Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

The apology does not bind Turkey in any shape way or form. This is no more than a group of individuals making a goodwill gesture.

[Cem]

Does this apology now officially make Ataturk a war criminal?

No, because he was not involved in any way whatsoever with this scheme.
Those who were instrumental in planning this were mainly Talat pasha, Enver pasha, Dr.Bahaddin Shakir who were the rulers of CUP (Committee of Union and Progress).

As Mustafa Kemal was the arch rival of these individuals and not in the ruling body of CUP, he did not take part in any of their plans.

For details, see http://www.armeniangenocide.com.

Anyway, if there had been any slighest suspicion as to his involvement in the A.G, he would have been killed by armenian revenge squads. (see Solomon Tellehiran)

[Tim Drayton]

Does this apology now officially make Ataturk a war criminal?

You may not believe it, but I have visited the home of an Armenian family in Istanbul, and a large framed picture of Ataturk adorned their living room wall. In common with other minorities like the Alevis, Armenians in Turkey consider that life for them is much better under the secular system introduced by Ataturk than it would be in a Sunni-Muslim dominated state.

[Nikephoros]

Alot of these Turkish intellectuals have been convinced no doubt by excellent research of Armenian historians such as Vahakn Dadrian(former Istanbul Armenian) who has been researching the genocide since the 1970s. Dadrian relies primarily on impeccable sources from the archives of Germany and Austrian Empire, the allies of the Ottoman Empire and he also uses extensive Turkish sources like the Ottoman court martial against the perpetrators. Taner Akcam, who is the only Turkish historian to publish a serious study of the genocide studied under Dadrian. Alot of these Turkish intellectuals starting the petition were friends of the murdered Hrant Dink.

Contrast this and ask what results have Athens and Nicosia obtained with their well known policies of promoting Turkish EU accession, with their support the AKP and Talat? These embarrassing idiots who run Greek and Cypriot foreign policy have alot more resources at their disposal than the Armenians but do alot less. How come there are no books by Greek historians in English that use heavily Turkish sources to destroy the arguments of official Turkish history which are vigorously created in Turkey and circulated amongst the Turkish populace and for foreign consumption as well? The Armenians are alot more ahead in this field. This cannot be ignored from the Greek camp. Turkey has gotten a total imputiny for its past crimes and this only emboldens Ankara to further crimes. This is why it is imperative that a core of serious historians using primarily Turkish sources if possible are needed to lift the veil of Turkish official history.

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

Bloody backstabbers.

You are a pathetic human being for making such a statement but then again I would expect anything less from you. I guess in your mind if you can dehumanise us then the actions of the Ottomans are ok in that little close minded brain of yours.

[Oracle]

Does this apology now officially make Ataturk a war criminal?

No, because he was not involved in any way whatsoever with this scheme.
Those who were instrumental in planning this were mainly Talat pasha, Enver pasha, Dr.Bahaddin Shakir who were the rulers of CUP (Committee of Union and Progress).

As Mustafa Kemal was the arch rival of these individuals and not in the ruling body of CUP, he did not take part in any of their plans.

For details, see http://www.armeniangenocide.com.

Anyway, if there had been any slighest suspicion as to his involvement in the A.G, he would have been killed by armenian revenge squads. (see Solomon Tellehiran)

Ataturk was power hungry, hence the reason he back-stabbed others in higer command. He was involved in the massacres because he was an Officer with the Young Turks, who were instrumental in the killings.

[GreekForumer]

Bloody backstabbers.

Well, it is now clear to all of us why Viewpoint has psychotic suspicions of GCs and someone like Kikapu does not. Viewpoint sees in GCs the reflection of his own vengeful and malevolent soul. The psychologists call it projection.

Here are some questions for you, Viewpoint, about the thousands of unarmed Armenian males conscripted into the labour battalions (Amele Taburu). Were these Armenian men backstabbers ? All of them ? Would a backstabbing Armenian obey the Turkish Government's conscription laws or not ? Even if they were backstabbers who obeyed the Government, what harm could they do if they were unarmed and under the control and supervision of the Turkish military ? I think calling these men backstabbers is grossly unfair. So what ever happened to these Armenian males ? When were they discharged ?

