Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Bir,

Acknowledging the events of 1963 and the atrocities is one thing. Relying on a source like Gibbons, who does not hesitate to print obvious lies (ie the National Guard had 300 tanks) and inflated victim figures is another and is doing us all harm.

We do not need people like Gibbons to know what happened. More than that, we should not rely on his ilk to find our conscience.

[Tim Drayton]

I have read the book, 'The Genocide Files' hesitatingly. I can see clearly why GR and his ilk have a dislike to it. They dont like what they read; the truth does hurt. There must be some truth in there, otherwise why feel so strong about it.

I am really surprised, no ... shocked and disappointed by your view Deniz

Have a look at this from Tim's review source ....

By Matthew Stowell -

Your readers should be aware that the author of this book, Mr. Gibbons, is well-known only to Turkish Cypriots and mainland Turks. He is not considered a serious author in any other part of the world, including his native Britain. Since the 1970s he has been a well-paid propagandist for the Turkish Cypriot cause and his book is 95 percent fiction. These files that he claims to have found, and upon which he bases his book, never existed. They are akin to the "Hitler Diaries" of a few years ago. Except in Northern Cyprus and Turkey (and the Internet) you will not find his book for sale. It is common practice for Turkey to appropriate atrocity stories from other wars and other countries, change the names and locations, and claim them as their own. It is a shame that this packet of lies posing as a timely document is on the market and thus able to
contribute to the further brainwashing of Turkish Cypriots and their supporters. There are many other fine books on the subject, esp. The Cyprus Conspiracy.

Why shocked Oracle. I said I read it hesitatingly after the book was given to me to read and comment. The title speaks for itself. I for one do not agree that 'genocide' ever took place in Cyprus. Murders/massacres/ethnic cleansing, yes. Genocde NO. Some of the events did take place and some I have no idea. Which? I cant recall at the moment. As to the authors credibilty, its not up to me to judge.

Lets say, 'where there is no fire, there is no smoke'. Somewhere in that book, there is some truth. Unfortunately.

The main problem with the book, isn't it Deniz, that it is totally one sided and protrays the Greek Cypriots 100% as villains and the Turkish Cypriots 100% as victims? Actually I have never read it, so I cannot comment too much. I will try to take at a least a glance at it.

[Tim Drayton]

your feelings about tcs is no diferent than tcs feeling you greeks/cypriots. we think you are the scum of this planet. you lie, you dsitort history, you thing you are superior when you're just paesents, the list is endles. all the reason to stay separate no?

Are you a Turkish Cypriot, lovernomore? I thought you previously said that your wife was, but you weren't. What's with the "we" in that case?

[Kifeas]

Why are people splitting hairs with someone’s book and his claims, as if we do not know ourselves what happened, or as if there are no credible and /or neutral sources through which to research the 1963-1974 period? The UN was in Cyprus since the very beginning of the intercommunal conflict, first under the British forces stationed in Cyprus and later (March 1964) as a multinational force, and they always prepared 3 and 6 month regular reports and special occasional reports on every event that used to take place, be it of political, military, humanitarian or social nature. If anyone has the time to go through those reports, will notice that there is actually nothing that is being left out, including even the occasional exchange of a few rifle shots on the air between two sentries along the green line or in a remote village of Cyprus.

For those who wish to research, here is the website of the UN from which they can download those reports branded as Regular or Special Reports of the Secretary-General to the UN SC on Cyprus, plus all the exchange of letters and resolutions on Cyprus for the entire period of the Cyprus question.

http://documents.un.org/advance.asp

For those that may need help in using the above search page, if for example you want to know what happened between let’s say August and December 1964, you insert the relevant dates in the “Publication date” fields; then if what you are interested to look at is any UN reporting on the events, you insert the word “Report” in the “Words of the title” field. In the field named as “subject” you always insert “Cyprus question,” to exclude any non relevant documents. Likewise, if you are interested in finding a UN resolution during the search period, you write in the “Words of the title” field the word “resolution.”

If you happen to know the serial number of the document, i.e for example the famous Galo Plaza report which has the document code “S/6253”, then you insert this code in the “Symbol” field, and live all other fields empty, including the “publication date” ones.

