Cyprus-Forum.com

[Talisker]

We all have our own experiences of that area. Mine is from a Jewish perspective with family and friends in Israel. We see checkpoints, soldiers on the streets and the carnage following the suicide bombers.
If it was as simple as giving back land or sharing land it would have been done years ago, but dealing with a people that want to see the annialiation of the Jew (1) is never easy.
Hamas have brought this upon there own people by instigating a defensive response (2) from Israel or is this point been lost on the majority on forum.

(1) Sorry, Purdey, this is a distortion of the truth. The Palestinians want their land back as they have been forcibly removed by the people intent on producing the nation state of Israel, who happen to be Jews. If it was the Eskimoes rather than the Jews then the Palestinians would still want their land returned. Don't equate Palestinians with Nazis - if the land issue wasn't there then the Palestinians would have no issue with 'the Jews'.

(2) Defensive response? BBC reports 391 Palestinian dead so far, 4 Israelis in same time period. It's gross to compare figures, but this is way beyond 'defensive response'.

If you'd had your land taken wouldn't you fight back, particularly if you were continuously oppressed? These people are being made to live in absolute squalor, with no hope of any improvement.

[Cem]

Reverse the roles Miltiades, Would you afford the ENglish the same rights over Cyprus in the 50's? Why would the GC's not afford the British colony of Cyprus the right to exist under the Empire as it was fairly and justly acquired?

The British in the 50's could have posted your last post against EOKA. You were in Eoka weren't you?

DT , a rather silly analogy here with all due respect.
Cyprus was a British colony and NOT the home of 7 million Brits with no other place to go to.

Israel since 1948 has been a member of the UN and recognised worldwide as a state in its own right.

I was an active member of ANE and my older brother was full activist in EOKA , along with all other movement members we subscribed to the removal of the Brits from Cyprus and NOT TO THE DESTRUCTION OF ANOTHER STATE.

Hamas came to power the last few years in Palestine Milt. You tell me the difference between those kids throwing rocks at the Israelis and the GC schoolchildren throwing rocks at the English in the 50's.

HUGE difference , we , in Cyprus were fighting in order to gain independence from Britain to whom Cyprus was a Colony. The kids in Gaza throwing stones , becoming suicide bombers etc, have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that the only solution that is acceptable is the annihilation of the state of Israel. The hate the Jews to such an extend that they will gladly detonate themselves in a nursery just as long as it was full of Israeli babies.
Let me tell you , us kids back in the 50s in Cyprus , were not mastered in hating the English , only in aspiring for Union with Greece .

There is not one iota of common ground that we shared with the Palestinians.
Let me also state the following. If ever a G/C leader , religious of political , was to proclaim that our children should be sent in the occupied areas of Cyprus as suicide bombers and indiscriminately set off their bombs in public places , restaurants and cafes on buses etc , I SHALL PERSONALLY SEEK TO ASSASSINATE SUCH PIECES OF SHIT AS THESE LEADERS.

I saw 2 funerals of kids yesturday similar to the ages of my kids. I wonder what would happen if they were Israeli.

Where's your humanity? Why do you tarnish these children's memories by labelling them all suicide bombers or future suicide bombers? Is an Israeli kid worth more? How much more?

I wonder whether you yourself have ever seen the funeral of blown up jewish kids scorched alive in school buses.

Think what would have happened to world support given to you, if G/C children had crossed to the north to blow themselves up amidts the crowd just because they are protesting the turkish occupation.

[miltiades]

Reverse the roles Miltiades, Would you afford the ENglish the same rights over Cyprus in the 50's? Why would the GC's not afford the British colony of Cyprus the right to exist under the Empire as it was fairly and justly acquired?

The British in the 50's could have posted your last post against EOKA. You were in Eoka weren't you?

DT , a rather silly analogy here with all due respect.
Cyprus was a British colony and NOT the home of 7 million Brits with no other place to go to.

Israel since 1948 has been a member of the UN and recognised worldwide as a state in its own right.

I was an active member of ANE and my older brother was full activist in EOKA , along with all other movement members we subscribed to the removal of the Brits from Cyprus and NOT TO THE DESTRUCTION OF ANOTHER STATE.

