Cyprus-Forum.com

[paliometoxo]

Turkish intellectuals issue apology to Armenians
By SUZAN FRASER

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — A group of about 200 Turkish intellectuals on Monday issued an apology on the Internet for the World War I-era massacres of Armenians in Turkey.

The group of prominent academics, journalists, writers and artists avoided using the contentious term "genocide" in the apology, using the less explosive "Great Catastrophe" instead.

But the apology is a sign that many in Turkey are ready to break a long-held taboo against acknowledging Turkish culpability for the deaths.

Historians estimate that, in the last days of the Ottoman Empire, up to 1.5 million Armenians were killed by Ottoman Turks in what is widely regarded as the first genocide of the 20th century. Armenians have long pushed for the deaths to be recognized as genocide.

While Turkey does not deny that many died in that era, the country has rejected the term genocide, saying the death toll is inflated and the deaths resulted from civil unrest during the Ottoman Empire's collapse.

"My conscience does not accept that (we) remain insensitive toward and deny the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected in 1915," read the apology. "I reject this injustice, share in the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers, and apologize to them."

Nearly 2,500 members of the public also signed the online apology, giving their support to the intellectuals.

Nobel Prize-winning author Orhan Pamuk was prosecuted after he commented on the mass killings in 2005. Hrant Dink, an ethnic Armenian journalist was shot outside his Istanbul office in 2007, following his prosecution for comments he made about the killings of Armenians.

Turkish nationalists have criticized the online apology and on Monday a group of some 60 retired Turkish diplomats described the move "as unfair, wrong and unfavorable to national interests."

"Such an incorrect and one-sided attempt would mean disrespecting our history," the diplomats said.

Devlet Bahceli, the leader of the Nationalist Action Party said: "No one has the right to insult our ancestors, to present them as criminals and to ask for an apology."

By late Monday, there were no public threats of legal action over the petition.

The apology comes at a time when Turkey and Armenia have taken steps toward repairing ties. The two neighbors have no diplomatic relations and their shared border has been closed since 1993, when Turkey protested Armenia's occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh. Turkey backs Azerbaijan's claims to the disputed region, which has a high number of ethnic Armenian residents but is located within Azerbaijan's borders.

In September, however, President Abdullah Gul became the first Turkish leader to visit Armenia, where he and Armenian President Serge Sarkisian watched their countries' football teams play a World Cup qualifying match.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD953AJBG1

Site:
http://www.ozurdiliyoruz.com/

time to kiss americas ass now they lost bush.. he was won over from turkey by having such a large army now with obama it wont be the same

[bill cobbett]

Believe me I really, really have been in two minds as to whether to contribute to this thread and whether to post the following awful pictures or whether to just post the links or of course to do nothing but unless we learn from the past, then these things have a habit of happening again, as indeed they still do in various places around the world today.

Here is a public hanging of Armenians in Constantinople in 1916



This is one of the corpses of some "guilty" Armenian children left in the gutter



These and others remind me of the pictures of the Nazi death-camps and I have seen many others tonight which reinforce my views that these things happen when "good people do nothing" and especially when the morally corrupt amongst us not only refuse to apologise for these most awful of crimes against humanity but would go further by seeking to justify and defend these atrocities.

[Cem]

Does this apology now officially make Ataturk a war criminal?

No, because he was not involved in any way whatsoever with this scheme.
Those who were instrumental in planning this were mainly Talat pasha, Enver pasha, Dr.Bahaddin Shakir who were the rulers of CUP (Committee of Union and Progress).

As Mustafa Kemal was the arch rival of these individuals and not in the ruling body of CUP, he did not take part in any of their plans.

For details, see http://www.armeniangenocide.com.

Anyway, if there had been any slighest suspicion as to his involvement in the A.G, he would have been killed by armenian revenge squads. (see Solomon Tellehiran)

Ataturk was power hungry, hence the reason he back-stabbed others in higer command. He was involved in the massacres because he was an Officer with the Young Turks, who were instrumental in the killings.

