Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

The boat carrying the MP from Cyprus and a former senator of the US was rammed by an Israeli military vessel. Having seen the images, half of the Cypriot boat is missing and they had to dock in Lebanon cause the Israelis ordered them to go back to Cyprus despite the damages and not having enough fuel. The Israeli embassy said their military was simply querying whether the Cypriots needed any assistance and they accidentally touched.

[miltiades]

Maybe Cyprus will help out ? will they risk losing all that Israeli income.

Cyprus will be sending €150,000 to Palestinians and a boat has been coming and going taking supplies which may have been hit today.

As for your alleged “Israeli income”, the Israelis can shove it up where the sun don’t shine for all I care. I’d like to see their embassy expelled from Cyprus and all relations cut off.

Why , is Cyprus yours Mr Bin Laden, go to hell or better still go join Hamas and help them out .
What a bloody cheek thinking that Cyprus belongs to the Al Qaeda supporters , go to hell mate !
Israel has offered a 48 hours humanitarian ceasefire provided that Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel , did Hamas accept , did they hell ,
they want nothing but the total destruction of Israel , they are not going to achieve it , silly bastards.

Actually no, I think you'll find they want to have some hope that they will be free to live on the land bequeathed them by their forefathers, and to raise their children there in peace. If one of their stated 'aims' is 'the total destruction of Israel' at least they are honest about it, whereas the Israelis are already destroying the Palestinians year by year, decade by decade. Because a violent act is carried out by a uniformed soldier or air force pilot it doesn't make it any more 'right' than a desperate fighter who sees no hope for his people firing homemade rockets into the darkness. Israel is the master of the situation - they could stop the violence anytime if they took the right approach.

Talisker , are you not forgetting that the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and West bank a few years back , are you also forgetting the fact that Hamas wrestled Gaza , by violent means expelleing and murdering their own brotherhood , are you also forgeting that the West Bank IS making some progress towards stabilising the situation and making life easier for the Palestinian people.
Hamas is a terrosrist movement hell bent on destroying the state of Israel , after which they will proceed with the unfinished business with Fatah then who knows . They have jeopardise any chance of a peaceful outcome by refusing to continue with the ceasefire , by carrying on with indiscriminate rocket attacks , not aimed at any particular area just as as long as it lands in Israel.They are too consumed with intense hatred , these so called religious people , to see that their refusal to a ceasefire will lead to the destruction of Gaza and the continued and intensified suffering of their people.
Any suggestions as to the options available , other than the military ones , to Israel in order to bring an end to the daily rocket attacks on its southern areas ? Grin and bear it perhaps , or ask the Israelis , 7 million of them , to disband call it a day pack up and leave allowing the Palestinians amble room to carry on killing their kith and kin.
Please do tell me hat option other than military should have been exercised.

[miltiades]

Maybe Cyprus will help out ? will they risk losing all that Israeli income.

Cyprus will be sending €150,000 to Palestinians and a boat has been coming and going taking supplies which may have been hit today.

As for your alleged “Israeli income”, the Israelis can shove it up where the sun don’t shine for all I care. I’d like to see their embassy expelled from Cyprus and all relations cut off.

Why , is Cyprus yours Mr Bin Laden, go to hell or better still go join Hamas and help them out .
What a bloody cheek thinking that Cyprus belongs to the Al Qaeda supporters , go to hell mate !
Israel has offered a 48 hours humanitarian ceasefire provided that Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel , did Hamas accept , did they hell ,
they want nothing but the total destruction of Israel , they are not going to achieve it , silly bastards.

Actually no, I think you'll find they want to have some hope that they will be free to live on the land bequeathed them by their forefathers, and to raise their children there in peace. If one of their stated 'aims' is 'the total destruction of Israel' at least they are honest about it, whereas the Israelis are already destroying the Palestinians year by year, decade by decade. Because a violent act is carried out by a uniformed soldier or air force pilot it doesn't make it any more 'right' than a desperate fighter who sees no hope for his people firing homemade rockets into the darkness. Israel is the master of the situation - they could stop the violence anytime if they took the right approach.