Hamas came to power the last few years in Palestine Milt. You tell me the difference between those kids throwing rocks at the Israelis and the GC schoolchildren throwing rocks at the English in the 50's.

HUGE difference , we , in Cyprus were fighting in order to gain independence from Britain to whom Cyprus was a Colony. The kids in Gaza throwing stones , becoming suicide bombers etc, have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that the only solution that is acceptable is the annihilation of the state of Israel. The hate the Jews to such an extend that they will gladly detonate themselves in a nursery just as long as it was full of Israeli babies.
Let me tell you , us kids back in the 50s in Cyprus , were not mastered in hating the English , only in aspiring for Union with Greece .

There is not one iota of common ground that we shared with the Palestinians.
Let me also state the following. If ever a G/C leader , religious of political , was to proclaim that our children should be sent in the occupied areas of Cyprus as suicide bombers and indiscriminately set off their bombs in public places , restaurants and cafes on buses etc , I SHALL PERSONALLY SEEK TO ASSASSINATE SUCH PIECES OF SHIT AS THESE LEADERS.

I saw 2 funerals of kids yesturday similar to the ages of my kids. I wonder what would happen if they were Israeli.

The fact that you've equated all Palestinian children who are opposing the invading forces (have you forgotten they are invading forces Milt) with suicide bombers leaves me indifferent to your argument.

The facts are there, Most of these kids and their families couldn't give a flying one if Israel existed or not, (most would want Israel to exist since a lot of their income stems from there. When they protest against a soldier who has the RIGHT to search anyone's house and arrest anyone they like, then they are not demonstrating against Israel, but for their own homeland.

Where's your humanity? Why do you tarnish these children's memories by labelling them all suicide bombers or future suicide bombers? Is an Israeli kid worth more? How much more?

The killing of civilians , men women and children is a despicable act and a crime against humanity .
Exposing innocent civilians to the risk of being the target of an attack against a rocket launch site is also a despicable act and a crime against humanity.
Children must be nourished in understanding and respecting the lives of all people including those of their perceived enemy. We have seen on our screens young children , even babies strapped up as suicide bombers and hoisted to the cheers of onlookers. What kind of a society are these children being driven into .
Let me make it abundantly clear that I consider the deliberate killing of innocent people a crime against humanity regardless who the victims or the perpetrators are . I believe in negotiations in order to reach a solution but I also believe in the right of a nation to defend its borders and primarily its citizens.
Let us hope that sense prevails and the killing stops with a ceasefire in place.

[DT.]

Reverse the roles Miltiades, Would you afford the ENglish the same rights over Cyprus in the 50's? Why would the GC's not afford the British colony of Cyprus the right to exist under the Empire as it was fairly and justly acquired?

The British in the 50's could have posted your last post against EOKA. You were in Eoka weren't you?

DT , a rather silly analogy here with all due respect.
Cyprus was a British colony and NOT the home of 7 million Brits with no other place to go to.

Israel since 1948 has been a member of the UN and recognised worldwide as a state in its own right.

I was an active member of ANE and my older brother was full activist in EOKA , along with all other movement members we subscribed to the removal of the Brits from Cyprus and NOT TO THE DESTRUCTION OF ANOTHER STATE.

Hamas came to power the last few years in Palestine Milt. You tell me the difference between those kids throwing rocks at the Israelis and the GC schoolchildren throwing rocks at the English in the 50's.

HUGE difference , we , in Cyprus were fighting in order to gain independence from Britain to whom Cyprus was a Colony. The kids in Gaza throwing stones , becoming suicide bombers etc, have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that the only solution that is acceptable is the annihilation of the state of Israel. The hate the Jews to such an extend that they will gladly detonate themselves in a nursery just as long as it was full of Israeli babies.
Let me tell you , us kids back in the 50s in Cyprus , were not mastered in hating the English , only in aspiring for Union with Greece .

There is not one iota of common ground that we shared with the Palestinians.
Let me also state the following. If ever a G/C leader , religious of political , was to proclaim that our children should be sent in the occupied areas of Cyprus as suicide bombers and indiscriminately set off their bombs in public places , restaurants and cafes on buses etc , I SHALL PERSONALLY SEEK TO ASSASSINATE SUCH PIECES OF SHIT AS THESE LEADERS.

