Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Oracle, do you anything on domestication of animals? Does it promote phenotypic evolution in any way?

[free_cyprus]

all i did was point out the scientific facts regarding the cypriots DNA i have mentioned this problem and asked not only the people in this forum to have a DNA test done but whole cyprus,

it seems to em most of the people in this forum and in general in cyprus greek speaking and turkish speaking will go to any lenths to deny our own identity as cypriots the only valid thing we have left and yet they even try and distroy that from us .

its not bad enough they have tortured u for centuries gave us their names gave us their riligions and so forth but now theyeven want to take away from us our only belief that we are cypriots, but even that has become a problem since most of you in thsi forum are greeks and turks then i kindly ask you where the hell is cypriot people if you are all greeks and turks history does not tell us that genocide was commited in cyprus, so there for cypriots must be cypriots

[Get Real!]

Count Vlad (Drakula) himself was an Ottoman Officer. So was his brother. The brother was sent to crush the rebellious Count Vlad, Drakula got away and returned at a later stage to become the 'Kazikli Voyvoda, where he crushed the Ottoman armies and allegedly impaled 30,000 of them.

Ever heard of Zan the inhaler?

[Oracle]

all i did was point out the scientific facts regarding the cypriots DNA i have mentioned this problem and asked not only the people in this forum to have a DNA test done but whole cyprus,

it seems to em most of the people in this forum and in general in cyprus greek speaking and turkish speaking will go to any lenths to deny our own identity as cypriots the only valid thing we have left and yet they even try and distroy that from us .

its not bad enough they have tortured u for centuries gave us their names gave us their riligions and so forth but now theyeven want to take away from us our only belief that we are cypriots, but even that has become a problem since most of you in thsi forum are greeks and turks then i kindly ask you where the hell is cypriot people if you are all greeks and turks history does not tell us that genocide was commited in cyprus, so there for cypriots must be cypriots

Where did you point out the scientific facts?

I asked you for them and you complained.

No one is denying you are Cypriot, if you are. But don't look to DNA to prove it, because the most it will do, is tell us if you are Human or a Chimp! ... and even then, it may take more than one gene to prove it!

[BirKibrisli]

Just found this thread from 2005....You might find it interesting,Oracle...

Okey,I have the article in front of me,Kifeas.

A study carried out in 1990 examined the blood samples of 116 TCs,303GCs,235 Mainland Turks and 174 mainland Greeks.This was done in the USA by DrErol Baysal under the supervision of Professor Huisman (an American) and with contributions of English,turkish,Cypriot and Greek scientists.

The result showed that DNA genes of the TCS and GCs were not as close as expected to their respective "motherlands"Turkey and Greece,but belonged to the same Cypriot gene pool which was not similar to any gene pool in the region.
"This was normal and expected," said Dr Baysal," and could be explained by the fact that Cyprus was an island community".

This study was published in "the British Journal of Haematology" in 1992.
Dr Erol Baysal is a DNA expert with similar studies in many parts of the world including Europe,Asia,Middle East,Far East,North Africa,and the USA.

He was born in Nicosia in 1960,studied in England and America,and was once the head of DNA section of the biggest Thalasemmy centre in the USA.

___________________

There you go everyone,scientific proof that Cypriots are biologically the same race. We have been killing ourselves all this time.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ol&start=0

[Piratis]

Just found this thread from 2005....You might find it interesting,Oracle...

Okey,I have the article in front of me,Kifeas.

A study carried out in 1990 examined the blood samples of 116 TCs,303GCs,235 Mainland Turks and 174 mainland Greeks.This was done in the USA by DrErol Baysal under the supervision of Professor Huisman (an American) and with contributions of English,turkish,Cypriot and Greek scientists.

The result showed that DNA genes of the TCS and GCs were not as close as expected to their respective "motherlands"Turkey and Greece,but belonged to the same Cypriot gene pool which was not similar to any gene pool in the region.
"This was normal and expected," said Dr Baysal," and could be explained by the fact that Cyprus was an island community".

