Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I AM CERTAINLY NOT LAUGHING, WHAT IS THERE TO LAUGH ABOUT !

NO NEED TO POST THE TREATY ? YOU TOLD US IT DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE BECAUSE THE GUARANTOR POWERS MADE A FOOL OF THEMSELVES IN 1974 ! LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE ONLY FOOL HERE SAYING ONE THING THEN A LITTLE LATER CONTRADICTING YOURSELF.

You incompetent fool! Do you know what Greece, Turkey, Britain, and Cyprus, are talking about these days?

They are gradually writing up an undemocratic political arrangement supposedly for the coexistence of “two communities” on Cyprus, and as a DIRECT REPLACEMENT of the constitution the “Treaty of Guarantee” supposedly guarantees!!!

So besides everyone having already violated the “Treaty of Guarantee” from 35 years ago by doing EXACTLY the opposite of what it says, today they are even re-writing the constitution with the UN’s blessing!

Now given all the above facts, I’d like you to use your IQ if you have any, and tell me all about the validity of the “Treaty of Guarantee” in 2008!

[BirKibrisli]

All three “guarantor” powers made complete fools of themselves in 1974 by violating their agreement in the most treasonous of ways and rendering it null & void. All sections of the RoC constitution that granted them any sort of power or say has been FORFEITED so there is no longer any point in arguing any section relevant to them.

Cyprus does not have and has not had any “guarantor powers” since 1974... end of story.

ARE YOU A LAWYER GR because you write absolute rubbish. It looks like the Turkish side on this forum know more about law than you and other Greek Cypriots.

To clarify once again:

Cyprus Republic still exists ( It is a member state of the EU )
If it exists so does its original constitution and the guarantor alliance under the Zurich Agreement. The only point I may say is that in LAW Turkey "perhaps" has relinquished her guarantor power by creating an illegal state contrary to the basic articles of the constitution.

What needs to happen now is to find a solution, so make proposals on how we go forward and stop dreaming about the past.

Countless UN resolutions are utterly ignored by all and sundry, the UN Charter itself has been made a mockery by successive UN Secretary Generals themselves, and particularly Annan (see second invasion of Iraq) let alone everyone else, and you are still wondering if the “Treaty of Guarantee” trashed over three decades ago, is still valid???

Go back to sleep…

It looks like you are already asleep good time with the continual rubbish you churn out.

Byron,
You are still to realise this: When GR! says international agreements are nil and void because the parties are not upholding certain aspects of them,you will just have to accept it..They are nil and void in GR's mind and GR's mind only...

Birkibrisli,

I truly agree with your comments. I am absolutely amazed by the abuse, bad language and above all lack of respect. The objective of the forum is to discuss in an amicable way proposals for a solution to the Cyprus problem. Instead we get history lessons, contradictions, Cypriots who denounce their heritage on both sides but mainly GREEK CYPRIOTS or Cypriots in the case of GR who just abuse the TURKISH community. Even though we have a different creed or language, including political beliefs does not mean that we cannot be civilised. What is the point of trying to find a solution if we cannot even talk to each other let alone live together.

I am afraid that if these are the the people who have been tasked the responsibility of solving the CYPRUS PROBLEM, it will never happen and I am beginning to say to myself what the hell !

Dear Byron,
Cypriots as a nation have been deeply traumatised by the events going back to the 50s...They are suffering collectively from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...(PTSD)...That is why they have serious cognitive distortion problems,multiple kinds of anxieties,compulsions and paranoid tendencies...I too have come to the conclusion that they are forever condemned to be at the mercy of certain foreign powers they mistakenly recognise as friendly or "motherly"...They do not deserve this,but they are too ill to realise what they are doing to each other...Only a miracle can save them from self-destruction...And I do not believe in miracles..

[BirKibrisli]

Here you go lads because I doubt you've ever read it...

(b) Treaty of Guarantee between the Republic of Cyprus and Greece, the United Kingdom and Turkey

The Republic of Cyprus of the one part, and Greece, the United Kingdom and Turkey of the other part:-

I. Considering that the recognition and maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the basic articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest;

II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure that the provisions of the aforesaid Constitution shall be respected:
Have agreed as follows:

ARTICLE 1
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity and security, as well as respect for its Constitution. It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. With this intent it prohibits all activity tending to promote directly or indirectly either union or partition of the Island.

