Cyprus-Forum.com

[kentish]

kikapu this is the first time i have read a non anti turkish rant from you and what in the main is fairly balanced views .however everything you say in your last post depends on gc's accepting a plan.you reckon "most GC's will go for it"but in my opinion most gc's will go for nothing that does not give them total domination of the whole island.they will never give anything so you cannot negotiate with someone that is never prepared to give.in these circumstances negotiatin does not exist.
my guess is that nothing will change in relation to the relationship of greek and turk on the island for at least another 20 years

[zan]

kikapu this is the first time i have read a non anti turkish rant from you and what in the main is fairly balanced views .however everything you say in your last post depends on gc's accepting a plan.you reckon "most GC's will go for it"but in my opinion most gc's will go for nothing that does not give them total domination of the whole island.they will never give anything so you cannot negotiate with someone that is never prepared to give.in these circumstances negotiatin does not exist.
my guess is that nothing will change in relation to the relationship of greek and turk on the island for at least another 20 years

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

[Kikapu]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

[Get Real!]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

BBF Federation is what's on the table, therefore with the right formula of Democracy and Human Rights respected, most GC's will go for it in my opinion, since it will be a complete contrast to what the majority rejected with the Annan Plan. As I remember back in March 08, Christofias told the GC's to start accepting the idea of a Federation for Cyprus. So far it has been the TC's who have tried every which way to reject Federation and push for Confederation instead. As you have surprised me with you acceptance of the upper house structure that will give the TC's a strong hand in decision makings, I sometimes wonder whether most TC's really understand how a Federation works, or do they just blindly follow their leaders without asking questions.? (I'll talk about the USA style Federal structure for Cyprus later)

What is the right formula? thats what has been eluding us for years you sound very naive making this comment, you strong hand is what GCs object to and will not accept thats why I said you have to sell this idea to GCs first as TCs will not object to haveing the ability of say stop on sensative issues. Ill wait to hear your Federal structure understanding and how it will establish the strong hand before commenting.

I completely understand in wanting to keep the north state in one piece, although according to Talat, the north right now is in TWO pieces, so it is not such a strange idea for having the north state in more than ONE piece if it benefits the TC's in maintaining complete control of their share in the upper house. Keeping the size as described in the AP ( 30% which most GC's will not go for, hence their refusal to accept the AP) you may find this to be a hindrance in protecting the upper house for the TC's. (More on this later.)

I personally would rather have the north state in one piece, how do you feel it is currently split in 2? lets not dwell on the size fo the states as this will not allow us to hear your federal structure that will resolve matters.

Making the north state 30% land mass with one man one vote that you support, freedom of movement with Democratic and Human Rights of all Cypriots citizens respected (including non TC's and GC's), you will not be able to run the north as a solely TC state or chose who can reside in the north or how many. Land and property of the GC's in the north will remain theirs except for certain situations, where return will be impossible for all practical purposes and will be compensated 100% for market value of today. Despite all this, the north will be able to function independently from the Federal Government close to 99%.!

I still do not feel that GCs will return to reside in the north state under TC adminsitration but derrogrations such as the one in Malta can be used to restrict an influx of GCs with the pure intention of taking control of the north state by sheer numbers. Another way around this is to have a island wide voting system whereby the first eg 20 TC MPs and 80 GC MP get elected to serve.

I was hoping you would say that if Turkey were to attack any Cypriots, you will be against it. You still can bring yourself to see yourself as a Cypriot even after peace is agreed on, but continue to see it as TC's v's GC's. I hope in time you can bring yourself to see all of Cyprus as your country and not just a part of it.!

One step ata time Kikapu "Cypriotism" takes time, in general no TC wants any harm to come to GCs this I can assure you but I am not sure about the reverse. The question was would you go against Turkey and the answer is if I feel they are wrong I would.