Have fun, and you will no longer need Harry Gibons “Genocide files,” or anybody else’s propaganda, to find out the truth!

PS: Another very good neutral source is the “Keesing's World News Archives” http://www.keesings.com/ but you need to register to become a member, with a relatively small fee, in order to be able to download the full text of the reports.

Also, a very good book published recently is Martin Packard’s book “Getting It Wrong: Fragments from a Cyprus Diary 1964” which you can buy the electronic version for only $ 5.95 from this website: http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/It ... 43870.aspx

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

Acknowledging the events of 1963 and the atrocities is one thing. Relying on a source like Gibbons, who does not hesitate to print obvious lies (ie the National Guard had 300 tanks) and inflated victim figures is another and is doing us all harm.

We do not need people like Gibbons to know what happened. More than that, we should not rely on his ilk to find our conscience.

I agree with you,Nikitas...I know nothing about this person Gibbons,and I have never read anything by him...If he is just churning out Turkish propaganda of course he is doing us more harm than good...But I was talking in general...Oracle and GR! (to a lesser extend) are doing exactly what this Gibbons person is doing...They see everything through the eyes of an extreme Greek nationalist....And they are doing us more harm (at least on this forum) than Gibbons...As far as they are concerned Turks and TC are the villains,have always been villains,and if they did suffer it was their own fault anyway....You must see how negative they are about anything Turkish and TC...Oracle doesn't even see a difference between the two...

[Oracle]

GR's and Oracle's antics have become simply bizzare and laughable...
If they don't like the message,they attack the messenger...
The messenger does not exist,or if he/she does he is a stooge,and very discreditable...No source on the internet is credible or independent enough,if they don't agree with its contents...I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY MINDS AS CLOSED AS THESE TWO'S...I HAVENT SEEN ANY MIND AS TOTALLY ONE-SIDED AS THESE TWO'S...NO WONDER THEY CANNOT SLEEP AT NIGHT... THEY MUST BE WONDERING WHY EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD DO NOT SEE THINGS AS THEY DO...AND WORRY AND WORRY AND WORRY...

Such are the sources of fiction you wish to see elevated as History?

An answer to all your prayers ... a record of how things should have been so that you can truly play your pathetic "empathy" card because of how you were so wronged.

Quit with the Capital letters Bir, you will burst with joy as you savour all the empathy for the Genocides your people have been suffering stoically, all this time, with the world completely unaware, until a Gibbon told them.

Bir you are a fantasist and so is Dirty Harry, and I can see very well how your thinking associates with such a liar and a distorter of the truth and above all now, a well-known Turkish propagandist.

[Tim Drayton]

Here is some prose attributed to Harry Scott Gibbons. It beggars belief that a person who is incapable of writing coherently could work as a journalist in the English-speaking world. It doesn't even sound to me like the work of a native English speaker.

Bir, I take the point you are making, but if Gibbons is just a front for Turkish propaganda, then he is doing more harm than good.

http://mb.sparknotes.com/mb.epl?b=49&m= ... 239475&w=1

The Mathiati Massacre

The brutality in Mathiati village of Nicosia where 208 Turks lived was expressed as below by Gibbons:

"(...) three Turks were seriously injured at the first minutes. When Turks burst out of their white, small houses into the streets, the screaming and cursing crowd began to push and kick them along the way. The terrified Turks who fell down on the floor as a result of riffle butt strikes were dragged across the streets while the crowd stormed into houses, pulled burning logs out of the furnaces and set curtains and beds on fire. The old wooden roof beams were surrounded by smoke and then flames. Barefoot women mostly in nightgowns were also pushed here and there on the burning streets, either holding tight their terrified little babies or with their toddlers catching the ends of their nightgowns or trousers and following them together with others dragging their injured away.

Greek youngsters host at the houses hysterically and yelled madly with hoarse voices. Before the flames completely covered the houses, they materialized into the houses, broken things and grabbing valuable goods. The wild sounds coming from the back of the houses attracted he attention of the assailants to the animals of Turks. They stomped into the barns and raked cows, sheep and goats with machine guns. They threw the chickens into the air and shot them while they desperately cackled and struggled. Their bodies broke into pieces and feathers covered everywhere.

