Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

I found this analysis of the Cyprus problem at the website of a Greek organisation known as ΑΝΤΙΕΘΝΙΚΙΣΤΙΚΗ ΚΙΝΗΣΗ (Antinationalist Movement). It is good to see that there are progressive Greeks who are prepared to challenge received paradigms.

http://www.sitemaker.gr/antiethnikistik ... oodyco.doc

[Cem]

I found this analysis of the Cyprus problem at the website of a Greek organisation known as ΑΝΤΙΕΘΝΙΚΙΣΤΙΚΗ ΚΙΝΗΣΗ (Antinationalist Movement). It is good to see that there are progressive Greeks who are prepared to challenge received paradigms.

http://www.sitemaker.gr/antiethnikistik ... oodyco.doc

Sorry Tim, I am far from being at the point of cheering for such a movement.

Would you also be so kind to have a look at the following (regressive)websites and translate (at least) the headings ?

http://www.laos.gr/

http://www.e-grammes.gr/

Now, which are dominant in Greece ?

[Piratis]

Tim, those people just copy the Turkish propaganda. Nothing more.

It is well known that the inter-communal conflict was started by the TCs in 1958 (just 80 years after their oppressive rule over us had ended), collaborating with the new rulers of Cyprus (British) in order to once again deny the self-determination to the Cypriot people and have gains on the loss of the native Cypriots.

The Cypriot people had previously forgiven the Turks for the oppression against us, and until they decided to attack us again in the 1950s, GCs and TCs were living peacefully together, often in mixed villages.

Of course the peace ended when they attacked us again and we had to fight back. What did those people expect? For this small minority to collaborate with foreigners in order to deny from us our rights, and us to just sit in apathy and accept to have our rights taken away?

We are ready to forgive again the Turks, and accept their minority to live as equal citizens in Cyprus, with their full human and minority rights (rights which Turkey doesn't give to its own minorities).

However we will not accept anything imposed to us by foreigners, nor we will accept that a small minority can have unfair and disproportional "Ottoman Style" privileges on the expense of every other Cypriot, just because the Turks and the British want to reward them for helping them to oppress the Cypriot revolution. Such thing is an obvious racist discrimination against us and no decent Cypriot can accept it.

If "Nationalism" means not to accept that foreigners can run your country, then yes we are nationalists, just like they are in France, UK, Russia, USA and in every other country in the world which wants to run its own affairs in a democratic way and not to be ruled by foreigners.

[Talisker]

I found this analysis of the Cyprus problem at the website of a Greek organisation known as ΑΝΤΙΕΘΝΙΚΙΣΤΙΚΗ ΚΙΝΗΣΗ (Antinationalist Movement). It is good to see that there are progressive Greeks who are prepared to challenge received paradigms.

http://www.sitemaker.gr/antiethnikistik ... oodyco.doc

Interesting to read this Tim, and thanks for bringing it to our attention. Do you know if there are there equivalent groups in Turkey providing an anti-establishment view of events in those, and subsequent, troubled years?

[miltiades]

Tim, those people just copy the Turkish propaganda. Nothing more.

It is well known that the inter-communal conflict was started by the TCs in 1958 (just 80 years after their oppressive rule over us had ended), collaborating with the new rulers of Cyprus (British) in order to once again deny the self-determination to the Cypriot people and have gains on the loss of the native Cypriots.

The Cypriot people had previously forgiven the Turks for the oppression against us, and until they decided to attack us again in the 1950s, GCs and TCs were living peacefully together, often in mixed villages.

Of course the peace ended when they attacked us again and we had to fight back. What did those people expect? For this small minority to collaborate with foreigners in order to deny from us our rights, and us to just sit in apathy and accept to have our rights taken away?

We are ready to forgive again the Turks, and accept their minority to live as equal citizens in Cyprus, with their full human and minority rights (rights which Turkey doesn't give to its own minorities).

However we will not accept anything imposed to us by foreigners, nor we will accept that a small minority can have unfair and disproportional "Ottoman Style" privileges on the expense of every other Cypriot, just because the Turks and the British want to reward them for helping them to oppress the Cypriot revolution. Such thing is an obvious racist discrimination against us and no decent Cypriot can accept it.

