Cyprus-Forum.com

[Medman]

To earlier posters.
Probably the best football pitch in Cyprus.
Lefkara.
Grandad farmed the field, don't know what he would've made of the football pitch though.

[Bananiot]

Kikapu, we are almost at the threshold of the new year and here I am replying to your last post. Here in Cyprus 2009 will come an hour earlier than Switzerland, won't it?

I think you have missed the main issue regarding the Inonu letter. The most important issue in my opinion is that the Turkish government did not lead the Turkish Cypriots to leave the government as we vociferously claim here in the Greek part of Cyprus. This shows clearly that the Turkish government was against this but Makarios on the other hand loved it. In a stroke, Cyprus became a Greek island and the dreaded enemy was contained within enclaves where they could rot to death.

I have been saying all along that we the Greek side stands accused of litterally colaborating with TMT and actually playing their game, because, we had an agenda too. We did not want the 1959 Constitution to work and we needed to show the world how unworkable it was. Can you not really see this Kikapu? Why do you think we placed bombs at various places in Nicosia and later accused the Turkish Cypriots of being the culprits? We had a dark agenda too Kikapu and it beats me why you cannot see this.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Its almost time here.

[denizaksulu]

To earlier posters.
Probably the best football pitch in Cyprus.
Lefkara.
Grandad farmed the field, don't know what he would've made of the football pitch though.

What a coincidence Medman.

If you have Google Earth. Bring up Anglissidhes to Max magnification. In Kato Anglissidhes near the first lot of houses, you will notice a football pitch. That was our Fig plantation and threshing field. I will try to post a Google Earth pic, but am not sure how to do it, yet. The fig trees were a great part of my past life.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, we are almost at the threshold of the new year and here I am replying to your last post. Here in Cyprus 2009 will come an hour earlier than Switzerland, won't it?

I think you have missed the main issue regarding the Inonu letter. The most important issue in my opinion is that the Turkish government did not lead the Turkish Cypriots to leave the government as we vociferously claim here in the Greek part of Cyprus. This shows clearly that the Turkish government was against this but Makarios on the other hand loved it. In a stroke, Cyprus became a Greek island and the dreaded enemy was contained within enclaves where they could rot to death.

I have been saying all along that we the Greek side stands accused of litterally colaborating with TMT and actually playing their game, because, we had an agenda too. We did not want the 1959 Constitution to work and we needed to show the world how unworkable it was. Can you not really see this Kikapu? Why do you think we placed bombs at various places in Nicosia and later accused the Turkish Cypriots of being the culprits? We had a dark agenda too Kikapu and it beats me why you cannot see this.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Its almost time here.

Happy New Year to you too Bananiot.

Lets hope for a better 2009 for all Cypriots and people in general around the world.

I do not need convincing, that the GC's did not like the 1959 Constitution. What majority of any country would like such a undemocratic and Racist constitution, not only against the majority, but against the minority also, so yes, I can see that very clearly indeed. The root of all our problems leads to that unworkable constitution. Sure events were staged to make believe the other side did the crime by placing bombs. This is why I continue to compare the Annan Plan to the 1959 constitution. In many ways, AP was worse and that was one of the reasons why the majority GC's said NO to it and the majority TC's said YES to it.

Lets hope for a better solution this time around Bananiot that one side does not benefit unfairly over the other, and it is true, that some compromises does need to be made, by both sides to get to the end game.!.

[Bananiot]

Kikapu, I got involved in this thread when forumer Askimwos posted the following:

Cyprus history is littered with stories like this one. Unfortunately, the 2 "motherlands" were the ones who had hidden agendas back then, of course acting as puppets of their NATO masters. The tragedy is that they have found partners in crime among the Cypriots, be it in the form of EOKA B and TMT who were prepared to kill their own mothers in order to blame the other side.

Fortunately, GC have seen the light and have managed to drift apart from the control of athens (maybe because they were the ones who paid the bigger price). I hope that TCs will follow this example soon and manage to do the same with Turkey.

I got involved in this order to show that during bad times the mother countries have dished out some sound advice. In this instance it was Turkey with Inonu behaving in a very responsible manner. At other times it was Greece who showed Makarios the path of sanity. Yet, we Cypriots always like to put the blame on others and we never accept our wrong doings. This is typically Cypriot. In fact I see it every day at schools. I have yet to come across a student who will admit to wrong doing and take the blame. An excuse is always at hand and I need to say this too, our kids always try to cheat during tests and if they are not caught they boast about it. When caught they bring all the important relatives into action in order to save their skin and this normally does the trick because we live in a society where everyone needs each other for a favour.

Askimwos claim is historically unfounded as a general rule. It is not productive to blame the mother countries. It would be very good for all of us and not only for our souls, to take at least some of the blame, for this will stop us from making the next mistake.