Talisker , are you not forgetting that the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and West bank a few years back , are you also forgetting the fact that Hamas wrestled Gaza , by violent means expelleing and murdering their own brotherhood , are you also forgeting that the West Bank IS making some progress towards stabilising the situation and making life easier for the Palestinian people.
Hamas is a terrosrist movement hell bent on destroying the state of Israel , after which they will proceed with the unfinished business with Fatah then who knows . They have jeopardise any chance of a peaceful outcome by refusing to continue with the ceasefire , by carrying on with indiscriminate rocket attacks , not aimed at any particular area just as as long as it lands in Israel.They are too consumed with intense hatred , these so called religious people , to see that their refusal to a ceasefire will lead to the destruction of Gaza and the continued and intensified suffering of their people.
Any suggestions as to the options available , other than the military ones , to Israel in order to bring an end to the daily rocket attacks on its southern areas ? Grin and bear it perhaps , or ask the Israelis , 7 million of them , to disband call it a day pack up and leave allowing the Palestinians amble room to carry on killing their kith and kin.
Please do tell me hat option other than military should have been exercised.

[miltiades]

The problem is that Hamas did provoke this attack, and while we can debate about 'proportionate' responses, the fact that Hamas (a) uses non-combatants as cover for their military operations, thus bringing death and injury upon the non-combatants, and (b) is putting a political stance (opposition to Israel) way ahead of their obligation as an elected government to look after the well-being of their people makes their actions rather reprehensible, IMHO.

Sorry, but you have the wrong person to be debating such a thing because, I do not endorse the methods employed by HAMAS or their terror campaign against Israel. On the same token, I also find the Israeli military action against defenceless individuals rather reprehensible, and this action should be condemned by all peaceful loving nations. It is rather cowardly to be attacking civilian areas by Helicopter Gunships and then to not expect HAMAS to retaliate by employing any means available to them. One thing is for sure, they do not have the Helicopter Gunships to be able to attack Israel in the same fashion.

Now, Israel is trying to minimize the civilian casualties - 'collateral damage' as the Americans would say - which is in contrast to the indiscriminate rocket attacks of Hamas, so condemning Israel really isn't warranted at this stage... IMHO. Hamas chose to attack Israel, and they chose not to recognize, make peace, or negotiate with Israel. They are now reaping the 'benefits' of that stance, and a lot of people are going to die as a result...

I disagree. Two wrongs do not make a right. Killing over 300 civilians is just not on, and as far as I am concerned this action should be considered a war crime.

If the Israelis were serious about restricting civilian casualties, then they would have sent in the army and conducted house to house searches for the terrorists. This type of action would have been a bit more risky, but killing so many civilians is just insane in my view.

Paphitis, ALL killing is wrong, but Hamas' policy of using human shields with impunity is horrible. I hope you're not condoning that!

I do not condone anything!

Israeli military action on unarmed civilians is equally horrible.

I hope you are not condoning this Israeli war crime?

Paphitis , how do you arrive at the figure of 300 civilians killed !!

[Talisker]

Maybe Cyprus will help out ? will they risk losing all that Israeli income.

Cyprus will be sending €150,000 to Palestinians and a boat has been coming and going taking supplies which may have been hit today.

As for your alleged “Israeli income”, the Israelis can shove it up where the sun don’t shine for all I care. I’d like to see their embassy expelled from Cyprus and all relations cut off.

Why , is Cyprus yours Mr Bin Laden, go to hell or better still go join Hamas and help them out .
What a bloody cheek thinking that Cyprus belongs to the Al Qaeda supporters , go to hell mate !
Israel has offered a 48 hours humanitarian ceasefire provided that Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel , did Hamas accept , did they hell ,
they want nothing but the total destruction of Israel , they are not going to achieve it , silly bastards.

Actually no, I think you'll find they want to have some hope that they will be free to live on the land bequeathed them by their forefathers, and to raise their children there in peace. If one of their stated 'aims' is 'the total destruction of Israel' at least they are honest about it, whereas the Israelis are already destroying the Palestinians year by year, decade by decade. Because a violent act is carried out by a uniformed soldier or air force pilot it doesn't make it any more 'right' than a desperate fighter who sees no hope for his people firing homemade rockets into the darkness. Israel is the master of the situation - they could stop the violence anytime if they took the right approach.

Talisker , are you not forgetting that the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and West bank a few years back , are you also forgetting the fact that Hamas wrestled Gaza , by violent means expelleing and murdering their own brotherhood , are you also forgeting that the West Bank IS making some progress towards stabilising the situation and making life easier for the Palestinian people.
Hamas is a terrosrist movement hell bent on destroying the state of Israel , after which they will proceed with the unfinished business with Fatah then who knows . They have jeopardise any chance of a peaceful outcome by refusing to continue with the ceasefire , by carrying on with indiscriminate rocket attacks , not aimed at any particular area just as as long as it lands in Israel.They are too consumed with intense hatred , these so called religious people , to see that their refusal to a ceasefire will lead to the destruction of Gaza and the continued and intensified suffering of their people.
Any suggestions as to the options available , other than the military ones , to Israel in order to bring an end to the daily rocket attacks on its southern areas ? Grin and bear it perhaps , or ask the Israelis , 7 million of them , to disband call it a day pack up and leave allowing the Palestinians amble room to carry on killing their kith and kin.
Please do tell me hat option other than military should have been exercised.

