Cyprus-Forum.com

[lovernomore]

Paphitis, I have a complete disrespect of the Turkish media and publications, as they are nothing more than a factory of fabrications and distortions for the sole aim of blinding and disorienting the Turkish people. When it comes to Cyprus, 99% of the cases they are out of this planet when it comes to their analyses and claims on facts. I have a strong feeling the case of Alex. Downer is one of those rare 1% cases in which they do not lie. I learned so well in which cases they lie or distort for propaganda purposes, and in which they do not, to the extent that I can recognise immediately as soon as I read something if they do the one or the other. The few doubts I had when I first read those reports in Hurriyet, yesterday morning, vanished as soon as I watch Downer's "rejection" comments on TV last night. He was not convincing at all, that he did not say those things.

I am very glad to notice that the your posts are merely expressing an opinion which you are entitled to convey.

I can assure you that Alexander Downers reply was what I would have expected from him when answering very sensitive questions. His mannerisms and the look on his face as though he expected this question seems to indicate to me, that he does not seem to be lying as far as I am concerned. However, I will look into this matter, not by monitoring the media, but I shall be asking some questions to persons in Australia who speak to him on a weekly basis while he is playing Golf.

Downer will play an important role, when things come to a dead-lock and he will be required to submit a report to the UN SG and the UN SC in which to administer blame for the impasse. After what he said, I no longer trust he will do his job with the outmost integrity that is required for his role! He will try to safeguard Turkey's interests and throw the blame on both sides equally, even though it is clear that the Turkish side comes to the negotiating table with profoundly extreme, unreasonable and illegitimate demands.

Every word you state above is completely correct. He will in fact be submitting regular reports to the UN SG and the UN SC.

As for what he has allegedly said to the Turkish media, this is highly contentious. It also seems to go against everything I would expect of him.

Alexander Downer has also come across as a very Genuine individual who also can claim to have his integrity intact over the 12 years he was Australian Foreign Affairs Minister and almost became Prime Minister at 1 stage. He also is quite a charming fellow, very polite and has an extraordinary blokey sense of humour and can be very down to earth when not in formal social situations.

The last time I actually met, he did mention that both sides are getting caught up in very minute detail, which can be frustrating as it inhibits progress. He also mentioned many unreasonable demands being put forward which would never be acceptable and are in fact "unworkable". It is his duty to then offer recommendations to end the deadlock which is ultimately provided to him from high profile constitutional experts and academics. Reports to the UN SC and SG are also submitted which from what I can gather, are honest and outline each sides demands, both reasonable and unreasonable, and his assessment of who is ultimately the recalcitrant side on that particular aspect of contention.

Lets not get to carried away just yet.

Maybe in australia pigs can fly

[Get Real!]

During the great debates over Cyprus’ eligibility for EU membership, the UN had assigned the job to three experts on “international justice”, who conducted an official report which argued and defeated Turkey’s official complaints against Cyprus’ consideration for membership.

This report clearly covered key areas raised by Turkey, including the “Treaty of Guarantee”, and many others, ending in a unanimous decision for the RoC to advance for EU membership.

One would expect a mediator such as Downer, to be well versed with the official UN stance, and at the very least to have read this report and not make unprofessional and informal emotional statements such as the TC-alleged…

"The European Union made a big strategic and tactical mistake. If they did not promise membership without a solution, then the Greeks wouldn't have rejected the plan. Some officials from the EU also admit this was a mistake in our talks,"

Since when does the UN refer to Greek Cypriots as “the Greeks”, or reference to a EU “promise”, and since when does Downer have the right to criticize UN or EU decisions? The alleged statement is laughable.

There is not a doubt in my mind that this piece is obviously a Turkish Cypriot manufactured lie and a bad one at that.

[Paphitis]

During the great debates over Cyprus’ eligibility for EU membership, the UN had assigned the job to three experts on “international justice”, who conducted an official report which argued and defeated Turkey’s official complaints against Cyprus’ consideration for membership.

