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Is the 1959 "Treaty of Guarantee" valid?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:31 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/als/_archbishop_makarios_richard_gilbert.html

The three monkeys online eh? :lol: I’m afraid I can’t find any other link that verifies this “interview” or a journalist called “Richard Gilbert” at all… we’ve had this shit posted before by Zan haven’t we? :lol:


Give it away,GR...There is one interview on You Tube ,which I posted some time ago but can't seem to find now, in which Makarios admits to working for Enosis well into the 60s....What do they say??? There is no one as blind as someone who refuses to see...or hear...or believe... :wink:

Sorry, I can't accept this three monkeys crap... do you have any credible evidence?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

No evidence will be credible for you,GR!....Unless it confirms your very biased and subjective opinions and information... :roll:

But why do you TCs always insist on junk links? Can't you see it's not getting you anywhere? You use them to fill your heads with bogus information then wonder why nobody else agrees with it!

How can you take a site called “three monkeys” seriously??? :roll:
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Postby doesntmatter » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:25 pm

GR, can you translate this video and maybe put a date to it?


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr4FAgb9a ... re=related
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Postby miltiades » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:28 pm

HE MATTERS NIL , Because he is a foreigner wrote the following rubbish "

You have single handely proven that the recognition of the "RoC" and it's EU "membership" are all illegal. Personally I like to thank you in the name of all TCs, the TRNC and Turkey and make sure that you understand we will use this information you have given us in the best possible way and ensure that you personally get all the credit for it.

Your signature has done you proud GR, well done.
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Postby doesntmatter » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:45 pm

miltiades wrote:HE MATTERS NIL , Because he is a foreigner wrote the following rubbish "

You have single handely proven that the recognition of the "RoC" and it's EU "membership" are all illegal. Personally I like to thank you in the name of all TCs, the TRNC and Turkey and make sure that you understand we will use this information you have given us in the best possible way and ensure that you personally get all the credit for it.

Your signature has done you proud GR, well done.


"foreigner"? does that mean that you are not from Cyprus?

BTW, if GR insists that the treaty is null and void than what I wrote above is not rubbish, it just hurts you to see the truth.
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Postby miltiades » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:59 pm

doesntmatter wrote:
miltiades wrote:HE MATTERS NIL , Because he is a foreigner wrote the following rubbish "

You have single handely proven that the recognition of the "RoC" and it's EU "membership" are all illegal. Personally I like to thank you in the name of all TCs, the TRNC and Turkey and make sure that you understand we will use this information you have given us in the best possible way and ensure that you personally get all the credit for it.

Your signature has done you proud GR, well done.


"foreigner"? does that mean that you are not from Cyprus?

BTW, if GR insists that the treaty is null and void than what I wrote above is not rubbish, it just hurts you to see the truth.

The truth is , as per " AFRICA " that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots and since you obviously are not a Cypriot then that makes you a foreigner .
Take note of the fact that Turkey is in Cyprus as an occupying power , it does occupy the Northern part of Cyprus and all T/Cs who are at Turkey's mercy.

ps. Just in case you are not aware , the UN , the EU , the USA , and ALL other international entities as well as 50 thousand T/C Holders of the Cypriot ID DO RECOGNISE the ROC !!!
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Postby Piratis » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:25 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:The "Treaty of Guarantee" as well as the 1960 constitution are nothing more than what was imposed on the Cypriot people by force, when Turks and British collaborated and attacked us in order to oppress our revolution for freedom and self-determination. In fact the intercommunal conflict started in 1958 by the TCs as part of their collaboration with the British.

Those treaties served exclusively the interests of those foreigners who made them, as well as their Turkish minority in Cyprus, who they used as the means and as the excuse to deny to Cyprus its freedom, and later rewarded them with unfair privileges on the expense of the vast majority of Cypriots.

In 1963 Makarios simply proposed changes to the constitution which were supported by the vast majority of Cypriots, and which would have made the constitution much more democratic and fair.

Unfortunately the TC minority who were used to have unfair privileges on the expense of the native Cypriot people since the time of the Ottoman rule, rejected the proposals and restarted the conflict with the aim to maintain their unfair privileges that were granted to them by the Turks and the British on the expense of every other Cypriot.

If Turkey thinks that that such disproportional and unfair "partnerships" should be made between the majority and ethnic minorities, then they can practice what they preach in their own country by doing such partnerships with the Kurdish and Greek minorities that live in Turkey. (not only they don't do that, but instead they don't even give to them their minority and human rights!)

