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Is the 1959 "Treaty of Guarantee" valid?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:39 am

DT. wrote:
What a pity,Piratis,that all through the 50s you were not concerned with Independence,but wished to gift our homeland to Greece on a plate...The demand for Enosis is the key to all that followed...When you admit that and apologise to all Cypriots for turning their island into a civil war site,then you will have the moral authority to throw your stones at the TCs...Not before.

Bir, the Speaker of the House yesturday issued an apology to the TC's about any wrongdoings that were done to them during the 60's. This is the 2nd time this comes from the GC's.

Where's our apology? And I don't want it from Piratis or from you I want it from your politicians just like our President and Speaker of the house did.

An apology for the 1000's killed in the invasion, the 100,000's displaced and the 100's killed in the 60's.


Bir :roll:
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:42 am

GET REAL! wrote:I like to call it an undemocratic and racist political arrangement whereby a minority of 18% was given 30% of the House of Representatives and a vice - president with veto power… the most absurd arrangement ever made in the modern history of mankind! I don’t know how the UN kept a straight face endorsing it but I guess it happened half a century ago at a time when Negroes were still looked upon as “savages”!


The question you must ask is: How did Makarios keep a straight face signing an agreement he had no intention of honouring...Within 3 years he was at work pushing the hapless TCs out of power,in order to gift Cyprus to Greece... I know you know this was an unforgivable act of treachery,GR!...But the rest of the GCs have to come to the same realisation before we make any headway towards reuniting our homeland...It seems it was not only the "negroes" who were looked upon as Savages then...The TCs were considered somewhat less than the negroes...
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:55 am

DT. wrote:
DT. wrote:
What a pity,Piratis,that all through the 50s you were not concerned with Independence,but wished to gift our homeland to Greece on a plate...The demand for Enosis is the key to all that followed...When you admit that and apologise to all Cypriots for turning their island into a civil war site,then you will have the moral authority to throw your stones at the TCs...Not before.

Bir, the Speaker of the House yesturday issued an apology to the TC's about any wrongdoings that were done to them during the 60's. This is the 2nd time this comes from the GC's.

Where's our apology? And I don't want it from Piratis or from you I want it from your politicians just like our President and Speaker of the house did.

An apology for the 1000's killed in the invasion, the 100,000's displaced and the 100's killed in the 60's.


Bir :roll:


DT...If it was in my power,I wound climb the highest minaret and issue the strongest apology I can master for what happened to the GCs during the Catastrophy of 1974...But I am getting compassion -fatique lately on this Forum...Let me put it this way...Officially the Turks are not very good at apologising...And as you know well,Talat cannot go to the toilet without permission from Turkey...You are not going to get any apology from them any time soon..The apology will come from the people,from bottom up..Like it is happening in Turkey re the Armenians at the moment...
But not before our pain and suffering are acknowledged by the majority of the GCs...And their role in the whole bloody mess...

It is great to hear about the apology...Can you give me a link where I can read the wording of it??? Not because I don't trust you,DT...You are one of three people I have the utmost respect in this Forum..Whenever I write a post I think of you 3,and how it might hurt or disappoint you...But I am truly getting compassion and empathy-fatique on this Forum...You can't keep churning it out,if all you get back are insults and worse... :( :(
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Re: Is the 1959 "Treaty of Guarantee" valid?

Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:13 am

Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:1. A material breach of a bilateral treaty by one of the parties entitles the other to invoke the breach as a ground for terminating the treaty or suspending its operation in whole or in part.

Btw, you highlighted the bilateral (two-party) section which is not the case with Cyprus.


GR! Stop splitting hairs,mate..I have often said Turkey had abused her powers under the Treaty,when she failed to establish the independence and integrity of the RoC,by forcing the TCs to return to their rightful place next to the GCs in Government...But I am not convinced that this made the treaty invalid...Try to find some source where the UN had declared the Treaty invalid...I am keeping an open mind on this...But,in practice,what difference dooes it make????If these treaties are not worth the paper they are written on,why are they making so much fuss now about having or not having the guarantees??? :?
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:15 am

BirKibrisli wrote:Is is morally acceptable for the "Legitimate government" to turn a blind eye to the slaughter of hundreds of its citizens,abandon them to their own fates in enclaves to live in fear of their lives??????? Of course not! It wasn't the middle ages...It was the middle of the 20th century...

Give us a credible link for this "slaughter of hundreds" of TCs and then one for "abandon them in enclaves". You really are full of shit I must say... :lol:

Your people were directed (sometimes forcefully) to enclaves by your own militia as instructed by Turkey in preparation for Taksim!
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:24 am

BirKibrisli wrote:How did Makarios keep a straight face signing an agreement he had no intention of honouring...Within 3 years he was at work pushing the hapless TCs out of power,in order to gift Cyprus to Greece... I know you know this was an unforgivable act of treachery,GR!...But the rest of the GCs have to come to the same realisation before we make any headway towards reuniting our homeland...

Again, you’re full of shit! :lol:

Makarios ceased from supporting union with Greece when his suggestion for independence was accepted. It was a prerequisite for the 1959 deal to go ahead and from then on he honored it right to the end.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:32 am

Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Is is morally acceptable for the "Legitimate government" to turn a blind eye to the slaughter of hundreds of its citizens,abandon them to their own fates in enclaves to live in fear of their lives??????? Of course not! It wasn't the middle ages...It was the middle of the 20th century...