And what about the wives and sisters and children and elderly parents of these men ? Were they all backstabbers too ? Even the little kids ? And what happened to these vulnerable people ? Most of them died after obeying the Government and walking hundreds of miles to their ghastly deaths.

The obedient able-bodied males disappear off the face of the earth and their obedient wives and children "accidentally" die of thirst and hunger during the "relocation".

Are these Armenians "bloody backstabbers" ?

[Viewpoint]

Bloody backstabbers.

Well, it is now clear to all of us why Viewpoint has psychotic suspicions of GCs and someone like Kikapu does not. Viewpoint sees in GCs the reflection of his own vengeful and malevolent soul. The psychologists call it projection.

Here are some questions for you, Viewpoint, about the thousands of unarmed Armenian males conscripted into the labour battalions (Amele Taburu). Were these Armenian men backstabbers ? All of them ? Would a backstabbing Armenian obey the Turkish Government's conscription laws or not ? Even if they were backstabbers who obeyed the Government, what harm could they do if they were unarmed and under the control and supervision of the Turkish military ? I think calling these men backstabbers is grossly unfair. So what ever happened to these Armenian males ? When were they discharged ?

And what about the wives and sisters and children and elderly parents of these men ? Were they all backstabbers too ? Even the little kids ? And what happened to these vulnerable people ? Most of them died after obeying the Government and walking hundreds of miles to their ghastly deaths.

The obedient able-bodied males disappear off the face of the earth and their obedient wives and children "accidentally" die of thirst and hunger during the "relocation".

Are these Armenians "bloody backstabbers" ?

They bit the hand that fed them and sided with the Russians when the going got tough and the Turks were vunerable they tried to stab them in the back, they paid the price. You must know that throughout history the majority pay the mistakes of the few, stabbing the Turks in the back meant putting their population at risk they took the opportunity and it blew up in their faces.

[GreekForumer]

They bit the hand that fed them and sided with the Russians when the going got tough and the Turks were vunerable they tried to stab them in the back, they paid the price. You must know that throughout history the majority pay the mistakes of the few, stabbing the Turks in the back meant putting their population at risk they took the opportunity and it blew up in their faces.

The able-bodied males in the labour battalions could not have "sided with the Russians" or "stab Turks in the back" because they were under the complete control of the Turkish military. They cannot be backstabbers.

Throughout history, blah,blah, blah! Are you giving me a lesson in history or ethics ? Did the Americans murder the interned Japanese women and children during WW2 ? Do you have historical precedents that justify or excuse the killing of innocent women and children who are miles away from a war zone ?

[GreekForumer]

No, because he was not involved in any way whatsoever with this scheme.
Those who were instrumental in planning this were mainly Talat pasha, Enver pasha, Dr.Bahaddin Shakir who were the rulers of CUP (Committee of Union and Progress).

As Mustafa Kemal was the arch rival of these individuals and not in the ruling body of CUP, he did not take part in any of their plans.

For details, see http://www.armeniangenocide.com.

Anyway, if there had been any slighest suspicion as to his involvement in the A.G, he would have been killed by armenian revenge squads. (see Solomon Tellehiran)

Armenians were bayoneted, burnt to death, herded off hillsides, drowned, asphyxiated, shot......... but most of them were starved to death, or died of thirst or exhaustion during the long trek to Syria. Now, think about the Turkish official who's job it was to organise the relocation of the Armenians. Under this man's directorship, hundreds of thousands of Armenian women and children perished in the most cruel way. Now, Cem the question is..... did this man through his actions or inactions deliberately cause the deaths of these innocent people ? If not a murderer, was this man grossly incompetent or stupid ? Would you ever give this man an important job again ? Well, this man's name is Sukru (Shukru ?) Kaya and he became Turkey's foreign minister and Secretary-General of Ataturk's CHP party as well as a few other important posts. Was this man a murderer or an incompetent ? If the latter, how could such a man become a foreign minister, a critical post in the early days of the Republic ? Seriously ?

Or was the Secretary-General of Ataturk's CHP party a mass murderer of hundreds of thousands of women and children ?

Perhaps there are other alternatives but it doesn't look good from my point of view.

http://www.www.armeniangenocide.com/sho ... ostcount=9