The crowd screamed and yelled in a bloodthirsty manner. Turks were dragged through the frozen streets out of the village. They were left in pain around Kochatis, another Turkish village. The Kochatis villagers hurried out of their houses to help their neighbors while the crowd headed back to Mathiati to continue the plunder and all the madness". (H. Scott Gibbons, Peace Without Honor, Ankara, 1969, p. 31).

Ayvasıl Massacre

Gibbons observations on the Ayvasıl (Ayios Vasilios) village massacre quotes as follows:

"Weapon sounds were heard. They broke locked doors with rifle butts and dragged people onto the streets. A 70 year-old Turk awoke to the sound of its broken front door. He teetered out of his bedroom before he was asked if he had any children by many youngsters with arms. Dumbfounded, he pronounced "Yes". "Send them out" they ordered. Tow sons of his, 19 and 17, and her only daughter, 10 got dressed hurriedly and followed the armed men out.

They were lined up near the farm fence and shot dead with machine guns by those armed men. In another house, they found a 13 year-old boy, tied his hands at his back, knelt him down. They plundered the house, kicked and raped the boy and shot him at the head.

That night, 12 Turks were slaughtered in Ayios Vasilios. Others were gathered and pushed out of the village to take refuge in Turks in Skylloura. Barefooted, with their pajamas and nightgowns on, they teetered to proceed in the cold. The Greek cypriots fired at them in the dark.

The armed men headed for the Turkish houses. They plundered and destroyed the houses and when they got exhausted, they set the houses on fire. Nine more Turks that lived in the surrounding farmhouses were killed in the same region". (H. Scott Gibbons, Peace Without Honor, p. 73).

The Kumsal Massacre

Gibbons wrote as follows about the Kumsal massacre:

"Armed men broke the doors and stormed into Turkish houses, kicking, beating, punching and cursing at them. The retreat from Kumsal began. Once more, dazed and appalled families that resembled those facing debacle in Europe by Nazi attacks were on cold streets rifles burst and machine guns raffled.

They were slipping and falling down. They began to run away, seeking support from one another. The screams of a woman echoed on the street, who squealed "Is not there anyone to help, Gor God's sake?"

159 inhabitants of Kumsal Turks could not make it to run away that night. Four people in the bathroom were killed apart from the landlady and four other people. 150 people were taken hostage. No one ever saw some of the hostages again. (H. Scott Gibbons, Peace Without Honor, p. 74).

[Oracle]

Bir,

Acknowledging the events of 1963 and the atrocities is one thing. Relying on a source like Gibbons, who does not hesitate to print obvious lies (ie the National Guard had 300 tanks) and inflated victim figures is another and is doing us all harm.

We do not need people like Gibbons to know what happened. More than that, we should not rely on his ilk to find our conscience.

I agree with you,Nikitas...I know nothing about this person Gibbons,and I have never read anything by him...If he is just churning out Turkish propaganda of course he is doing us more harm than good...But I was talking in general...Oracle and GR! (to a lesser extend) are doing exactly what this Gibbons person is doing...They see everything through the eyes of an extreme Greek nationalist....And they are doing us more harm (at least on this forum) than Gibbons...As far as they are concerned Turks and TC are the villains,have always been villains,and if they did suffer it was their own fault anyway....You must see how negative they are about anything Turkish and TC...Oracle doesn't even see a difference between the two...

Utter nonsense Bir, as you try to deflate down from the joy you feel, at having other people who do not know the real History of Cyprus, believe you TCs were justified in the cataclysm you subsequently dished on us ..... based on such imaginary foundations.

Until Nikitas pointed out your idiocy, you also, along with others who should have known better, did not condemn this "author" as the purveyor of anything but, propaganda.

So stop trying to ridicule GR! and myself because we happen to know what a fantasist you are who relishes any fiction!

Is this proof that the truth really does not matter to Turks?

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

Acknowledging the events of 1963 and the atrocities is one thing. Relying on a source like Gibbons, who does not hesitate to print obvious lies (ie the National Guard had 300 tanks) and inflated victim figures is another and is doing us all harm.