What we believe is right for Cyprus, is what is right for every other modern civilized state. Democracy (=majority rule + minority rights), human rights and equality of all citizens without apartheid and racist discriminations. It is time for the Turks to recognize that we are not living in the Middle Ages, and that Cyprus is not part of their empire, and that they can not anymore divide the people of Cyprus into higher class Muslims and lower class Christians and expect such thing to be tolerated by us.

Republic of Cyprus today is ruled democratically by its own people (TCs are free to participate as well) and this is what makes it 100% legitimate, more so than any foreign imposed undemocratic and unfair "partnership" would.

We are only bound by what is right, which is freedom, democracy and human rights and not by anything that some Turks or British want to force on our island to serve their own interests on our expense.


What a pity,Piratis,that all through the 50s you were not concerned with Independence,but wished to gift our homeland to Greece on a plate...The demand for Enosis is the key to all that followed...When you admit that and apologise to all Cypriots for turning their island into a civil war site,then you will have the moral authority to throw your stones at the TCs...Not before..


So our "crime" was our desire for freedom? Being independent means to have the power to decide the destiny of your own territory, and that is exactly what we wanted, our self-determination.

Here is the UN resolution about decolonization which clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as a legitimate option for the people being decolonized. Why was this denied to us? To serve the interests of some foreigners and some small minority, on our expense?
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Our desire for freedom in a free Greek State is not something that started in the 50s, but something that started from day one of the Greek revolution. All Greeks were under Ottoman rule and all of us wanted to be free in a our own state. We didn't want to be split into several small protectorates to make it easier for some others to manipulate us.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


Just like in 1821 the Turks attacked us in order to stop us from having our freedom, the exact same thing they did in 1958 along with the British.

So are you going now to blame us because we wanted our freedom, instead of blaming yourselves for attacking us in order to deny to us our freedom and our rights, and gain on our expense disproportional and unfair privileges?

The fact is that the Cypriot people never ventured out of their own island to harm anybody, it is others who kept invading us. All we ever wanted is our freedom and self-determination so we, not some foreigners, could determine the destiny of our own island.

We are not going to apologize for revolting for our freedom. It is you who should apologize for helping foreigners to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom, and collaborating with foreigners so you can gain unfair and disproportionate privileges that were given to you as a reward for assisting them to oppress our revolution and maintain control over Cyprus against the will of the vast majority of Cypriots.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:54 pm

Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:The "Treaty of Guarantee" as well as the 1960 constitution are nothing more than what was imposed on the Cypriot people by force, when Turks and British collaborated and attacked us in order to oppress our revolution for freedom and self-determination. In fact the intercommunal conflict started in 1958 by the TCs as part of their collaboration with the British.

Those treaties served exclusively the interests of those foreigners who made them, as well as their Turkish minority in Cyprus, who they used as the means and as the excuse to deny to Cyprus its freedom, and later rewarded them with unfair privileges on the expense of the vast majority of Cypriots.

In 1963 Makarios simply proposed changes to the constitution which were supported by the vast majority of Cypriots, and which would have made the constitution much more democratic and fair.

Unfortunately the TC minority who were used to have unfair privileges on the expense of the native Cypriot people since the time of the Ottoman rule, rejected the proposals and restarted the conflict with the aim to maintain their unfair privileges that were granted to them by the Turks and the British on the expense of every other Cypriot.

If Turkey thinks that that such disproportional and unfair "partnerships" should be made between the majority and ethnic minorities, then they can practice what they preach in their own country by doing such partnerships with the Kurdish and Greek minorities that live in Turkey. (not only they don't do that, but instead they don't even give to them their minority and human rights!)

What we believe is right for Cyprus, is what is right for every other modern civilized state. Democracy (=majority rule + minority rights), human rights and equality of all citizens without apartheid and racist discriminations. It is time for the Turks to recognize that we are not living in the Middle Ages, and that Cyprus is not part of their empire, and that they can not anymore divide the people of Cyprus into higher class Muslims and lower class Christians and expect such thing to be tolerated by us.

Republic of Cyprus today is ruled democratically by its own people (TCs are free to participate as well) and this is what makes it 100% legitimate, more so than any foreign imposed undemocratic and unfair "partnership" would.

We are only bound by what is right, which is freedom, democracy and human rights and not by anything that some Turks or British want to force on our island to serve their own interests on our expense.


What a pity,Piratis,that all through the 50s you were not concerned with Independence,but wished to gift our homeland to Greece on a plate...The demand for Enosis is the key to all that followed...When you admit that and apologise to all Cypriots for turning their island into a civil war site,then you will have the moral authority to throw your stones at the TCs...Not before..


