Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

... ...sounds like the more you start with, the less you have at the end

...what an upside down world this Tnct is and everything that goes on in it.

Is that what they mean by negative gearing...

......going backwards or reverse gear?

[Viewpoint]

What will happen if they have no property other than in the TRNC?

There are other ways of enforcing judgements, freezing banks accounts or attaching to income for instance.

There money is in the TRNC banks.

And many Brits still receive income/pensions from the UK. They may have current accounts in "trnc" but I doubt if too many would trust large sums in you bankrupt system.

Youd be surprised, with YTL interest rates of 22% who needs a UK pension.

22% huh?

Those mortgages must be getting pretty difficult to pay up

22% !!! That's not a rate of return. That's a warning.

People in the TRNC including Brits are making money and living quite comfortably.

Let's do a bit of maths to see what warning 22% YTL rates (VP's own figure) should give to all but the blind and stupid.

Put your money in a Tnct bank, take out the 22% interest as pension/income to live comfortably (VP's word)... and ...well...lo and behold in three years time...your hard earned money is worth...... half what it is today!... it's magic!...it's a miracle!.....wine in to water!

...and that's making money in the Strange Topsy-Turvy World of the Tnct.

Go ahead Mr Know it all do some research you will be suprised at the return, its been a winner for the last 3 4 years the intial sum invested is an important factor as that determines the monthly income level.

... ...sounds like the more you start with, the less you have at the end

...what an upside down world this Tnct is and everything that goes on in it.

Bill re-read my post I have done the research for you.

[bill cobbett]

What will happen if they have no property other than in the TRNC?

There are other ways of enforcing judgements, freezing banks accounts or attaching to income for instance.

There money is in the TRNC banks.

And many Brits still receive income/pensions from the UK. They may have current accounts in "trnc" but I doubt if too many would trust large sums in you bankrupt system.

Youd be surprised, with YTL interest rates of 22% who needs a UK pension.

22% huh?

Those mortgages must be getting pretty difficult to pay up

22% !!! That's not a rate of return. That's a warning.

People in the TRNC including Brits are making money and living quite comfortably.

Let's do a bit of maths to see what warning 22% YTL rates (VP's own figure) should give to all but the blind and stupid.

Put your money in a Tnct bank, take out the 22% interest as pension/income to live comfortably (VP's word)... and ...well...lo and behold in three years time...your hard earned money is worth...... half what it is today!... it's magic!...it's a miracle!.....wine in to water!

...and that's making money in the Strange Topsy-Turvy World of the Tnct.

Go ahead Mr Know it all do some research you will be suprised at the return, its been a winner for the last 3 4 years the intial sum invested is an important factor as that determines the monthly income level.

... ...sounds like the more you start with, the less you have at the end

...what an upside down world this Tnct is and everything that goes on in it.

Bill re-read my post I have done the research for you.

Thank you for your concern VPs. The research that concerns us at the moment suggests that the poor, foolish, greedy people who invested in Stolen Land in the Occupied North have a very good chance of being a Lot Poorer.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis,

Your words as a Cypriot mean a lot to me....

Only problem is he's not a Cypriot man.

You are out of order, GR!

He's not, he just married a Cypriot girl.

So how did marrying a Cypriot girl nullify his personal Cypriot credentials?

Both his parents are from Cyprus, he has a Cypriot passport, property on Cyprus, would fight for Cyprus. What more commitment could you ask for?

(Don't bring up the Hellenic preferences again, because if e.g. France offered you the same level of allegiance as Greece does to Cyprus, you would become a Francophile and it would not make you any less Cypriot!)

Look, I can't be bothered discussing him any further, he's no Cypriot and he doesn't fool me, go sort it out with him. (with a palm-full of salt )

Do I have to get out my red correction pen again? Who is going to stop your downward spiral?



BTW, The Republic of Cyprus considers me a Cypriot. My wife considers me a Cypriot. But most importantly, I consider myself a Cypriot, and that is all that matters!

[Tim Drayton]

Youd be surprised, with YTL interest rates of 22% who needs a UK pension.

I think a lot of Turkish Cypriots thought the same thing last time Turkish lira interest rates were very high, prior to the 1999 Turkish banking crisis. The results are well known:

http://www.sant.ox.ac.uk/esc/ramses/sonan.pdf

The banking crisis hit the north of Cyprus in late 1999. The amount deposited in the failing banks was USD 163 million in 58.000 different accounts. This amount represented almost 18% of all bank deposits in the banking system. More than 30,000 individuals were affected, making the crisis a real social trauma for Turkish Cypriots.

This time round, the results may be a bit different. Turkish Cypriots now have more sense than to keep their money in Turkish lira; it may be foreigners living in the north who get their fingers burned.