We do not need people like Gibbons to know what happened. More than that, we should not rely on his ilk to find our conscience.

I agree with you,Nikitas...I know nothing about this person Gibbons,and I have never read anything by him...If he is just churning out Turkish propaganda of course he is doing us more harm than good...But I was talking in general...Oracle and GR! (to a lesser extend) are doing exactly what this Gibbons person is doing...They see everything through the eyes of an extreme Greek nationalist....And they are doing us more harm (at least on this forum) than Gibbons...As far as they are concerned Turks and TC are the villains,have always been villains,and if they did suffer it was their own fault anyway....You must see how negative they are about anything Turkish and TC...Oracle doesn't even see a difference between the two...

Utter nonsense Bir, as you try to deflate down from the joy you feel, at having other people who do not know the real History of Cyprus, believe you TCs were justified in the cataclysm you subsequently dished on us ..... based on such imaginary foundations.

Until Nikitas pointed out your idiocy, you also, along with others who should have known better, did not condemn this "author" as the purveyor of anything but, propaganda.

So stop trying to ridicule GR! and myself because we happen to know what a fantasist you are who relishes any fiction!

Is this proof that the truth really does not matter to Turks?

There you go again,Oracle...Talking in dismissive and insulting terms about Turks...I will let the Turks(if there are any on this Forum) defend themselves..As a Cypriot of Turkish-speaking background I find your persistent fanatical and one -eyed views repulsive and insulting to my intelligence...You are the last person who can speak about objectivity or comdemn those who participate in propaganda...You are the master of subjectivity and Greek propaganda yourself...I had never heard of this person Gibbons before..You can believe it or not,that is your business...
But if he is damaging the peace efforts at large,you are doing twice the damage here in this Forum...And I have an idea you know what you are doing and enjoying your hate-mongering intensely...It is pitiful...

[doesntmatter]

Bir,

Acknowledging the events of 1963 and the atrocities is one thing. Relying on a source like Gibbons, who does not hesitate to print obvious lies (ie the National Guard had 300 tanks) and inflated victim figures is another and is doing us all harm.

We do not need people like Gibbons to know what happened. More than that, we should not rely on his ilk to find our conscience.

I agree with you,Nikitas...I know nothing about this person Gibbons,and I have never read anything by him...If he is just churning out Turkish propaganda of course he is doing us more harm than good...But I was talking in general...Oracle and GR! (to a lesser extend) are doing exactly what this Gibbons person is doing...They see everything through the eyes of an extreme Greek nationalist....And they are doing us more harm (at least on this forum) than Gibbons...As far as they are concerned Turks and TC are the villains,have always been villains,and if they did suffer it was their own fault anyway....You must see how negative they are about anything Turkish and TC...Oracle doesn't even see a difference between the two...

Utter nonsense Bir, as you try to deflate down from the joy you feel, at having other people who do not know the real History of Cyprus, believe you TCs were justified in the cataclysm you subsequently dished on us ..... based on such imaginary foundations.

Until Nikitas pointed out your idiocy, you also, along with others who should have known better, did not condemn this "author" as the purveyor of anything but, propaganda.

So stop trying to ridicule GR! and myself because we happen to know what a fantasist you are who relishes any fiction!

Is this proof that the truth really does not matter to Turks?

There you go again,Oracle...Talking in dismissive and insulting terms about Turks...I will let the Turks(if there are any on this Forum) defend themselves..As a Cypriot of Turkish-speaking background I find your persistent fanatical and one -eyed views repulsive and insulting to my intelligence...You are the last person who can speak about objectivity or comdemn those who participate in propaganda...You are the master of subjectivity and Greek propaganda yourself...I had never heard of this person Gibbons before..You can believe it or not,that is your business...
But if he is damaging the peace efforts at large,you are doing twice the damage here in this Forum...And I have an idea you know what you are doing and enjoying your hate-mongering intensely...It is pitiful...

You have been blind and dumb and still are, you are a fool to yourself Birkibrisli. You have helped these racist Greeks and GCs hate the Turks and the TCs and you are still doing it.