[zan]

Kikapu, we are almost at the threshold of the new year and here I am replying to your last post. Here in Cyprus 2009 will come an hour earlier than Switzerland, won't it?

I think you have missed the main issue regarding the Inonu letter. The most important issue in my opinion is that the Turkish government did not lead the Turkish Cypriots to leave the government as we vociferously claim here in the Greek part of Cyprus. This shows clearly that the Turkish government was against this but Makarios on the other hand loved it. In a stroke, Cyprus became a Greek island and the dreaded enemy was contained within enclaves where they could rot to death.

I have been saying all along that we the Greek side stands accused of litterally colaborating with TMT and actually playing their game, because, we had an agenda too. We did not want the 1959 Constitution to work and we needed to show the world how unworkable it was. Can you not really see this Kikapu? Why do you think we placed bombs at various places in Nicosia and later accused the Turkish Cypriots of being the culprits? We had a dark agenda too Kikapu and it beats me why you cannot see this.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Its almost time here.

Happy New Year to you too Bananiot.

Lets hope for a better 2009 for all Cypriots and people in general around the world.

I do not need convincing, that the GC's did not like the 1959 Constitution. What majority of any country would like such a undemocratic and Racist constitution, not only against the majority, but against the minority also, so yes, I can see that very clearly indeed. The root of all our problems leads to that unworkable constitution. Sure events were staged to make believe the other side did the crime by placing bombs. This is why I continue to compare the Annan Plan to the 1959 constitution. In many ways, AP was worse and that was one of the reasons why the majority GC's said NO to it and the majority TC's said YES to it.

Lets hope for a better solution this time around Bananiot that one side does not benefit unfairly over the other, and it is true, that some compromises does need to be made, by both sides to get to the end game.!.

For once and for all, get the meaning of democracy into your head. The Zurich agreement was achieved democratically....Democracy does not mean that one race or creed has to govern over another but decisions are taken by those it effects. Your American highjacking of the word is as infantile as believing in Santa. The Zurich agreement was conceived and signed democratically. Don't give me crap about it being forced on the Cypriot people because that is the way life works ALL the time. As democratically as it was formed it was undemocratically destroyed and we had our rights taken away undemocratically by force and murder. You seem to support this undemocratic action but then put on your Captain America cape and claim the word "democratic" as if it means anything to you...You are an hypocrite of the highest kind mate........Any more democratic bullshit from you and the whole island will sink!!!

[iceman]

The Zurich agreement was conceived and signed democratically. Don't give me crap about it being forced on the Cypriot people

Exactly..If the GC had the balls to stand up against the mighty British Empire and demand independence they should have had the balls to refuse a treaty they did not believe to be fair.
Stop using this "was forced on us" excuse.

[Oracle]

The Zurich agreement was conceived and signed democratically. Don't give me crap about it being forced on the Cypriot people

Exactly..If the GC had the balls to stand up against the mighty British Empire and demand independence they should have had the balls to refuse a treaty they did not believe to be fair.
Stop using this "was forced on us" excuse.

Zurich and London agreements were imposed on Turkish and Greek Cypriots and they had no chance apart from signing them.

http://web.deu.edu.tr/kibris/articles/conint.html

[T_C]

The Zurich agreement was conceived and signed democratically. Don't give me crap about it being forced on the Cypriot people

Exactly..If the GC had the balls to stand up against the mighty British Empire and demand independence they should have had the balls to refuse a treaty they did not believe to be fair.
Stop using this "was forced on us" excuse.

I TOTALLY agree...

As if Cypriots are the type of people that can be forced to do anything!

I'd go as far as saying that they knew exactly what they were signing. Independence was the last thing on GCs minds. It was their way of trying to achieve Enosis through the "back door".

[Nikitas]

"The Zurich agreement was conceived and signed democratically. "

Conceived by whom? Obviously not by the Cypriots themselves. Signed under duress according to the biographers of both Karamanlis and Makarios. The former pressed the latter to sign it, so that was duress of sorts.

It could be said that the crushing majority won by Makarios in the first elections was a retroactive approval given by the people to the signing of the Zurich agreements. It is a tenuous link to democratic principle.

Democracy is not an abstract notion, it has concrete and precise fundamentals, paramount of which is the principle that ALL power stems from the sovereignty of the people. This sovereignty was not exercised by the Cypriots of either community in 1959.

Today democracy is defined by additional principles, like those embodied in the European Convention of Human Rights, the EU acquis, the UN Charter along with popular sovereignty. Both the 1959 constitution and the Annan plan violated these basics of democracy. The imposed ethnic criteria for president and vice president are obvious violations.

And now that we come this far, and the GCs have not achieved Enosis via the back door, can any one here doubt that Turkey and the TCs have in fact achieved both Enosis and Taksim via both the front and back door? Can anyone deny that this had been their plan all along? The GC extremists failed, but it is also plain that the TC extremists have succeded.