If "Nationalism" means not to accept that foreigners can run your country, then yes we are nationalists, just like they are in France, UK, Russia, USA and in every other country in the world which wants to run its own affairs in a democratic way and not to be ruled by foreigners.

Piratis , did Makarios in his notorious speech in Panayia make the comments regarding T/Cs attributed to him ?

[Piratis]

Tim, those people just copy the Turkish propaganda. Nothing more.

It is well known that the inter-communal conflict was started by the TCs in 1958 (just 80 years after their oppressive rule over us had ended), collaborating with the new rulers of Cyprus (British) in order to once again deny the self-determination to the Cypriot people and have gains on the loss of the native Cypriots.

The Cypriot people had previously forgiven the Turks for the oppression against us, and until they decided to attack us again in the 1950s, GCs and TCs were living peacefully together, often in mixed villages.

Of course the peace ended when they attacked us again and we had to fight back. What did those people expect? For this small minority to collaborate with foreigners in order to deny from us our rights, and us to just sit in apathy and accept to have our rights taken away?

We are ready to forgive again the Turks, and accept their minority to live as equal citizens in Cyprus, with their full human and minority rights (rights which Turkey doesn't give to its own minorities).

However we will not accept anything imposed to us by foreigners, nor we will accept that a small minority can have unfair and disproportional "Ottoman Style" privileges on the expense of every other Cypriot, just because the Turks and the British want to reward them for helping them to oppress the Cypriot revolution. Such thing is an obvious racist discrimination against us and no decent Cypriot can accept it.

If "Nationalism" means not to accept that foreigners can run your country, then yes we are nationalists, just like they are in France, UK, Russia, USA and in every other country in the world which wants to run its own affairs in a democratic way and not to be ruled by foreigners.

Piratis , did Makarios in his notorious speech in Panayia make the comments regarding T/Cs attributed to him ?

I wasn't there, so I don't know.

But if he did, that seems to be a quite correct observation. We forgave the Turks for denying our freedom once already, but they didn't appreciate it. On the other hand, the Cretans have exhibited a less forgiving approach and they don't have any problems today.

I hope that the TCs will soon accept to be equal Cypriot citizens without privileges granted to them by foreigners on our expense, so we can all live together in peace. Unfortunately it seems that they want to win a war on our loss, and in that case we have to fight this war and defeat them. If I had to choose between the ethnic cleansing of 200.000 GCs and the ethnic cleansing of 120.000 TCs, then I would choose the second. Lets hope that the TCs will not force us to make such choice.

[miltiades]

Neither was I in Panayia Piratis , but I have read the notorious speech in a number of publications and I'm convinced that he did indeed say those things. The fact of the matter is that there are many G/Cs who support the contents of such a speech , I'm not one of them. Dreadful mistakes were made and the penalties have been excruciatingly painful as we know.

The T/Cs have to abandon their addictive to Turkey habits just as the G/Cs have to do likewise with Greece.
Bir , Kikapu , Utu , Cem , Iceman , Kafenes you and Kifeas as well as scores of other Cypriots are my compatriots who as far as I'm concerned are all part of the majority , that of the Cypriots.
Merry Christmas .

[Kifeas]

I found this analysis of the Cyprus problem at the website of a Greek organisation known as ΑΝΤΙΕΘΝΙΚΙΣΤΙΚΗ ΚΙΝΗΣΗ (Antinationalist Movement). It is good to see that there are progressive Greeks who are prepared to challenge received paradigms.

http://www.sitemaker.gr/antiethnikistik ... oodyco.doc

Well, this is the conclusion of this idiot's article.

During the forthcoming talks on the island's entry into the European Union, the Republic of Cyprus will have two questions to answer.

Since the Cypriot government refuses

1) either to recognise the Turkish Cypriot state
or
2) to countenance a loose Greek-Turkish Cypriot confederation.

Which of the two remaining solutions has it in mind"?

1) That the Turkish Cypriots should return to the villages in which they were living before 1963?
or
2) That the Turkish Cypriots should return to the enclaves in which they were confined for eleven years?

After having read all the Turkish propaganda, as it is evident from his sources at the end of his article, this idiot with a Greekified name came up with the above four (4) so called options, which reflect the most nationalist and irredentist Turkish views on the Cyprus problem.

