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Is the 1959 "Treaty of Guarantee" valid?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Byron » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:57 pm

Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.
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Postby Byron » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:42 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:48 pm

Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.


You did not ask me. You asked Piratis.

I in turn asked you to give us your version of what you consider to be a workable and viable solution to the Cyprus Problem, but you refuse to give us your insight. A person that fought in the 74 war, must have some opinions on this subject.

I look forward to your response.
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Postby Byron » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:51 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.


You did not ask me. You asked Piratis.

I in turn asked you to give us your version of what you consider to be a workable and viable solution to the Cyprus Problem, but you refuse to give us your insight. A person that fought in the 74 war, must have some opinions on this subject.

I look forward to your response.


Sorry I thought you were Piratis, so my reply was for him. I do have an opinion and I shall deal wih that once I see the reply from Piratis. No point opening wider forums and discussions. I prefer to deal with one issue at a time.
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:58 pm

Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.


You did not ask me. You asked Piratis.

I in turn asked you to give us your version of what you consider to be a workable and viable solution to the Cyprus Problem, but you refuse to give us your insight. A person that fought in the 74 war, must have some opinions on this subject.

I look forward to your response.


Sorry I thought you were Piratis, so my reply was for him. I do have an opinion and I shall deal wih that once I see the reply from Piratis. No point opening wider forums and discussions. I prefer to deal with one issue at a time.


Piratis answer should be as expected. Search his posts and you will see what he deems to be a fair solution. I also find myself to be agreeing with him most of the time. We are all an open book around here.

I am sure he will respond in due course.

But while we are waiting, please tell us about YOUR opinion.
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Postby Byron » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:56 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.


You did not ask me. You asked Piratis.

I in turn asked you to give us your version of what you consider to be a workable and viable solution to the Cyprus Problem, but you refuse to give us your insight. A person that fought in the 74 war, must have some opinions on this subject.

I look forward to your response.


Sorry I thought you were Piratis, so my reply was for him. I do have an opinion and I shall deal wih that once I see the reply from Piratis. No point opening wider forums and discussions. I prefer to deal with one issue at a time.


Piratis answer should be as expected. Search his posts and you will see what he deems to be a fair solution. I also find myself to be agreeing with him most of the time. We are all an open book around here.

I am sure he will respond in due course.

But while we are waiting, please tell us about YOUR opinion.


Please direct me to the specific post - I could be spending hours otherwise looking at his posts. Thank you.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:07 pm

Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.


You did not ask me. You asked Piratis.

I in turn asked you to give us your version of what you consider to be a workable and viable solution to the Cyprus Problem, but you refuse to give us your insight. A person that fought in the 74 war, must have some opinions on this subject.

I look forward to your response.


Sorry I thought you were Piratis, so my reply was for him. I do have an opinion and I shall deal wih that once I see the reply from Piratis. No point opening wider forums and discussions. I prefer to deal with one issue at a time.


Piratis answer should be as expected. Search his posts and you will see what he deems to be a fair solution. I also find myself to be agreeing with him most of the time. We are all an open book around here.

I am sure he will respond in due course.

But while we are waiting, please tell us about YOUR opinion.


Please direct me to the specific post - I could be spending hours otherwise looking at his posts. Thank you.


Since Piratis posts infrequently, and you may be waiting a while, I will take the liberty of giving you a link to one of his threads, but you can find more by going over the past CyProb threads, page by page ...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18040

BTW Byron, in a number of opinion/popularity threads that we have had in the past, most GCs have indicated that they follow Piratis' views on the Cyprus problem and solutions.

You will find that he address facts and laws and how they apply to arguments and doesn't deal with nonsense (IMHO).
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Postby Byron » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:15 pm

Oracle wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


Gunaydin Byron,

Care to give us your version of a solution to the Cyprus Problem.

Thanks in advance.


Typical of people like you on this forum, answer a question with another question.


You did not ask me. You asked Piratis.

I in turn asked you to give us your version of what you consider to be a workable and viable solution to the Cyprus Problem, but you refuse to give us your insight. A person that fought in the 74 war, must have some opinions on this subject.

I look forward to your response.


Sorry I thought you were Piratis, so my reply was for him. I do have an opinion and I shall deal wih that once I see the reply from Piratis. No point opening wider forums and discussions. I prefer to deal with one issue at a time.


Piratis answer should be as expected. Search his posts and you will see what he deems to be a fair solution. I also find myself to be agreeing with him most of the time. We are all an open book around here.

I am sure he will respond in due course.

But while we are waiting, please tell us about YOUR opinion.


Please direct me to the specific post - I could be spending hours otherwise looking at his posts. Thank you.


Since Piratis posts infrequently, and you may be waiting a while, I will take the liberty of giving you a link to one of his threads, but you can find more by going over the past CyProb threads, page by page ...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18040

BTW Byron, in a number of opinion/popularity threads that we have had in the past, most GCs have indicated that they follow Piratis' views on the Cyprus problem and solutions.

You will find that he address facts and laws and how they apply to arguments and doesn't deal with nonsense (IMHO).


Thank you very much for your assistance, much appreciated.
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Postby Piratis » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:56 pm

Byron wrote:
Piratis wrote:
You are responsible for contirbuting to the division of this island and signing an agreement you had not intention of honouring.


And why do you think we signed something for which we had no intention to honour? The only answer can be: Because we were forced.

We are the 80% majority of this island, and still instead of being allowed to decide ourselves in a peaceful and democratic way what we want for our own island, we were forced to sign something which some foreigners made, and which would serve the interests of those foreigners along with the interests of some small minority that helped them achieve their aim, and not the interests of the Cypriot people as a whole.

We are not bound by any "agreements" which are forced on us by foreigners against our human and democratic rights. We are only bound by what is right and just, which is nothing else than freedom, democracy and human rights.


So Mr Pirate,

What is your proposal for a solution to the Cyprus Problem? I woul be interested in reading it.


What constitutes a solution is simple and straightforward: freedom, democracy(=majority rule + minority rights) and human rights without racist discrimination. These are the principles of a true solution. The details could be various and could address in a correct way any justified concerns of the TC minority without violating the rights of anybody else.

What is not at all simple and straightforward is how will get to a solution.

This is because some foreigners have their own interests in Cyprus and they do not want to allow Cyprus to be free, and because the TC minority got used in the unfair gains that are promised to them by the invaders of Cyprus and they can not see themselves as just equal Cypriots without any unfair privileges.

Some could claim that an easy way to solve the problem is to just accept whatever the Turks demand. The result would be an even bigger problem for us, but for those people the label "solution" is what matters, and not the essence. For me, and I believe for the majority of Cypriots, the essence is what matters, and not labels such as "solution" and "unification".

I don't have any recipe for how exactly a solution can be achieved. What I know is what we should do in order not to make things even worst for ourselves. What we should do is to maintain our rights over the whole island, keep Turkey out of EU (in my opinion the sooner Turkey leaves the negotiations the better), actively support PKK, and strengthen our ties with Greece and other potential allies.

Turkey is a torn nation. Islamists VS Secularists and Turks VS Kurds. Many bad things can happen to Turkey and we should be prepared for them because in the not so distant future the balance of power can change (and by that I don't mean Cyprus vs Turkey one on one)
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