Miltiades, actually Hamas are a political organisation with a military wing. You are wrong if you consider them only to be terrorists. Don't forget, most inconceniently for the Israelis, the Americans and those with a natural prejudice against the Palestinians, Hamas won a surprise victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections in January 2006, taking 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, while the ruling Fatah party took 43. Fatah didn't like getting beaten in the election and, using illegal means, elected Hamas officials were ousted from their positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank. Hamas resisted this in Gaza - hence the near civil war situation that erupted. So George Bush and his ilk should either put up or shut up about the merits of democracy in the Middle East, because as Hamas won he chose to ignore the situation. Why is it inconvenient to have to deal with Hamas? Well, their Charter states, "the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it". The charter also states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." Those statements might be unpalatable for those with pro-Israeli views but if you believe in democracy then you have to respect the fact that this is is part of the package Palestinians were voting for, and expecting action on - in other words, Palestinians had been pushed into a corner so much (literally as well as metaphorically) that they were stating armed resistance was required.

You ask what other approaches the Israelis could use. Yesterday I wrote:

The only way to move ahead is to start trying to integrate, allow Palestinians to make a living in Israel (that wall has stopped this), provide opportunities to educate the children and provide medical help instead of suppress and humiliate. Such a move will require courage, and all the Israeli politicians prefer the chest-thumping military route - as I said already, someone with another vision is required. Rabin provided that (once he'd seen the light - he went from hardliner to provider of hope during his premiership, before some right-wing zionist murdered him), but there is no sign of anyone like him around. A pity, as the Israelis supported Rabin in his efforts to bring peace, so they can be persuaded to take this type of approach.

So I have given you an alternative approach the Israelis could take, and one that showed signs of progress before. Idealistic of course, but the Israelis have to take some risks themselves if they want peace.

[Jerry]

The return of stolen property is the key to solving the Cyprus problem. why should the Palestinians be any different. The jews stole and are still stealing Palestinian land with the assistance of the US and others. If the Turks kept moving the Green Line south I think we would resist. The Palestinians live in shit and have nothing to lose by resisting the jews, this is not currently the case in Cyprus.

Here's a thought, let's claim that God gave us the whole of Cyprus to justify ENOSIS.

[Talisker]

The return of stolen property is the key to solving the Cyprus problem. why should the Palestinians be any different. The jews stole and are still stealing Palestinian land with the assistance of the US and others. If the Turks kept moving the Green Line south I think we would resist. The Palestinians live in shit and have nothing to lose by resisting the jews, this is not currently the case in Cyprus.

Here's a thought, let's claim that God gave us the whole of Cyprus to justify ENOSIS.

An excellent comparison and summary analysis!

[miltiades]

Maybe Cyprus will help out ? will they risk losing all that Israeli income.

Cyprus will be sending €150,000 to Palestinians and a boat has been coming and going taking supplies which may have been hit today.

As for your alleged “Israeli income”, the Israelis can shove it up where the sun don’t shine for all I care. I’d like to see their embassy expelled from Cyprus and all relations cut off.

Why , is Cyprus yours Mr Bin Laden, go to hell or better still go join Hamas and help them out .
What a bloody cheek thinking that Cyprus belongs to the Al Qaeda supporters , go to hell mate !
Israel has offered a 48 hours humanitarian ceasefire provided that Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel , did Hamas accept , did they hell ,
they want nothing but the total destruction of Israel , they are not going to achieve it , silly bastards.

Actually no, I think you'll find they want to have some hope that they will be free to live on the land bequeathed them by their forefathers, and to raise their children there in peace. If one of their stated 'aims' is 'the total destruction of Israel' at least they are honest about it, whereas the Israelis are already destroying the Palestinians year by year, decade by decade. Because a violent act is carried out by a uniformed soldier or air force pilot it doesn't make it any more 'right' than a desperate fighter who sees no hope for his people firing homemade rockets into the darkness. Israel is the master of the situation - they could stop the violence anytime if they took the right approach.