I saw 2 funerals of kids yesturday similar to the ages of my kids. I wonder what would happen if they were Israeli.

The fact that you've equated all Palestinian children who are opposing the invading forces (have you forgotten they are invading forces Milt) with suicide bombers leaves me indifferent to your argument.

The facts are there, Most of these kids and their families couldn't give a flying one if Israel existed or not, (most would want Israel to exist since a lot of their income stems from there. When they protest against a soldier who has the RIGHT to search anyone's house and arrest anyone they like, then they are not demonstrating against Israel, but for their own homeland.

Where's your humanity? Why do you tarnish these children's memories by labelling them all suicide bombers or future suicide bombers? Is an Israeli kid worth more? How much more?

The killing of civilians , men women and children is a despicable act and a crime against humanity .
Exposing innocent civilians to the risk of being the target of an attack against a rocket launch site is also a despicable act and a crime against humanity.
Children must be nourished in understanding and respecting the lives of all people including those of their perceived enemy. We have seen on our screens young children , even babies strapped up as suicide bombers and hoisted to the cheers of onlookers. What kind of a society are these children being driven into .
Let me make it abundantly clear that I consider the deliberate killing of innocent people a crime against humanity regardless who the victims or the perpetrators are . I believe in negotiations in order to reach a solution but I also believe in the right of a nation to defend its borders and primarily its citizens.
Let us hope that sense prevails and the killing stops with a ceasefire in place.

in the right of a nation to defend its borders and primarily its citizens.

DO you consider the occupied West bank and the GAza strip as borders of Israel?

I'm not advocating suicide bombing FFS! The No36 bus was my bus from Marylebone to Old Street and 7/7 did not make me feel like a happy bunny.

[miltiades]

I was under the impression that the West Bank as well as the Gaza strip were run by Palestinians , Fatah on one side and Hamas on the other .
I firmly believe that Israel should withdraw back to its pre 1967 borders in exchange for recognition by the Palestinians and Arabs in general.
DT , I did not imply that you support suicide bombings , GR might and I,m sure he does but there again he is a complete nutter .

[Get Real!]

I suggested many times that those who don’t like suicide bombers consider giving them the latest weaponry…

[Get Real!]

Israel rejects truce call, attacks Gaza...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_ ... lestinians

[miltiades]

Israel rejects truce call, attacks Gaza...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_ ... lestinians

Israel Rejected a UNILATERAL CEASE FIRE ::
As per the link provided by GR here is some interesting reading:
Paphitis ought to take note of the casualty figures given :

"""Gaza officials say the five days of airstrikes have killed 390, including 200 uniformed members of Hamas security forces, and have wounded about 1,600. The U.N. says at least 60 Palestinian civilians are among the dead.

While rejecting the truce, Israel said it would allow 2,000 tons of food and medical supplies to enter Gaza on Wednesday, in addition to 4,000 tons the military says have been allowed in since the offensive began. Several dozen chronically ill Gazans have also been authorized to enter Israel for treatment Wednesday, the military said.

MOST IMPORTANTLY :

Olmert told ministers Israel launched the operation to fundamentally change the situation in the south, and would not leave the job half done with a unilateral cease-fire.

[Talisker]

If it wasn't so tragic it might even be worth trying to find some humour in all of this - Mark Steel captures the absurdity of the current situation in an article today in the Independent:

So what have the Palestinians got to complain about?
To portray this as a conflict between equals requires some imagination
Wednesday, 31 December 2008

When you read the statements from Israeli and US politicians, and try to match them with the pictures of devastation, there seems to be only one explanation. They must have one of those conditions, called something like "Visual Carnage Responsibility Back To Front Upside Down Massacre Disorder".

For example, Condoleezza Rice, having observed that more than 300 Gazans were dead, said: "We are deeply concerned about the escalating violence. We strongly condemn the attacks on Israel and hold Hamas responsible."

Someone should ask her to comment on teenage knife-crime, to see if she'd say: "I strongly condemn the people who've been stabbed, and until they abandon their practice of wandering around clutching their sides and bleeding, there is no hope for peace."