So our "crime" was our desire for freedom? Being independent means to have the power to decide the destiny of your own territory, and that is exactly what we wanted, our self-determination.

Here is the UN resolution about decolonization which clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as a legitimate option for the people being decolonized. Why was this denied to us? To serve the interests of some foreigners and some small minority, on our expense?
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Our desire for freedom in a free Greek State is not something that started in the 50s, but something that started from day one of the Greek revolution. All Greeks were under Ottoman rule and all of us wanted to be free in a our own state. We didn't want to be split into several small protectorates to make it easier for some others to manipulate us.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


Just like in 1821 the Turks attacked us in order to stop us from having our freedom, the exact same thing they did in 1958 along with the British.

So are you going now to blame us because we wanted our freedom, instead of blaming yourselves for attacking us in order to deny to us our freedom and our rights, and gain on our expense disproportional and unfair privileges?

The fact is that the Cypriot people never ventured out of their own island to harm anybody, it is others who kept invading us. All we ever wanted is our freedom and self-determination so we, not some foreigners, could determine the destiny of our own island.

We are not going to apologize for revolting for our freedom. It is you who should apologize for helping foreigners to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom, and collaborating with foreigners so you can gain unfair and disproportionate privileges that were given to you as a reward for assisting them to oppress our revolution and maintain control over Cyprus against the will of the vast majority of Cypriots.


I have said before that given the times and our history your demand for Enosis with Greece was understandable...But your "freedom" ,meant slavery for a sizeable majority who had legitimate fears for their future...

This is what you fail to see...There was no way the TCs would accept Enosis,whichever emotional cloth you wrapped it in...The smart thing to do was to fight for indepedence making sure that the TCs would be fighting by your side...The moment you made Enosis your sole and non-negotiable ambition you set the two communities on the collision course...

The rest is history...Sure others took advantage of this,but it was the GCs who gave them the weapon to shoot down the only opportunity Cypriots had of becoming truly free and independent...Your stubborn refusal to accept the GC part in all this is what leads me to believe that in your heart you (Piratis) are after revenge and punishment...The demand for Enosis was to punish the TCs,and your refusal to apportion any blame to the GCs now shows that at least you,Piratis,have carried the historical bitterness and hatred of the TCs and ,in them,the Turks,all the way to the present... :( :(
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Postby Byron » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:45 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Byron wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/als/_archbishop_makarios_richard_gilbert.html

The three monkeys online eh? :lol: I’m afraid I can’t find any other link that verifies this “interview” or a journalist called “Richard Gilbert” at all… we’ve had this shit posted before by Zan haven’t we? :lol:


Give it away,GR...There is one interview on You Tube ,which I posted some time ago but can't seem to find now, in which Makarios admits to working for Enosis well into the 60s....What do they say??? There is no one as blind as someone who refuses to see...or hear...or believe... :wink:

Sorry, I can't accept this three monkeys crap... do you have any credible evidence?


GR - I think I asked you this question before. Are you a lawyer ?

No.


That is exactly what I thought ! Please kindly refrain on giving legal advice to everyone on treaties and constitutions. Just be a good little boy and post solutions to the CYPRUS PROBLEM , if you can .
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:55 pm

Byron wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Byron wrote:GR - I think I asked you this question before. Are you a lawyer ?

No.

That is exactly what I thought ! Please kindly refrain on giving legal advice to everyone on treaties and constitutions. Just be a good little boy and post solutions to the CYPRUS PROBLEM , if you can .

Solutions for the CyProb based on an undemocratic political arrangement, all revolve around a complex constitution so your suggestion contradicts itself… :lol:
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Postby Byron » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:09 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Byron wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Byron wrote:GR - I think I asked you this question before. Are you a lawyer ?

No.

That is exactly what I thought ! Please kindly refrain on giving legal advice to everyone on treaties and constitutions. Just be a good little boy and post solutions to the CYPRUS PROBLEM , if you can .

Solutions for the CyProb based on an undemocratic political arrangement, all revolve around a complex constitution so your suggestion contradicts itself… :lol:


Why is it necessary for you to write in riddles.

I asked you to post your solutions. The reply is -

GR only posts solutions based on "undemocratic political arrangements" based on a complex constitution. BRAVO! ( comme on dit en France )

The truth is you have noproposals to offer for a solution to the CYPRUS PROBLEM. AU REVOIR !

Please explain, 1) what is my suggestion and 2) how it contradicts itself, if you can.
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