Talisker , are you not forgetting that the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and West bank a few years back , are you also forgetting the fact that Hamas wrestled Gaza , by violent means expelleing and murdering their own brotherhood , are you also forgeting that the West Bank IS making some progress towards stabilising the situation and making life easier for the Palestinian people.
Hamas is a terrosrist movement hell bent on destroying the state of Israel , after which they will proceed with the unfinished business with Fatah then who knows . They have jeopardise any chance of a peaceful outcome by refusing to continue with the ceasefire , by carrying on with indiscriminate rocket attacks , not aimed at any particular area just as as long as it lands in Israel.They are too consumed with intense hatred , these so called religious people , to see that their refusal to a ceasefire will lead to the destruction of Gaza and the continued and intensified suffering of their people.
Any suggestions as to the options available , other than the military ones , to Israel in order to bring an end to the daily rocket attacks on its southern areas ? Grin and bear it perhaps , or ask the Israelis , 7 million of them , to disband call it a day pack up and leave allowing the Palestinians amble room to carry on killing their kith and kin.
Please do tell me hat option other than military should have been exercised.

Miltiades, actually Hamas are a political organisation with a military wing. You are wrong if you consider them only to be terrorists. Don't forget, most inconceniently for the Israelis, the Americans and those with a natural prejudice against the Palestinians, Hamas won a surprise victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections in January 2006, taking 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, while the ruling Fatah party took 43. Fatah didn't like getting beaten in the election and, using illegal means, elected Hamas officials were ousted from their positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank. Hamas resisted this in Gaza - hence the near civil war situation that erupted. So George Bush and his ilk should either put up or shut up about the merits of democracy in the Middle East, because as Hamas won he chose to ignore the situation. Why is it inconvenient to have to deal with Hamas? Well, their Charter states, "the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it". The charter also states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." Those statements might be unpalatable for those with pro-Israeli views but if you believe in democracy then you have to respect the fact that this is is part of the package Palestinians were voting for, and expecting action on - in other words, Palestinians had been pushed into a corner so much (literally as well as metaphorically) that they were stating armed resistance was required.

You ask what other approaches the Israelis could use. Yesterday I wrote:

The only way to move ahead is to start trying to integrate, allow Palestinians to make a living in Israel (that wall has stopped this), provide opportunities to educate the children and provide medical help instead of suppress and humiliate. Such a move will require courage, and all the Israeli politicians prefer the chest-thumping military route - as I said already, someone with another vision is required. Rabin provided that (once he'd seen the light - he went from hardliner to provider of hope during his premiership, before some right-wing zionist murdered him), but there is no sign of anyone like him around. A pity, as the Israelis supported Rabin in his efforts to bring peace, so they can be persuaded to take this type of approach.

So I have given you an alternative approach the Israelis could take, and one that showed signs of progress before. Idealistic of course, but the Israelis have to take some risks themselves if they want peace.

I'm fully conversant with the make up of Hamas and its military wing .
I'm also fully conversant with its stated aims and it is these stated objectives that are having an impact on the road to peace and stability. No nation on earth will enter into negotiations with a Political or military entity that has as its objective the destruction of that nation. The crux of the matter is that Hamas does not want peace unless Israel is first prepared to commit suicide.
Israel , as you say ought to allow Palestinians to work in Israel but the wall you say is stopping them. Why I wonder did Israel built that wall , could it have anything to do with Palestinian suicide bombers ?
The Palestinian people deserve their own nation and so do the Israelis.
Peace can only be achieved when the extremists , Hamas and Hezbollah accept the right of Israel to exist.

[DT.]

Reverse the roles Miltiades, Would you afford the ENglish the same rights over Cyprus in the 50's? Why would the GC's not afford the British colony of Cyprus the right to exist under the Empire as it was fairly and justly acquired?

The British in the 50's could have posted your last post against EOKA. You were in Eoka weren't you?

[Talisker]

Maybe Cyprus will help out ? will they risk losing all that Israeli income.

Cyprus will be sending €150,000 to Palestinians and a boat has been coming and going taking supplies which may have been hit today.

As for your alleged “Israeli income”, the Israelis can shove it up where the sun don’t shine for all I care. I’d like to see their embassy expelled from Cyprus and all relations cut off.

Why , is Cyprus yours Mr Bin Laden, go to hell or better still go join Hamas and help them out .
What a bloody cheek thinking that Cyprus belongs to the Al Qaeda supporters , go to hell mate !
Israel has offered a 48 hours humanitarian ceasefire provided that Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel , did Hamas accept , did they hell ,
they want nothing but the total destruction of Israel , they are not going to achieve it , silly bastards.