I wouldn't be surprised to see such stupid remarks with no credible evidence coming from you.

Now, get back to to your work !

[Cem]

No, because he was not involved in any way whatsoever with this scheme.
Those who were instrumental in planning this were mainly Talat pasha, Enver pasha, Dr.Bahaddin Shakir who were the rulers of CUP (Committee of Union and Progress).

As Mustafa Kemal was the arch rival of these individuals and not in the ruling body of CUP, he did not take part in any of their plans.

For details, see http://www.armeniangenocide.com.

Anyway, if there had been any slighest suspicion as to his involvement in the A.G, he would have been killed by armenian revenge squads. (see Solomon Tellehiran)

Armenians were bayoneted, burnt to death, herded off hillsides, drowned, asphyxiated, shot......... but most of them were starved to death, or died of thirst or exhaustion during the long trek to Syria. Now, think about the Turkish official who's job it was to organise the relocation of the Armenians. Under this man's directorship, hundreds of thousands of Armenian women and children perished in the most cruel way. Now, Cem the question is..... did this man through his actions or inactions deliberately cause the deaths of these innocent people ? If not a murderer, was this man grossly incompetent or stupid ? Would you ever give this man an important job again ? Well, this man's name is Sukru (Shukru ?) Kaya and he became Turkey's foreign minister and Secretary-General of Ataturk's CHP party as well as a few other important posts. Was this man a murderer or an incompetent ? If the latter, how could such a man become a foreign minister, a critical post in the early days of the Republic ? Seriously ?

Or was the Secretary-General of Ataturk's CHP party a mass murderer of hundreds of thousands of women and children ?

Perhaps there are other alternatives but it doesn't look good from my point of view.

http://www.www.armeniangenocide.com/sho ... ostcount=9

First of all, the link above does not say anything about your allegations. Second, that Shukru Kaya being appointed as minister in Ataturk's cabinet does still not provide credible evidence as to this latter's involvement in A.G either.

For God' s sake, haven't you heard about the organization named ODESSA (in German:Organization of the Former members of the SS ) based on which Frederick Forsyth wrote his fiction titled "The ODESSA File" (later made into a movie with the same title) ?
Although, Forsyth's novel was a fiction, ODESSA did exist even some of its members were recruited by CIA to work for them in post-war east germany.
Many members of ODESSA did infiltrate public sector and worked at various posts in successive German governments. Does this make all ministers Nazis then ?

[denizaksulu]

Does this apology now officially make Ataturk a war criminal?

No, because he was not involved in any way whatsoever with this scheme.
Those who were instrumental in planning this were mainly Talat pasha, Enver pasha, Dr.Bahaddin Shakir who were the rulers of CUP (Committee of Union and Progress).

As Mustafa Kemal was the arch rival of these individuals and not in the ruling body of CUP, he did not take part in any of their plans.

For details, see http://www.armeniangenocide.com.

Anyway, if there had been any slighest suspicion as to his involvement in the A.G, he would have been killed by armenian revenge squads. (see Solomon Tellehiran)

Ataturk was power hungry, hence the reason he back-stabbed others in higer command. He was involved in the massacres because he was an Officer with the Young Turks, who were instrumental in the killings.

Mustafa Kemal, as he was known then, was dead against the 'unholy' triumvirate. He was also implicated in a plot to overthrow these three,(Talat, Enver and Djemal) simply because he disagreed with their 'Germanophyllic policies. He saw a military alliance with Germany as being detrimental t the survival of the Empire. He was eventually removed to far away places where his influence was minimised.

[Nikephoros]

When Ataturk's troops entered Smyrna(Sept. 9, 1922) the inhabitants of the Armenian quarter were systematically murdered. The Greeks were massacred as well but more pell-mell, the Kemalist forces were serious at that late date of continuing the Ittihadist path.