This study was published in "the British Journal of Haematology" in 1992.
Dr Erol Baysal is a DNA expert with similar studies in many parts of the world including Europe,Asia,Middle East,Far East,North Africa,and the USA.

He was born in Nicosia in 1960,studied in England and America,and was once the head of DNA section of the biggest Thalasemmy centre in the USA.

___________________

There you go everyone,scientific proof that Cypriots are biologically the same race. We have been killing ourselves all this time.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ol&start=0

Ethnicity is not about genes. Ethnicity is about identity, which is usually derived from things like language, culture and religion. Most importantly people have the human right to identify themselves as they wish.

For example, the Turks, genetically, are not Turks. The real original Turks were from far east. Still we are not calling them something like "bastardized Kurds", we call them Turks, because that is the identity they choose.

Cypriots are among those people who created what being "Greek" means. We were speaking Greek on this island before the terms "Greek", "Hellenes" etc were created to describe our ethnicity. The Cypriots (=Greeks) are those who discovered the Greek Alphabet to write down their own language (Greek), when in mainland Greece most people were uneducated. You can't take from us our ethnicity and our contribution to the creation of our civilization just because it doesn't suit you.

But we don't even need to do such a deep analysis. The case here is that the vast majority of people wanted to unite with Greece, and some foreigners and a small minority denied this to us.

It is as if the TC minority had vetoed our EU accession despite being desirable by the vast majority of Cypriots, and then try to excuse their forceful and undemocratic act by trying to prove that Cyprus is in Asia and Cypriots Asians and that is why we shouldn't belong in EU. Well, we want to belong in EU, just like we wanted to be part of a Greek state, and we had every right to do it. Period. Whether you think we are European or not, or if we Greek or not, is totally besides the point. Think whatever you want. What you don't have the right to do is to force on us your will by undemocratic means.

Those who did not accept the democratically expressed wish of the Cypriot people and attacked us to deny from us our rights are those who are responsible for the conflict and the consequences of the conflict.

[BirKibrisli]

Just found this thread from 2005....You might find it interesting,Oracle...

Okey,I have the article in front of me,Kifeas.

A study carried out in 1990 examined the blood samples of 116 TCs,303GCs,235 Mainland Turks and 174 mainland Greeks.This was done in the USA by DrErol Baysal under the supervision of Professor Huisman (an American) and with contributions of English,turkish,Cypriot and Greek scientists.

The result showed that DNA genes of the TCS and GCs were not as close as expected to their respective "motherlands"Turkey and Greece,but belonged to the same Cypriot gene pool which was not similar to any gene pool in the region.
"This was normal and expected," said Dr Baysal," and could be explained by the fact that Cyprus was an island community".

This study was published in "the British Journal of Haematology" in 1992.
Dr Erol Baysal is a DNA expert with similar studies in many parts of the world including Europe,Asia,Middle East,Far East,North Africa,and the USA.

He was born in Nicosia in 1960,studied in England and America,and was once the head of DNA section of the biggest Thalasemmy centre in the USA.

___________________

There you go everyone,scientific proof that Cypriots are biologically the same race. We have been killing ourselves all this time.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ol&start=0

Ethnicity is not about genes. Ethnicity is about identity, which is usually derived from things like language, culture and religion. Most importantly people have the human right to identify themselves as they wish.

For example, the Turks, genetically, are not Turks. The real original Turks were from far east. Still we are not calling them something like "bastardized Kurds", we call them Turks, because that is the identity they choose.

Cypriots are among those people who created what being "Greek" means. We were speaking Greek on this island before the terms "Greek", "Hellenes" etc were created to describe our ethnicity. The Cypriots (=Greeks) are those who discovered the Greek Alphabet to write down their own language (Greek), when in mainland Greece most people were uneducated. You can't take from us our ethnicity and our contribution to the creation of our civilization just because it doesn't suit you.

But we don't even need to do such a deep analysis. The case here is that the vast majority of people wanted to unite with Greece, and some foreigners and a small minority denied this to us.