All deposits were paid in full and the improving interest rates the returns provide a very comfortable life for the Brits who have sold their sme detached in the Uk and settled in the TRNC.

You fail to mention that, while Turkey has scored a great success in bringing inflation down from the 70-80% levels at which it was stuck for decades, Turkish inflation has stubbornly remained at about 10% for the past three years, still quite a high level by European standards, and there is every chance that it will move back up to about 15% in the current crisis. 22% annual interest is not actually that good in a currency likely to loose 15% of its value over the same period.

The Turkish lira has always offered great returns to investors, provided you get your money out before the next crisis, which happen every 5-10 years, comes along and wipes out everything. I speak from experience as one who got burnt in the January-February 1994 crisis in Turkey. I do not believe that many Turkish Cypriots keep their assets in Turkish lira nowadays.

[Kikapu]

How can any bank, even in the most stable countries give a return of 22% to their depositors. These a Bank Deposits we are talking about, and not investments in stocks, and the answer has to be a BIG "no way, Jose", let alone in a illegal state that is supported by Turkey, or else it's curtains for them financially and as a "state". As Tim pointed out, that the Turkish Currency is not something that you can count on being there when you need it, or at least, it's full value from when it was first deposited. It has never been in the past, so why expect anything in the future. The likelihood of all the Brits who have deposited in the banks in the "trnc", have done so in British Pound accounts, and as we all know, that the British Pound has been losing it's shirt against the US Dollar and the Euro lately. They have just about manages to keep pace with the Turkish Lira, only because the Turkish Lira is about 30% down against the US Dollar also. It all sounds too good to be true I'm afraid, and if anything is too good to be true, it often is. Look at this guy in the USA, Bernie Madoff, who had a nice PONZI scheme going that defrauded 50 Billion US Dollars from investors. That is a Billion with a "B" so that you know it was not a type-o, and he was only guarantying a lousy 8% return. I don't know why all these idiot investors did not choose to go to the "trnc" and get 22% instead. Then again, these investors should have taken notice of the guys name, Madoff, which sounds more like MADE-OFF.!!

[Nikitas]

The whole of the TRNC is similar to a PONZI scheme. A president who has no power, a supposedly independent country using some other country's currency, a finance minister who goes begging to Turkey, a huge proportion of the population in public service jobs, an economy based on dealing in illegally expropriated land, which is sold without basic services. The list goes on and on.

[bill cobbett]

Nikitas (or any other legally minded members),

What is your opinion on the position of the GBs who have bought stolen land in the Occupied North and who have moved their GB assets to, say, children or to trusts, to frustrate any future unfavourable GB court order (seeking enforcement of an RoC court judgement) ?

Do GB courts tolerate these deliberate avoidance scams?

[CopperLine]

Bill,
In brief, once it has been demonstrated (and all appeals exhausted) that a claim to title of a property is unfounded or that the property has been illegally acquired - i.e, that an unlawful claim to ownership has been made - then the attempt to 'hide' or transfer the asset serves merely to frustrate rightful restitution. In other words the successful claimant does not have to demonstrate time and again, each time the title is passed on to a trust or whatever, that the property claim is unfounded.

By rough analagy, if I buy a stolen car on documents which turn out to be fraudulent, and even if I buy such a car entirely innocent of its stolen past, it is well within the powers of the original and rightful owner to secure restitution leaving me penniless and carless.

(Remember, incidentally, that the long term and general importance of the Oram's case (once it left the RoC courts) is not really about legal/illegal property in Cyprus. It is about the enforceability of national court decisions in other extra-national jurisdictions).

PS. Whilst some 'trusts' are indeed used as avoidance scams, a trust per se is not an 'avoidance scam'. It is simply another form of ownership.

[bill cobbett]

Bill,
In brief, once it has been demonstrated (and all appeals exhausted) that a claim to title of a property is unfounded or that the property has been illegally acquired - i.e, that an unlawful claim to ownership has been made - then the attempt to 'hide' or transfer the asset serves merely to frustrate rightful restitution. In other words the successful claimant does not have to demonstrate time and again, each time the title is passed on to a trust or whatever, that the property claim is unfounded.

By rough analagy, if I buy a stolen car on documents which turn out to be fraudulent, and even if I buy such a car entirely innocent of its stolen past, it is well within the powers of the original and rightful owner to secure restitution leaving me penniless and carless.

(Remember, incidentally, that the long term and general importance of the Oram's case (once it left the RoC courts) is not really about legal/illegal property in Cyprus. It is about the enforceability of national court decisions in other extra-national jurisdictions).

PS. Whilst some 'trusts' are indeed used as avoidance scams, a trust per se is not an 'avoidance scam'. It is simply another form of ownership.

Thanks for that CL.