dream and goes after the feasible. Grivas and his supporters along with the disenchanted ex EOKA supporters who did not benefit from the loot all these years after independence, go hard against Makarios, aided by the Greek Junta. Makarios is accused of betraying his oath to struggle for enosis and only enosis as the sole conceivable destination of Cyprus

7. The rest that follow are well known but the eventuality could never be different when a country is run by such people, who are now dead but one is still worshipped like a god by most Greek Cypriots while the other is worshipped by the rest.

[Oracle]

Only an Islamic Zanalot ... I mean Zealot, and some Evangelical Americans, can fail to appreciate how Churches serve purely to aid the weakest in a community, and perhaps Makarios' role as a priest was used to soften the politics, since he was sensitive to the Muslim TCs being Human first and foremost, and invaders secondary ... unlike perhaps Grivas; who as a military man, would have had that role reversed.

That's it ...

The perfect combination and indicative of the Cypriot spirit!
A union between military need to survive (courtesy of Grivas) and the calling to rightful humane moral conduct, courtesy of our spiritual conscience... our dear President Makarios.

[zan]

Only an Islamic Zanalot ... I mean Zealot, and some Evangelical Americans, can fail to appreciate how Churches serve purely to aid the weakest in a community, and perhaps Makarios' role as a priest was used to soften the politics, since he was sensitive to the Muslim TCs being Human first and foremost, and invaders secondary ... unlike perhaps Grivas; who as a military man, would have had that role reversed.

That's it ...

The perfect combination and indicative of the Cypriot spirit!
A union between military need to survive (courtesy of Grivas) and the calling to rightful humane moral conduct, courtesy of our spiritual conscience... our dear President Makarios.

Only the tainted still worship the devil....

[Paphitis]

Paphitis said:

"Which brings me back to my point. If Cyprus was not so sternly opposed to the West, and Communist influence was stemmed, then things may have turned out different, and Cyprus may not be divided today."

Cite ONE just ONE instance where Cyprus opposed the West at any time from its inception in 1960 to today.

How would you stem Communist influence in a democratic country in which the Communist party is legal, as it is in England, France, Italy etc? And the party was legal during the British occupation, how could it be outlawed during independence.

Nikitas, we seem to be on a slightly different wavelength.

It was the AKEL rhetoric and sloganeering which was opposed to NATO and the West. I have the feeling that Makarios was unduly pressured and influenced to forge closer ties with the USSR, which for me was like committing suicide.

This was a threat to the US, and so Henry Kissinger and his Athenian cronies gave the go ahead for the coup. And he we are 34 years later, a country divided.

As far as I am concerned, the AKEL party has a long history of betraying Cyprus, or at the very least not behaving in a way that would benefit the nation's well being. They initially opposed the 55-59 resistance, they forged close ties with the Soviet Union during the cold war, and more recently, they backstabbed Tassos Papadopoulos during the last elections.

Their anachronistic ideals do not belong in the 21st century. President Christofias last interview about the PfP and the Cyprus Problem were laughable. IMHO!

I think you need to remember Makarios in all his positions. That of president and leader of the GO Church.....Then you might realise the significance of his decisions towards the USSR???

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard all day...

I can assure you, that Makarios did not have any personal desire to forge closer ties with a country whose Communist regime had a long history of intolerance and persecution towards the Orthodox Religion. He was influenced to do so by his coalition partners.

Makarios even had excellent relations with JFK and the US at one stage, and his strongest political allies went on to form the DIKO Party after him.

The DIKO Party was a centrist/moderate right wing party.