Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

On the contrary, us Cypriots want to press on to the major bigots such as yourself, that we do not need to be associated with mother countried because there is no fundamental basis for such an association and with political terms, this stupidity has already cost us a great deal.

[Oracle]

Bananiot self-proclaimed, biased opinions like yours are meaningless.

I think you have your "Genetics" and "Culture" all mixed up. One is akin to Nature and the other to Nurture. Whereas most of us want to promote a cultural/civil identity, you want to promote Eugenics and breeding.

[Bananiot]

You seem to forget how this debate started. Let me remind you:

In 1990 samples from 116 Turkish Cypriot, 303 Greek Cypriot, 235 mainland turks and 174 mainland greeks were tested in the US by professor Huisman.

Genetic illness and DNA expert Dr. Erol Baysal with the assistance of english, turkish, cypriot and greek experts conducted the work, and found that the Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot DNA was very close.

Even though the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot see the mainland as there genetic source they are very far apart and also very different and that certain codes in the DNA which can only be found in cypriots was conclusive proof that Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot were the only ones that have this DNA.

Even though it was always assumed that Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot were close this showed they were much closer than could be anticipated.

I have no doubt that the original poster had something different in mind to your interpretations that knocked the intended purpose of the poster off road.

Why do you think the above was posted?

[Tim Drayton]

Of course it is nonsense to argue for the existence of a "Cypriot race" based on genetic evidence.

Is this really the point?

If you examine the discourse promoted by Denktash and those that think like him, it is rooted in arguments of a genetic nature. The Turkish word "soydaş" ["soy" lineage + the suffix "daş" indicated something shared = 'one of shared lineage'] is constantly employed to support their arguments. Just to quote one example found at random:

http://www.ilmiarastirma.net/?Pg=Detail&Number=1147

Kıbrıs'ın tek bir devlet olduğu 1974 öncesi dönemde, adadaki soydaşlarımıza karşı korkunç saldırılar düzenlendiği, uzun vadeli bir soykırım yürütüldüğü herkesin bildiği bir gerçektir.

TRANSLATION
"It is a truth known to everyone that prior to 1974 when Cyprus was a single state that horrific attacks were conducted and long-term genocide was practiced against our "soydaş" [fellow kinsmen, blood brothers] on the island."

In other words, the 1974 invasion is justified in terms of kinship.

If the argument that Turkey is entitled and duty bound to intervene in Cyprus is premised on a putative genetic bond, then surely it is quite legitimate for opponents of this thesis to exploit any available genetic evidence that destroys this premise.

I am not sure if similar arguments are made in Greece.

[Bananiot]

Of course they are Tim, and I agree with you entirely.

[Piratis]

On the contrary, us Cypriots want to press on to the major bigots such as yourself, that we do not need to be associated with mother countried because there is no fundamental basis for such an association and with political terms, this stupidity has already cost us a great deal.

What us Cypriots want is simple: To protect our own rights and serve our own interests (but without violating the rights of others, like some friends of you do).

If we were all Bananiots there would be no Greeks today, since Bananiots always kiss the ass of those who they perceive as more powerful and are not willing to fight against the odds. So that couldn't possibly serve our interests.

When you fight for your rights you sometimes win and sometimes lose. If you don't fight for your rights at all, then you are always a loser (hamenos pou sheri).

[Oracle]

You seem to forget how this debate started. Let me remind you:

In 1990 samples from 116 Turkish Cypriot, 303 Greek Cypriot, 235 mainland turks and 174 mainland greeks were tested in the US by professor Huisman.

Genetic illness and DNA expert Dr. Erol Baysal with the assistance of english, turkish, cypriot and greek experts conducted the work, and found that the Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot DNA was very close.

Even though the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot see the mainland as there genetic source they are very far apart and also very different and that certain codes in the DNA which can only be found in cypriots was conclusive proof that Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot were the only ones that have this DNA.

Even though it was always assumed that Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot were close this showed they were much closer than could be anticipated.

I have no doubt that the original poster had something different in mind to your interpretations that knocked the intended purpose of the poster off road.

Why do you think the above was posted?

If you accept that statement then you co-promote the establishment of "Race" based on the "evidence" from ONE selected mutated gene and ignore the vast meaningful data which proves we are genetically different as individuals more-so than we are to assigned "races".

You are effectively perpetuating the foundations of Eugenics ....

[Paphitis]

Of course it is nonsense to argue for the existence of a "Cypriot race" based on genetic evidence.