This report clearly covered key areas raised by Turkey, including the “Treaty of Guarantee”, and many others, ending in a unanimous decision for the RoC to advance for EU membership.

One would expect a mediator such as Downer, to be well versed with the official UN stance, and at the very least to have read this report and not make unprofessional and informal emotional statements such as the TC-alleged…

"The European Union made a big strategic and tactical mistake. If they did not promise membership without a solution, then the Greeks wouldn't have rejected the plan. Some officials from the EU also admit this was a mistake in our talks,"

Since when does the UN refer to Greek Cypriots as “the Greeks”, or reference to a EU “promise”, and since when does Downer have the right to criticize UN or EU decisions? The alleged statement is laughable.

There is not a doubt in my mind that this piece is obviously a Turkish Cypriot manufactured lie and a bad one at that.

There is absolutely no question that Alexander Downer would NOT ever say such a thing let alone use the terminology portrayed in the Turkish Media.

You hit the nail right on the head with your assessment.

[Paphitis]

Re Bafidimu ,

shall we ask him , if he knows you ?

Shall we ask him , how he is friendly with Greek lobby in Australia ?

how effective you are on him ?

you keep claming all the time in this forum .

How he could be bias , if he has connections with lobby people as you are saying ?

may be we can copy all your claims and Talat will give him at next meeting ? After all your saying people are going to belive that he is under the pressure of Greek lobby actions .......

THey are diplomats man , can talk many thinkgs behind the closed doors , some times these things will leak to press . to change the atmospher .

At the end we will (Cypriots) will decide . yes or no ..... rest of it story ....
u understand re BAFİDİ !

I am not a Greek or Cypriot Lobbyist.

I am an Australian Liberal Party Member who happens to be of Cypriot Heritage. There is a very big difference, because in Australia we have a strong democracy where people like myself can be heard, as opposed to what you Turks are use to.

As a Liberal Member, I am entitled to express any view I like, even if this view goes against the official party line. This right is expressed in the party's constitution, and this is why the party is called "Liberal". It is because all Liberal politicians are allowed the right to cross the floor. And if Alexander Downer is responsible for tabling another anti Cyprus plan, such as the Annan Plan, then I will be making a lot of noise, and the Australian Democracy has granted me and all citizens this right.

At the end we will (Cypriots) will decide . yes or no ..... rest of it story ....
u understand re BAFİDİ !

That is right Halil. And as a Cypriot, I will also cast my NO vote if I have to. I will not let it go to waste. I will be in Cyprus casting my vote, and I am getting my voters card as we speak.

Turks such as you and Lover are just frightened now that we know your media is "full of shit".

[Kifeas]

During the great debates over Cyprus’ eligibility for EU membership, the UN had assigned the job to three experts on “international justice”, who conducted an official report which argued and defeated Turkey’s official complaints against Cyprus’ consideration for membership.

This report clearly covered key areas raised by Turkey, including the “Treaty of Guarantee”, and many others, ending in a unanimous decision for the RoC to advance for EU membership.

One would expect a mediator such as Downer, to be well versed with the official UN stance, and at the very least to have read this report and not make unprofessional and informal emotional statements such as the TC-alleged…

"The European Union made a big strategic and tactical mistake. If they did not promise membership without a solution, then the Greeks wouldn't have rejected the plan. Some officials from the EU also admit this was a mistake in our talks,"

Since when does the UN refer to Greek Cypriots as “the Greeks”, or reference to a EU “promise”, and since when does Downer have the right to criticize UN or EU decisions? The alleged statement is laughable.

There is not a doubt in my mind that this piece is obviously a Turkish Cypriot manufactured lie and a bad one at that.

Get Real, it is a well known fact that Turkish media always distort terms before publishing something, and things become even worse when they translate from English to Turkish and back to English. The initial publication was in Turkish, which Hurriyet picked up and translated in English. No one said that Downer said things in exactly the above syntax as presented, nor that he used the above exact terminology. He could have said the things in a different way of phrasing, but the essence would still be the same.