ARTICLE 2
Greece the United Kingdom and Turkey, taking note of the undertakings by the Republic of Cyprus embodied in Article 1, recognize and guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, and also the provisions of the basic articles of its Constitution. They likewise undertake to prohibit, as far as lies within their power, all activity having the object of promoting directly or indirectly either the union of the Republic of Cyprus with any other State, or the partition of the Island.

ARTICLE 3
In the event of any breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, the United Kingdom, and Turkey undertake to consult together, with a view to making representations, or taking the necessary steps to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim Of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty.

ARTICLE 4
The present Treaty shall enter into force on signature. The High Contracting Parties undertake to register the present Treaty at the earliest possible date with the Secretariat of the United Nations, in accordance vith the provisions of Article 102 of the Chapter.

Go ahead and have a good laugh...

Where does it say that if the guarantors violate this agreement it makes it nil and void?????? I am not an expert on international law but I am sure that is not how it works,GR!...Because if the 60 agreements are void than ROC is an illegal entity,and has been so since 1964....

[doesntmatter]

Here you go lads because I doubt you've ever read it...

(b) Treaty of Guarantee between the Republic of Cyprus and Greece, the United Kingdom and Turkey

The Republic of Cyprus of the one part, and Greece, the United Kingdom and Turkey of the other part:-

I. Considering that the recognition and maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the basic articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest;

II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure that the provisions of the aforesaid Constitution shall be respected:
Have agreed as follows:

ARTICLE 1
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity and security, as well as respect for its Constitution. It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. With this intent it prohibits all activity tending to promote directly or indirectly either union or partition of the Island.

ARTICLE 2
Greece the United Kingdom and Turkey, taking note of the undertakings by the Republic of Cyprus embodied in Article 1, recognize and guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, and also the provisions of the basic articles of its Constitution. They likewise undertake to prohibit, as far as lies within their power, all activity having the object of promoting directly or indirectly either the union of the Republic of Cyprus with any other State, or the partition of the Island.

ARTICLE 3
In the event of any breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, the United Kingdom, and Turkey undertake to consult together, with a view to making representations, or taking the necessary steps to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim Of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty.

ARTICLE 4
The present Treaty shall enter into force on signature. The High Contracting Parties undertake to register the present Treaty at the earliest possible date with the Secretariat of the United Nations, in accordance vith the provisions of Article 102 of the Chapter.

Go ahead and have a good laugh...

Well, well, well, as it was the GCs and the Greece who as first broke the treaty with promoting the union of Cyprus with Greece GR has posted proof that the original "RoC" has not existed since 1963.

Excellent post, thanks GR,


Oh by the way, what was that you said about "using your IQ"?

I hope you don't mind me borrowing your little laughing emoticon, saves me searching for one.

[Get Real!]

Where does it say that if the guarantors violate this agreement it makes it nil and void?????? I am not an expert on international law but I am sure that is not how it works,GR!...Because if the 60 agreements are void than ROC is an illegal entity,and has been so since 1964....

The 1959 agreements is actually a group of agreements so it is possible for one or more sections of that group to be rendered invalid while the core of the constitution remaining intact. Anyway, here's more evidence of this treaties’ invalidity...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21279

[Byron]

I AM CERTAINLY NOT LAUGHING, WHAT IS THERE TO LAUGH ABOUT !

NO NEED TO POST THE TREATY ? YOU TOLD US IT DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE BECAUSE THE GUARANTOR POWERS MADE A FOOL OF THEMSELVES IN 1974 ! LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE ONLY FOOL HERE SAYING ONE THING THEN A LITTLE LATER CONTRADICTING YOURSELF.

You incompetent fool! Do you know what Greece, Turkey, Britain, and Cyprus, are talking about these days?

They are gradually writing up an undemocratic political arrangement supposedly for the coexistence of “two communities” on Cyprus, and as a DIRECT REPLACEMENT of the constitution the “Treaty of Guarantee” supposedly guarantees!!!

So besides everyone having already violated the “Treaty of Guarantee” from 35 years ago by doing EXACTLY the opposite of what it says, today they are even re-writing the constitution with the UN’s blessing!