Give us a credible link for this "slaughter of hundreds" of TCs and then one for "abandon them in enclaves". You really are full of shit I must say... :lol:

Your people were directed (sometimes forcefully) to enclaves by your own militia as instructed by Turkey in preparation for Taksim!


I don't have to,GR! I lived through those times...You can choose to believe me or not...But this you must believe,we didn't need much encouragement from the TMT to seek safer ground...You are right ,there was some encouragement (and it was never forced), but we didnt really need it...

And you don't have to say I am full of shit...You will upset Byron's feelings... :)
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:37 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:Is is morally acceptable for the "Legitimate government" to turn a blind eye to the slaughter of hundreds of its citizens,abandon them to their own fates in enclaves to live in fear of their lives??????? Of course not! It wasn't the middle ages...It was the middle of the 20th century...

Give us a credible link for this "slaughter of hundreds" of TCs and then one for "abandon them in enclaves". You really are full of shit I must say... :lol:

Your people were directed (sometimes forcefully) to enclaves by your own militia as instructed by Turkey in preparation for Taksim!


I don't have to,GR! I lived through those times...You can choose to believe me or not...But this you must believe,we didn't need much encouragement from the TMT to seek safer ground...You are right ,there was some encouragement (and it was never forced), but we didnt really need it...

And you don't have to say I am full of shit...You will upset Byron's feelings... :)

I've got an article on here somewhere (credible evidence as always included) covering TMT "encouragements" and even murders, to make people move, yet you come up with this??? Image
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Postby miltiades » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:56 am

There was indeed " encouragement " by the TMT but no one can deny the fact that the T/Cs were seen as an unwelcome obstacle in the way of those who wanted to have Cyprus totally Greek , those who considered the T/Cs as mere remnants of the Ottoman period and believed that the T/Cs should NOT BE IN CYPRUS .
They were commonly referred to as blood thirsty barbarians , filthy Turks ( vromotourchi ) .No effort at all had been made by the Church or the establishment to accommodate the T/Cs as equal citizens of Cyprus .We erred and we paid the penalty , lets learn and regain our island as Cypriots.
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Re: Is the 1959 "Treaty of Guarantee" valid?

Postby doesntmatter » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:59 am

Get Real! wrote:Is the 1959 "Treaty of Guarantee" valid?

There are many reasons that render the "Treaty of Guarantee" invalid including the UN Charter as a result of Cyprus’ 1960 entry into the UN, but in this article we will take a look at what international law has to say regarding the termination of treaties themselves…

The link being used is...

http://www.worldtradelaw.net/misc/viennaconvention.pdf

...and the relevant section begins from the end of page 18 of the PDF.


Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties

Article 60: Termination or suspension of the operation of a treaty as a consequence of its breach

1. A material breach of a bilateral treaty by one of the parties entitles the other to invoke the breach as a ground for terminating the treaty or suspending its operation in whole or in part.

2. A material breach of a multilateral treaty by one of the parties entitles:
(a) the other parties by unanimous agreement to suspend the operation of the treaty in whole or in
part or to terminate it either:
(i) in the relations between themselves and the defaulting State, or

Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties

(ii) as between all the parties;
(b) a party specially affected by the breach to invoke it as a ground for suspending the operation
of the treaty in whole or in part in the relations between itself and the defaulting State;
(c) any party other than the defaulting State to invoke the breach as a ground for suspending the
operation of the treaty in whole or in part with respect to itself if the treaty is of such a character
that a material breach of its provisions by one party radically changes the position of every party
with respect to the further performance of its obligations under the treaty.


3. A material breach of a treaty, for the purposes of this article, consists in:
(a) a repudiation of the treaty not sanctioned by the present Convention; or
(b) the violation of a provision essential to the accomplishment of the object or purpose of the treaty.

4. The foregoing paragraphs are without prejudice to any provision in the treaty applicable in the event of a breach.

5. Paragraphs 1 to 3 do not apply to provisions relating to the protection of the human person contained in treaties of a humanitarian character, in particular to provisions prohibiting any form of reprisals against
persons protected by such treaties.


In July 1974, all three guarantor powers of the Republic of Cyprus breached the 1959 Treaty of Guarantee in the following manner…

Greece, overthrew the legitimate government of Cyprus via a military coup violating Cyprus’ government and constitution.

Turkey militarily invaded and occupied a portion of Cyprus violating Cyprus’ territorial integrity and legitimate government.

Britain, having prior knowledge of the schemes of Greece and Turkey failed to take any form of measures to protect the Republic Cyprus.

In accordance with the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties all three guarantor powers were in breech of the 1959 Treaty of Guarantee rendering it invalid.

Regards, GR.


GR,

Did the GCs and Greece wanted and attempted to annex Cyprus to Greece in 1963 and was planning for the same way before 1963?

Did Makarios attempt to change the constitution by force?

Did Greece as a "guarantor power" send in it's foreign troops in 63/64 to ensure Cyprus would be annexed to Greece?

The truthful answer to all three question is yes so therefor the "Treaty of Guarantee" was automatically declared null and void by the actions of the GCs and Greece. This means that there was no valid treaty that could be breached in 1974 which is also proof that there was no "RoC" that legally existed after 1963.


You have single handely proven that the recognition of the "RoC" and it's EU "membership" are all illegal. Personally I like to thank you in the name of all TCs, the TRNC and Turkey and make sure that you understand we will use this information you have given us in the best possible way and ensure that you personally get all the credit for it.

Your signature has done you proud GR, well done.
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