The Israeli government suffers terribly from this confusion. They probably have adverts on Israeli television in which a man falls off a ladder and screams, "Eeeeugh", then a voice says, "Have you caused an accident at work in the last 12 months?" and the bloke who pushed him gets £3,000.

The gap between the might of Israel's F-16 bombers and Apache helicopters, and the Palestinians' catapulty thing is so ridiculous that to try and portray the situation as between two equal sides requires the imagination of a children's story writer.

The reporter on News at Ten said the rockets "may be ineffective, but they ARE symbolic." So they might not have weapons but they have got symbolism, the canny brutes.

It's no wonder the Israeli Air Force had to demolish a few housing estates, otherwise Hamas might have tried to mock Israel through a performance of expressive dance.

The rockets may be unable to to kill on the scale of the Israeli Air Force, said one spokesman, but they are "intended to kill".

Maybe he went on: "And we have evidence that Hamas supporters have dreams, and that in these dreams bad things happen to Israeli citizens, they burst, or turn into cactus, or run through Woolworths naked, so it's not important whether it can happen, what matters is that they WANT it to happen, so we blew up their university."

Or there's the outrage that Hamas has been supported by Iran. Well that's just breaking the rules. Because say what you will about the Israelis, they get no arms supplies or funding or political support from a country that's more powerful than them, they just go their own way and make all their weapons in an arts and crafts workshop in Jerusalem.

But mostly the Israelis justify themselves with a disappointing lack of imagination, such as the line that they had to destroy an ambulance because Hamas cynically put their weapons inside ambulances.

They should be more creative, and say Hamas were planning to aim the flashing blue light at Israeli epileptics in an attempt to make them go into a fit, get dizzy and wander off into Syria where they would be captured.

But they prefer a direct approach, such as the statement from Ofer Schmerling, an Israeli Civil Defence official who said on al-Jazeera, "I shall play music and celebrate what the Israeli Air Force is doing."

Maybe they could turn it into a huge nationalfestival, with decorations and mince pies and shops playing "I Wish We Could Bomb Gaza Every Day".

In a similar tone Dov Weisglas, Ariel Sharon's chief of staff, referred to the siege of Gaza that preceded this bombing, a siege in which the Israelis prevented the population from receiving essential supplies of food, medicine, electricity and water, by saying, "We put them on a diet."

It's the arrogance of the East End gangster, so it wouldn't be out of character if the Israeli Prime Minister's press conference began: "Oh dear or dear. It looks like those Palestinians have had a little, er, accident. All their buildings have been knocked down – they want to be more careful, hee hee."

And almost certainly one of the reasons this is happening now is because the government wants to appear hard as it wants to win an election. Maybe with typical Israeli frankness they'll show a party political broadcast in which Ehud Olmert says, "This is why I think you should vote for me", then shows film of Gaza and yells: "Wa-hey, that bloke in the corner is on FIRE."

And Condoleezza Rice and her colleagues, and the specially appointed Middle East Peace Envoy, could then all shake their heads and say: "Disgraceful. The way he's flapping around like that could cause someone to have a nasty accident."

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 18135.html

[Get Real!]

Israel rejects truce call, attacks Gaza...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_ ... lestinians

Israel Rejected a UNILATERAL CEASE FIRE ::
As per the link provided by GR here is some interesting reading:
Paphitis ought to take note of the casualty figures given :

"""Gaza officials say the five days of airstrikes have killed 390, including 200 uniformed members of Hamas security forces, and have wounded about 1,600. The U.N. says at least 60 Palestinian civilians are among the dead.

While rejecting the truce, Israel said it would allow 2,000 tons of food and medical supplies to enter Gaza on Wednesday, in addition to 4,000 tons the military says have been allowed in since the offensive began. Several dozen chronically ill Gazans have also been authorized to enter Israel for treatment Wednesday, the military said.

MOST IMPORTANTLY :

Olmert told ministers Israel launched the operation to fundamentally change the situation in the south, and would not leave the job half done with a unilateral cease-fire.

U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the death toll was estimated at 320-390 and the number of injured at 1,500-1,900. Between 20 percent and 25 percent of the dead are either women or children, said Karen Abu Zayd, U.N. Relief and Works Agency commissioner.

I really think you should just SHUT UP.