Now given all the above facts, I’d like you to use your IQ if you have any, and tell me all about the validity of the “Treaty of Guarantee” in 2008!

I am sorry but I think there must be a problem with the way you convey your messages in English. I realise it may not be your first language but sometimes your posts are very difficult to follow.

You advocated on many previous posts, that firstly the constitution could be changed without the express authorisation of the guarantor powers, then you went on to say that the guarantor powers lost their rights in 1974. Now you are saying that the Guarantor powers are in the process of drafting a new agreement to replace the old one. Confused, yes I am !

Finally, I do not think you should be the judge on whether I am incompetent or not. If so please provide me with your credentials or perhaps we can discuss it over a cup of coffee ?

[Byron]

All three “guarantor” powers made complete fools of themselves in 1974 by violating their agreement in the most treasonous of ways and rendering it null & void. All sections of the RoC constitution that granted them any sort of power or say has been FORFEITED so there is no longer any point in arguing any section relevant to them.

Cyprus does not have and has not had any “guarantor powers” since 1974... end of story.

ARE YOU A LAWYER GR because you write absolute rubbish. It looks like the Turkish side on this forum know more about law than you and other Greek Cypriots.

To clarify once again:

Cyprus Republic still exists ( It is a member state of the EU )
If it exists so does its original constitution and the guarantor alliance under the Zurich Agreement. The only point I may say is that in LAW Turkey "perhaps" has relinquished her guarantor power by creating an illegal state contrary to the basic articles of the constitution.

What needs to happen now is to find a solution, so make proposals on how we go forward and stop dreaming about the past.

Countless UN resolutions are utterly ignored by all and sundry, the UN Charter itself has been made a mockery by successive UN Secretary Generals themselves, and particularly Annan (see second invasion of Iraq) let alone everyone else, and you are still wondering if the “Treaty of Guarantee” trashed over three decades ago, is still valid???

Go back to sleep…

It looks like you are already asleep good time with the continual rubbish you churn out.

Byron,
You are still to realise this: When GR! says international agreements are nil and void because the parties are not upholding certain aspects of them,you will just have to accept it..They are nil and void in GR's mind and GR's mind only...

Birkibrisli,

I truly agree with your comments. I am absolutely amazed by the abuse, bad language and above all lack of respect. The objective of the forum is to discuss in an amicable way proposals for a solution to the Cyprus problem. Instead we get history lessons, contradictions, Cypriots who denounce their heritage on both sides but mainly GREEK CYPRIOTS or Cypriots in the case of GR who just abuse the TURKISH community. Even though we have a different creed or language, including political beliefs does not mean that we cannot be civilised. What is the point of trying to find a solution if we cannot even talk to each other let alone live together.

I am afraid that if these are the the people who have been tasked the responsibility of solving the CYPRUS PROBLEM, it will never happen and I am beginning to say to myself what the hell !

Dear Byron,
Cypriots as a nation have been deeply traumatised by the events going back to the 50s...They are suffering collectively from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...(PTSD)...That is why they have serious cognitive distortion problems,multiple kinds of anxieties,compulsions and paranoid tendencies...I too have come to the conclusion that they are forever condemned to be at the mercy of certain foreign powers they mistakenly recognise as friendly or "motherly"...They do not deserve this,but they are too ill to realise what they are doing to each other...Only a miracle can save them from self-destruction...And I do not believe in miracles..

Well put Birkirlisi,

I find it stange however that outside of Cyprus, GREEKS and TURKS generally get on very well together !

[Viewpoint]

Byron the do not have to rule each other they just accept and live under other countires laws and administration.

[Get Real!]

Finally, I do not think you should be the judge on whether I am incompetent or not. If so please provide me with your credentials or perhaps we can discuss it over a cup of coffee ?

You asked earlier if I’m a lawyer, well I happen to be a psychiatrist so I’m more than qualified to diagnose you… free of charge of course.

[BirKibrisli]

Finally, I do not think you should be the judge on whether I am incompetent or not. If so please provide me with your credentials or perhaps we can discuss it over a cup of coffee ?

You asked earlier if I’m a lawyer, well I happen to be a psychiatrist so I’m more than qualified to diagnose you… free of charge of course.

Byron,Don't believe GR!...He is no psychiatrist... but don't tell him your dreams,just in case...