Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

Viewpoint,

YOu underestimate the power of the Hellenic American Association. All it would take was one guy to lobby against American univerisities recognizing the EMU and then we'd see how succesful a university not recognized by 100,000s of american universities would be.

of course we know this is not the way to achieve a solution. alas, you seem to think its ok to illegally occupy other peoples land by claiming its not illegal.

[cannedmoose]

In the interests of Cyprus' future prosperity and (hopeful) self-sufficiency in terms of higher education - it seems bizarre that because of an antiquated approach by the government to higher education, there remains just one fully-fledged university in the RoC - the universities in the north should be cultivated, not condemned. I guess the main reason why they are isolated, in addition to the land issue is that they are a big money-spinner for the TRNC and were developed as such. However, as we've seen in other areas subject to ideological and/or ethnic conflict, the most likely fusion of ideas and joint constructs towards a viable solution can be forged in greater interaction between academics from both sides, in this case in both the North and the RoC.

I guess what I'm saying in an arse-about-face kind of way, is that, short of recognising the universities in the north as such, the RoC government should encourage academic exchanges across the line, with scholars from EMU and elsewhere actively encouraged to give lectures and visit institutions in the RoC and vice-versa. Not only would this expose students to another opinion, but it would also greater cultivate a Cypriot academic community, rather than one divided between the two state entities. Maybe this is pie in the sky stuff given all that divides Cyprus, but it could be another link in the chain that can pull us out of the mess we find ourselves in.

[Viewpoint]

magikthrill

alas, you seem to think its ok to illegally occupy other peoples land by claiming its not illegal.

I feel you seem to miss the point, with the TRNC being located on 85% GC disputed lands our natural development and growth will of course involve the usage of some of this land, its a natural progression, we only have certain avenues available to us due to isolation. If the land development over the last year has ignited GCs then surely they should be working harder for an overall solution which would halt building on GC land and sales to foreigners, they are not being proactive in bringing about conditions that would enable us to trust each other and agree a comprehensive solution. The current climate will only serve to widen the gap between our communities.

magikthrill if you were a TC what would you want from the south to build trust and belief that GC genuinely want a partnership in a united Cyprus with no hidden agendas to reduce TCs to a minority status in our own country?

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos I agree that I may have over reacted but Kifeas posts reveal that he is very land and property orientated, his asking if EMU built on GC land was not out interest (his questions are mainly loaded) but out of trying to downgrade the positive things being said about the university you should understand that we are very proud of our universities, this is one area where we feel we have excelled and even surpassed the south, this for people like Kifeas (this is the impression he gives me) is very hard to digest and they will always try to find a way of downgrading and deflecting the positive into a negative. The sheer fact that cannedmoose is contemplating lecturing there to young minds is a fact that can upset and aggrivate the likes of many GCs ?

[Alexandros Lordos]

The sheer fact that cannedmoose is contemplating lecturing there to young minds is a fact that can upset and aggrivate the likes of many GCs ?

Good question. I think most GCs would tend to be tolerant of "non-recognized" academic establishments, far more so than they are willing to tolerate the illegitimate construction of holiday homes for foreign tourists on GC properties.

When we get back to the negotiating table, the recent construction boom will be a serious stumbling block. The GC side will insist that any construction that took place over the last two years should be disregarded. And the TC side will either insist on the opposite, leading the negotiations to a deadlock (Tassos wouldn't mind), or accept this condition and find itself in an embarassing situation vis a vis the investors that it has attracted with promises of "Annan Plan safeguards to invested properties".

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos

The GC side will insist that any construction that took place over the last two years should be disregarded. And the TC side will either insist on the opposite,

How can the building over the last 2 years be disregarded is this possible? do we knock them all down??? thats why I have always stated that time works against the property issue and the only real solution is to return those lands to GCs that have not been developed and compensate the rest (with realistic and immediate payments) so the more we allow our leaders to delay on returning to negotiate a solution the more people will have to accept compensation.

[Alexandros Lordos]

How can the building over the last 2 years be disregarded is this possible? do we knock them all down???

No, it wouldn't be strictly necessary to knock them down. You can just hand them over to the rightful owners of the land, if you wish to avoid the demolition costs, and there might be some compensation paid by someone - I am not sure who - to the person who made the investment.

The Annan Plan was clear, you know, it talked of investments up to 31st December 2002 being protected, and it had this provision precisely in order to avoid abuse by those who might think - with full knowledge of the Annan Plan provisions - that by building on a GC plot they would get to keep it.

This is one provision of the Annan Plan that the GCs will insist cannot be changed ...

[Kifeas]

I guess what I'm saying in an arse-about-face kind of way, is that, short of recognising the universities in the north as such, the RoC government should encourage academic exchanges across the line, with scholars from EMU and elsewhere actively encouraged to give lectures and visit institutions in the RoC and vice-versa.

Unofficially and as far as I know, such activity between academics of the two communities, does take place. Of course under the current circumstances, any public and formal encouragement by the RoC for such activities between academic institutions of the RoC and "TRNC" is way beyond considering.

Not only would this expose students to another opinion, but it would also greater cultivate a Cypriot academic community, rather than one divided between the two state entities.

You see, for GCs and the RoC, such a notion like the one you described, i.e. "one divided between the two state entities," doesn't exist. For the GCs and the RoC there is only one State in Cyprus, whose legitimate territory extends to the entire of the island. Whatever happens in the north is null and void and/or the outcome of the actions of an illegal occupational regime.

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos

The Annan Plan was clear, you know, it talked of investments up to 31st December 2002 being protected, and it had this provision precisely in order to avoid abuse by those who might think - with full knowledge of the Annan Plan provisions - that by building on a GC plot they would get to keep it.

Annan 5 was rejected by the GCs so it is null and void this issue will of course have to be re-addressed in a new round of negotiations.

This is one provision of the Annan Plan that the GCs will insist cannot be changed ...

Which is their right but taking into account all the millions that have been invested Im sure TC side will object and then it will be a bone of contention.

[Viewpoint]

You see, for GCs and the RoC, such a notion like the one you described, i.e. "one divided between the two state entities," doesn't exist. For the GCs and the RoC there is only one State in Cyprus, whose legitimate territory extends to the entire of the island. Whatever happens in the north is null and void and/or the outcome of the actions of an illegal occupational regime.

Alexandros, this is a prime example of what Ive been saying and the type of mindset thats not going to get us anywhere, now do you understand me and what Ive been trying to say???