Do take note of the fact that the only option which was agreed by the leaderships of the two communities, since 1977, and passed into all the subsequent UN SC resolutions on Cyprus, i.e. that of a bi-communal and a Bi-zonal FEDERATION, with subsequent full respect of human political and cultural rights of all Cypriots anywhere in their country, as all the CoE Human Rights protocols and the EU fundamental principles provide, IS NOT one of his proposed options.

Instead, the so-called anti-nationalist idiot has only proposed the Denktash and Turkish nationalistic proposition and pursuit for a solution based on a "loose Greek-Turkish Cypriot confederation," as an "alternative" to partition through recognizing the "TRNC."

I suggest nobody take him any seriously, for he is basically an instrument of the Turkish propaganda using his Greekified name to create a stronger impression.

[Tim Drayton]

I found this analysis of the Cyprus problem at the website of a Greek organisation known as ΑΝΤΙΕΘΝΙΚΙΣΤΙΚΗ ΚΙΝΗΣΗ (Antinationalist Movement). It is good to see that there are progressive Greeks who are prepared to challenge received paradigms.

http://www.sitemaker.gr/antiethnikistik ... oodyco.doc

Interesting to read this Tim, and thanks for bringing it to our attention. Do you know if there are there equivalent groups in Turkey providing an anti-establishment view of events in those, and subsequent, troubled years?

The only thing that I have ever come across is a document from the Turkish Communist Party analysing the situation in Cyprus ,which is truly iconoclastic and also breaches article 305 of the Turkish Penal Code under which it is an offence to even speak of the occupation of Cyprus. The whole document (in Turkish) is here:

http://www.t-k-p.org/arsiv/kibris.htm

Here is a quote from this document, with translation:

Etnik temizliğin ikinci aşaması 1974 yılında Türkiye’nin Kuzey Kıbrıs’ı işgali ile yaşandı. Çıkartma ile başlayan 20 Temmuz ‘Barış’ Harekatı ile onu izleyen 14 Ağustos 2. ‘Barış’ Harekatı etnik temizlik planını uygulamaya koydu. İşgal ordusu, Kuzeyde yaşan yaklaşık 200,000 Rum’u şiddet yoluyla Güneye sürdü ve bugünkü sınırı belirledi. Ateşkesin ardından yapılan nüfus değişimi anlaşmalarıyla Güneyde kalan 30,000 dolayındaki Kıbrıslı Türkün Kuzeye geçişi sağlandı. Kan akıtılarak sağlanan etnik temizlik ve önceden ayrıntılarına kadar planlanmış sınırın zor yoluyla çekilmesi Kıbrıs halklarını birbirinden ayırdı.

TRANSLATION

The second phase of ethnic cleansing was experienced with Turkey's occupation of North Cyprus in 1974. The 20 July 'Peace' Operation that started with the landing, and the 14 August 2nd 'Peace' Operation that followed it set about implementing the ethnic cleansing plan. The occupation army violently drove some 200,000 Greek Cypriots living in the North to the South and established today's border. In the exchange of populations that followed the ceasefire, arrangements were made for some 30,000 Turkish Cypriots remaining in the South to move to the North. By means of ethnic cleansing achieved through bloodshed and the forcible establishment of a border that was previously planned to the minutest detail, the Cypriot peoples were separated from one another.

[Tim Drayton]

I found this analysis of the Cyprus problem at the website of a Greek organisation known as ΑΝΤΙΕΘΝΙΚΙΣΤΙΚΗ ΚΙΝΗΣΗ (Antinationalist Movement). It is good to see that there are progressive Greeks who are prepared to challenge received paradigms.

http://www.sitemaker.gr/antiethnikistik ... oodyco.doc

Sorry Tim, I am far from being at the point of cheering for such a movement.

Would you also be so kind to have a look at the following (regressive)websites and translate (at least) the headings ?

http://www.laos.gr/

http://www.e-grammes.gr/

Now, which are dominant in Greece ?

For Pete's sake, I am simply glad to see that some people are capable of thinking out of the box and challenging preconceived ideas, just as I am glad that the Turkish Cypriot community has its Şener Levent. Merry Christmas to everybody.