According to Akcam most of the people joining the early Nationalist Movement, were people heavily involved in killing the Armenians. The Ottoman III army which was never disbanded by the Allies(outside of their influence) in 1920 invaded the nascent Republic of Armenia. Because this was the only field army not formally disbanded by the Allies it was the nucleus so to speak of the later Kemalist forces in the East. In other areas the Ottoman army pretended to hand over their weapons and disbanded but often operated underground as chete bands attacking Christian population.

[denizaksulu]

When Ataturk's troops entered Smyrna(Sept. 9, 1922) the inhabitants of the Armenian quarter were systematically murdered. The Greeks were massacred as well but more pell-mell, the Kemalist forces were serious at that late date of continuing the Ittihadist path.

According to Akcam most of the people joining the early Nationalist Movement, were people heavily involved in killing the Armenians. The Ottoman III army which was never disbanded by the Allies(outside of their influence) in 1920 invaded the nascent Republic of Armenia. Because this was the only field army not formally disbanded by the Allies it was the nucleus so to speak of the later Kemalist forces in the East. In other areas the Ottoman army pretended to hand over their weapons and disbanded but often operated underground as chete bands attacking Christian population.

Most of the chetes were a bunch of lawless fugitives. Depending on what promises they were made they would change sides pell mell. Though some were honourable, most were not. They were only after loot .Most of the Anatolian Turks were made aware of the massacres commited by the Greek Expeditionary forces after their defeat by the Nationalist forces of Mustafa Kemal. I dont think Mustafa Kemal had the power to stop the terrible events in Smyrna, which was fuelled by a desire for revenge, as he had need of these 'irregulars' for the next step of liberation. Tha next step was the Liberation of the capital city of Constantinople. He dared not antagonise them.IMO.

[Cem]

When Ataturk's troops entered Smyrna(Sept. 9, 1922) the inhabitants of the Armenian quarter were systematically murdered. The Greeks were massacred as well but more pell-mell, the Kemalist forces were serious at that late date of continuing the Ittihadist path.

According to Akcam most of the people joining the early Nationalist Movement, were people heavily involved in killing the Armenians. The Ottoman III army which was never disbanded by the Allies(outside of their influence) in 1920 invaded the nascent Republic of Armenia. Because this was the only field army not formally disbanded by the Allies it was the nucleus so to speak of the later Kemalist forces in the East. In other areas the Ottoman army pretended to hand over their weapons and disbanded but often operated underground as chete bands attacking Christian population.

For your information, it was not Ataturk who was in command of the forces that entered İzmir (Smyrna) but rather Nuraddin pacha.
check www.armeniangenocide.com for details as to who perpetrated the slaughter of the city's civilians.
On that occasion, perhaps, you might like to know how the greek army-particularly- its irregulars- committed atrocities almost 300 kms away from İzmir where, unlike İzmir, there were no thrace of any hellenic presence whatsoever which they were supposed to defend.(see particularly the book by greek writer Dido Sotiriyu)

[Viewpoint]

They bit the hand that fed them and sided with the Russians when the going got tough and the Turks were vunerable they tried to stab them in the back, they paid the price. You must know that throughout history the majority pay the mistakes of the few, stabbing the Turks in the back meant putting their population at risk they took the opportunity and it blew up in their faces.

The able-bodied males in the labour battalions could not have "sided with the Russians" or "stab Turks in the back" because they were under the complete control of the Turkish military. They cannot be backstabbers.

Throughout history, blah,blah, blah! Are you giving me a lesson in history or ethics ? Did the Americans murder the interned Japanese women and children during WW2 ? Do you have historical precedents that justify or excuse the killing of innocent women and children who are miles away from a war zone ?

Go and find some independent research.

[Viewpoint]

Bloody backstabbers.

You are a pathetic human being for making such a statement but then again I would expect anything less from you. I guess in your mind if you can dehumanise us then the actions of the Ottomans are ok in that little close minded brain of yours.

Did the Armenians side with the Russians against the Turks?