Actually no, I think you'll find they want to have some hope that they will be free to live on the land bequeathed them by their forefathers, and to raise their children there in peace. If one of their stated 'aims' is 'the total destruction of Israel' at least they are honest about it, whereas the Israelis are already destroying the Palestinians year by year, decade by decade. Because a violent act is carried out by a uniformed soldier or air force pilot it doesn't make it any more 'right' than a desperate fighter who sees no hope for his people firing homemade rockets into the darkness. Israel is the master of the situation - they could stop the violence anytime if they took the right approach.

Talisker , are you not forgetting that the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and West bank a few years back , are you also forgetting the fact that Hamas wrestled Gaza , by violent means expelleing and murdering their own brotherhood , are you also forgeting that the West Bank IS making some progress towards stabilising the situation and making life easier for the Palestinian people.
Hamas is a terrosrist movement hell bent on destroying the state of Israel , after which they will proceed with the unfinished business with Fatah then who knows . They have jeopardise any chance of a peaceful outcome by refusing to continue with the ceasefire , by carrying on with indiscriminate rocket attacks , not aimed at any particular area just as as long as it lands in Israel.They are too consumed with intense hatred , these so called religious people , to see that their refusal to a ceasefire will lead to the destruction of Gaza and the continued and intensified suffering of their people.
Any suggestions as to the options available , other than the military ones , to Israel in order to bring an end to the daily rocket attacks on its southern areas ? Grin and bear it perhaps , or ask the Israelis , 7 million of them , to disband call it a day pack up and leave allowing the Palestinians amble room to carry on killing their kith and kin.
Please do tell me hat option other than military should have been exercised.

Miltiades, actually Hamas are a political organisation with a military wing. You are wrong if you consider them only to be terrorists. Don't forget, most inconceniently for the Israelis, the Americans and those with a natural prejudice against the Palestinians, Hamas won a surprise victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections in January 2006, taking 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, while the ruling Fatah party took 43. Fatah didn't like getting beaten in the election and, using illegal means, elected Hamas officials were ousted from their positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank. Hamas resisted this in Gaza - hence the near civil war situation that erupted. So George Bush and his ilk should either put up or shut up about the merits of democracy in the Middle East, because as Hamas won he chose to ignore the situation. Why is it inconvenient to have to deal with Hamas? Well, their Charter states, "the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it". The charter also states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." Those statements might be unpalatable for those with pro-Israeli views but if you believe in democracy then you have to respect the fact that this is is part of the package Palestinians were voting for, and expecting action on - in other words, Palestinians had been pushed into a corner so much (literally as well as metaphorically) that they were stating armed resistance was required.

You ask what other approaches the Israelis could use. Yesterday I wrote:

The only way to move ahead is to start trying to integrate, allow Palestinians to make a living in Israel (that wall has stopped this), provide opportunities to educate the children and provide medical help instead of suppress and humiliate. Such a move will require courage, and all the Israeli politicians prefer the chest-thumping military route - as I said already, someone with another vision is required. Rabin provided that (once he'd seen the light - he went from hardliner to provider of hope during his premiership, before some right-wing zionist murdered him), but there is no sign of anyone like him around. A pity, as the Israelis supported Rabin in his efforts to bring peace, so they can be persuaded to take this type of approach.

So I have given you an alternative approach the Israelis could take, and one that showed signs of progress before. Idealistic of course, but the Israelis have to take some risks themselves if they want peace.

I'm fully conversant with the make up of Hamas and its military wing .
I'm also fully conversant with its stated aims and it is these stated objectives that are having an impact on the road to peace and stability. No nation on earth will enter into negotiations with a Political or military entity that has as its objective the destruction of that nation. The crux of the matter is that Hamas does not want peace unless Israel is first prepared to commit suicide.
Israel , as you say ought to allow Palestinians to work in Israel but the wall you say is stopping them. Why I wonder did Israel built that wall , could it have anything to do with Palestinian suicide bombers ?
The Palestinian people deserve their own nation and so do the Israelis.
Peace can only be achieved when the extremists , Hamas and Hezbollah accept the right of Israel to exist.

The big mistake Israel has made is to humiliate and provoke the Palestinians so they become radicalised to the point where they would elect an organisation such as Hamas. Therefore Israel has to work out a way to reverse this situation - so far their approach is to use the missile and the bomb which will only radicalise the Palestinians further..........

And now the BBC has just announced the Israelis have rejected the idea of a 48 hour ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid to be distributed.........