The only thing that is possible is the creation of a Cypriot Nation, where all citizens, GCs and TCs, are EQUAL. Complex solutions where citizens are segregated into groups, and these groups have non symmetrical political rights, will not work.

If you examine the discourse promoted by Denktash and those that think like him, it is rooted in arguments of a genetic nature. The Turkish word "soydaş" ["soy" lineage + the suffix "daş" indicated something shared = 'one of shared lineage'] is constantly employed to support their arguments. Just to quote one example found at random:

Our legitimate cultural and ethnic characteristics, which have been present in Cyprus for thousands of years, will never be compromised just because another group of people decided to invade us in 1571, and now feel insecure about their minority status.

If they feel such insecurity, then they could migrate to Turkey, where they are the majority, and assist their "blood brothers" in oppressing "the Mountain Turks (Kurds).

It is a truth known to everyone that prior to 1974 when Cyprus was a single state that horrific attacks were conducted and long-term genocide was practiced against our "soydaş" [fellow kinsmen, blood brothers] on the island.

In other words, the 1974 invasion is justified in terms of kinship.

Nothing new. They were the first to commit genocide against us when they invaded Cyprus in 1571.

They oppressed us for 300 years, and in 1958, they initiated the first inter communal violent acts in order to impede our fight for self determination. They again invaded us in 1974, killing thousands and ethnically cleansing 200,000 indigenous Cypriots from the lands they occupied for millenniums.

If the argument that Turkey is entitled and duty bound to intervene in Cyprus is premised on a putative genetic bond, then surely it is quite legitimate for opponents of this thesis to exploit any available genetic evidence that destroys this premise.

Both arguments are grossly flawed. All humans are equal. Ethnic groups only exist due to common language, religious, and cultural links.

Too many people are voicing their opinions on a subject matter that is so complex. And all of us lack the knowledge to be offering any hypothisis about "genes" or DNA. Oracle has spent a life time researching these areas and yet many of you are still trying to give opinions which contravene what is scientifically proven or known.

You cannot split people by studying their genes or DNA. It is neither acceptable or ethical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics

[Oracle]

We are talking about the GCs and TCs having the same gene pool,which is different to their respective "motherlands"...

This is the stuff of Eugenics and has no Scientific basis behind it whatsoever. Only a modern day racist can cling on to such beliefs.

There is only one gene pool ... it is the Earth's gene pool and your genes are made from the very same stuff as PLANT genes and bacterial genes and most (maybe all) of our genes function in exactly the same way as PLANT genes and bacterial genes. Having different types of genes (e.g. to make chlorophyll or milk) can place us into different groups (and speciation) ... but as Humans we do NOT form genetically different gene pools ... We are ALL, as part of this one species, far too genetically similar, and that includes the Amazonian tribes which have not mixed with others for thousands of years.

There are no NEW genes that one human has, that another does not, in order to constitute a new or different race. We all have the same genes, one gene pool, albeit variations which give us blue eyes or brown eyes, bigger lungs or smaller brains!

[BirKibrisli]

Poor Birkibrisli, I feel for you and I will stand by your side and fight the bigots till death. Not as Cypriots but as human beings.

Thanks for your empathy,Bananiot...I think I am ready to give up and admit defeat...I believe we will have less of a chance as human beings to win over the bigots...If otherwise intelligent and sensible people cannot see that the whole problem started because certain foreign powers convinced us we were Greeks or Turks before we are Cypriots,and still to this day they insist on hanging off the aprons of their "mothers",what chance is there of uniting this God forsaken country...????It is easy to sing the virtues of DEMOCRACY when you know you are in the majority...It is easy to hold the centuries old grudges and the bitterness and hatred towards what you consider "the enemy"...And want to exctract punishment and revenge...It is somewhat harder to face yourself honestly and admit that you were terribly callous in dealing with your main minority...And admit that you have put such fear and terror into that minority that they will not trust you as long as you keep insisting that your ethnicity means everything to you and you could not possibly live without rubbing it into the other side's faces...What else is there to say?

I want to live in a fully democratic country,where everyone has one vote of equal value,and where one's ethnicity plays no more part in their lives than the colour of their eyes or hair...But this will never happen as long as people insist on holding tightly onto the very illness (ethnic nationalism) which has crippled them for more than half a century...
Words have failed me...I can only watch from a distance how my beloved country slowly self-destructs...