[Paphitis]

During the great debates over Cyprus’ eligibility for EU membership, the UN had assigned the job to three experts on “international justice”, who conducted an official report which argued and defeated Turkey’s official complaints against Cyprus’ consideration for membership.

This report clearly covered key areas raised by Turkey, including the “Treaty of Guarantee”, and many others, ending in a unanimous decision for the RoC to advance for EU membership.

One would expect a mediator such as Downer, to be well versed with the official UN stance, and at the very least to have read this report and not make unprofessional and informal emotional statements such as the TC-alleged…

"The European Union made a big strategic and tactical mistake. If they did not promise membership without a solution, then the Greeks wouldn't have rejected the plan. Some officials from the EU also admit this was a mistake in our talks,"

Since when does the UN refer to Greek Cypriots as “the Greeks”, or reference to a EU “promise”, and since when does Downer have the right to criticize UN or EU decisions? The alleged statement is laughable.

There is not a doubt in my mind that this piece is obviously a Turkish Cypriot manufactured lie and a bad one at that.

Get Real, it is a well known fact that Turkish media always distort terms before publishing something, and things become even worse when they translate from English to Turkish and back to English. The initial publication was in Turkish, which Hurriyet picked up and translated in English. No one said that Downer said things in exactly the above syntax as presented, nor that he used the above exact terminology. He could have said the things in a different way of phrasing, but the essence would still be the same.

Kifeas,

what exactly is your understanding of what Alexander Downer said to The Turkish Foreign Affairs Minister that Hurriyet mysteriously picked up?

[utu]

Are ypou serious? That is just as bad as the Cypriot/French design.

I wasn't being serious, Paphitis! In any case, even though the horizontal white stripes alludes to the flag of the northern administration, the mixture of white stripes on blue would look to the Turks like Greek colors...

[Viewpoint]

I read Downer reports. Cannot see anything which justifies the conclusions drawn by some. But then the spin put on by Turkish media is expected. They are listening to their master's voice.

he said he did not talk with media so they are using second hand information form people who were in the room, but it obviously has some truth to it as the UN will facilitate negotiates forever, this has to be the last chance otherwise a forced solution should be imposed.

Frustrating for you isn't it? I've lost count how many times over the years you've said that, jumping around from one false assumption to the next, but time will teach you that nothing can be forced on the RoC and everything can and will go wrong with the “TRNC”...

You fell hard last time yet you have learned nothing, this will be the final curtain and Im getting the feeling you will not like it. Feel free to pull out of the current endless negotiations or produce another resounding NO after negotiating for so long.

I'm glad you've noticed they're endless so can you hold out that long?

Definately...101% thats how commited we are to not allowing the GCs to walk all over us.

[Viewpoint]

Downer will suss out the Turks and never say anything to them again because they misquote and lie.

He is learning the way of the Turk.

He already knew the way of the Turk, a long time ago.

There are many people working behind the scenes, as far away as Australia. They are people working within his party, and so far have been very effective.

And I can tell you, that above all, he is fair. But the GCs have nothing to worry about, as he does know what is right from wrong, and who the recalcitrants really are. Also, be sure that this information is reported to the UN Secretary General.

More will come out in the wash when the talks are over.

Shall I remind you of this when things dont turn out 100% in your favor or will you just demonize him like you did Annan for not taking your side on every issue?

[Viewpoint]

Hi all,
This is the "unofficial", but agreed! United Fed Republic of Cyprus flag that was apparently presented to the UN by Christofias and Talat in their last meeting!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

It's terrible! It's worse than the Annan one. Much worse.

If we're going to unite and have 1 flag then I think we MUST keep the one that already exists.

The one above looks UGLY with the red and blue. It looks so "desperate" and TACKY.

It's really, really, really bad.

The RoC flag was designed by a TC. It's beautiful....so simple and perfect.

I couldn't agree more , keep the one that represented us all when our nation gained its independence .

Its a sign of bad times for us Miltiades Tcs would have great difficulty overcoming this and accepting a flag which is now more synonimus with GCs than TCs. We need a fresh start and that shoudl also include the flag that this time will represents all Cypriots, the current one does not.