You have to understand something about any constitution in a Democracy, VP. Constitutions are a "living and breathing" entity and not just printed words piled together. That is why it is very important to have a Constitution that protects every one's Democratic and Human Rights from the beginning so that it is not left for chance by having Undemocratic and Racist provisions that the 1959 Constitution had, which brought the 1963 incident, so I agree with you there, that lets not take chances with our individual rights as citizens of Cyprus. Constitutions also from time to time needs to be amended to add or subtract items as needed with the will of the people. This too should be accommodated with a working and acceptable terms for such changes if and when needed, Democratically rather than a simple "Veto Power" as before.

I agree in general lbut to change a consititution you must have the support of both states.

Sorry VP, but the above explanation is totally meaningless and offers nothing to explain the difference between the Scots and you. Just stick to the fact that you are an indigenous to Cyprus and that you should have every right as anyone else with nothing more and nothing less as an equal citizen in every aspect, just like the Swiss Germans, the Swiss French, the Swiss Italians and the Romansch in Switzerland, and the Scots, the Welsh, the English in the UK along with the Irish from Northern Ireland. The moment you demand special treatment, you will be treated differently no matter what. In all honesty, you will not be respected as an "equal citizen" but a privileged individual that the Cypriot society owes you an entitlement.

Do the Scotts enjoy special privilidges?

I do understand where you are coming from but you should also understand this. By having ratios, you are putting a ceiling on number of TC's that can participate in any functions, no matter how many more talented TC's should be available above that allocated ratio, they will be rejected since those quotas has been filled, and my personal view on any ratios given to the TC's or using an American term "affirmative action", can only have a very negative impact on the TC's in the long run, because even the most productive and talented TC will not be respected for their accomplishments, but rather that they have gotten a "free ride" with the ratio system. This has been the danger the blacks and other minorities faced in the USA, and in the eyes of the most conservative radio talk-show hosts believes the same about Barack Obama.
See this video http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lovF-f8bkTU produced by Cenk Uygur on his show "The Young Turks" http://www.theyoungturks.com . He has some very interesting views in general, although, they may be too liberal for you.!

But having said all that, I think in the first 10 years, we can have the 4:1 ratios to allow TC's to establish themselves in all of the Federal government structures and public services sectors, even though I still hold on to my beliefs, that using quotas in hiring people, be it be sports, police, cooks or shoe polishers, only encourages mediocrity and punishes excellence in all areas of the work place. We want to be respected for our achievements in what we do, because we have earned them, and not because we were entitled to them.

I feel you have understood whre I am coming from if those choosing talent, experience, worker ets ets are democratic, fair open minded and not racists then we have safeguards in place that will become redundant in no time but imo the safety nets are vital to ensure that TCs are not disregarded by the majority who have been known to be anti TCs when they should be unbiased and choose the best man for the job..

[zan]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

I don't know which one of you to raise my eyebrows....The "Take al quotes out of context" or Mutley....

[Get Real!]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

I don't know which one of you to raise my eyebrows....The "Take al quotes out of context" or Mutley....

You should've never let us in on your secret pastime...

[doesntmatter]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

I don't know which one of you to raise my eyebrows....The "Take al quotes out of context" or Mutley....

You should've never let us in on your secret pastime...

Are you the Mutley he is talking about?

[Get Real!]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

I don't know which one of you to raise my eyebrows....The "Take al quotes out of context" or Mutley....

You should've never let us in on your secret pastime...

Are you the Mutley he is talking about?

That depends on whether he meant "mutley" or "mutely"...

[doesntmatter]

More respect to VP for entertaining this clown.......At the very least Kikapu will have Kofi Annn as is cell mate...

Isn't it time for you to go and lick your balls, Zan.!!

I don't know which one of you to raise my eyebrows....The "Take al quotes out of context" or Mutley....

You should've never let us in on your secret pastime...

Are you the Mutley he is talking about?

That depends on whether he meant "mutley" or "mutely"...

You are definitely not "mutely" so you must be the Mutley he is talking about.