It is as if the TC minority had vetoed our EU accession despite being desirable by the vast majority of Cypriots, and then try to excuse their forceful and undemocratic act by trying to prove that Cyprus is in Asia and Cypriots Asians and that is why we shouldn't belong in EU. Well, we want to belong in EU, just like we wanted to be part of a Greek state, and we had every right to do it. Period. Whether you think we are European or not, or if we Greek or not, is totally besides the point. Think whatever you want. What you don't have the right to do is to force on us your will by undemocratic means.

Those who did not accept the democratically expressed wish of the Cypriot people and attacked us to deny from us our rights are those who are responsible for the conflict and the consequences of the conflict.

I would like Oracle to read the old thread I gave above and make her comments,please...

Piratis,
We are not talking about ethnicity here...We are talking about the GCs and TCs having the same gene pool,which is different to their respective "motherlands"...This supports my argument that We are one people divided by two manmade factors,language and religion...Take it or leave it...

So we don't have the right to force our will onto you,undemocratically!!!
But, in your mind, you have the right to force your will onto us democratically,beause you happen to be in the majority...Is that it???
The tyranny of the majority...That is what you want to practice in Cyprus??? Without the slightest sensitivity to the feelings of 20% of Cypriots...So what has changed in the last 50 odd years,Piratis...???
What have the average GC learned from our bloody history??? A big nothing,it sems...You wanted Enosis with Greece then,you want the tyranny of the majority now...No wonder we are heading for Partition,on Turkey's terms...

This is a wake up call to everyone..Throw your ethnic chips off your shoulders,stop thinking that Cypriots are this or that before they are Cypriots...And lets talk about building a demcratic unitary country based on the rule of law,human rights and equal opportunity...As long as you keep putting Greek or Turkish before Cypriot that will remain a dream...A nice but unreachable dream....Becuase you,Piratis,and many others from both sides are not prepared to say "we stuffed up big time by insisting on our ethnicity,lets throw it where it belongs,the dustbin of history,and move on as one people one nation..."

[Paphitis]

BIR Writes:

We are not talking about ethnicity here...We are talking about the GCs and TCs having the same gene pool,which is different to their respective "motherlands"...This supports my argument that We are one people divided by two manmade factors,language and religion...Take it or leave it...

Have you not understood what Oracle has been trying to explain to you all along? There is no such thing as having a "gene people" amongst groups of individuals. Every human being has differing DNA which cannot be attributed to any particular race. It is environmental factors, religion, culture and social conditioning which segregate peoples into groups, and not their genes or DNA, which are unique in each individual and only have extremely miniscule similarities that are not enough to segregate people into Cypriot, Greek, Turk or any other ethnicity. Language, culture, and religion is what divides people into ethnic lines.

So we don't have the right to force our will onto you,undemocratically!!!
But, in your mind, you have the right to force your will onto us democratically,beause you happen to be in the majority...Is that it???

It is not a question of the majority forcing their will on the minority. Each person should only have EQUAL rights as individuals and citizens of the country. Any other complex arrangement based on non symmetrical rights which favour any minority can only lead to further problems in the future. There is only one arrangement that can work. A united Republic or a Federal arrangement where the land distribution is fairly proportioned, with a one man one vote democracy, and where all citizens have exactly the SAME rights. The GCs know this and it is this reason why complex formulas such as the Annan Plan will always be rejected.

The tyranny of the majority...That is what you want to practice in Cyprus??? Without the slightest sensitivity to the feelings of 20% of Cypriots...So what has changed in the last 50 odd years,Piratis...???

What a ridiculous notion. There is no Tyranny of the majority or minority when you have fair democratic representation and power as EQUAL citizens of 1 country. Our sensitivities to the 20% are demonstrated by the fact that we are willing to share a country with you, based on these fair democratic principles, as EQUAL individuals and nothing more.

What have the average GC learned from our bloody history??? A big nothing,it sems...You wanted Enosis with Greece then,you want the tyranny of the majority now...No wonder we are heading for Partition,on Turkey's terms...

The average GC has learnt that TCs such as yourself, do not want a fair solution to the Cyprus Problem, where all citizens are EQUAL. You guys want to negotiate a settlement which gives you extra rights at the expense of the rest. You are 18% which wants 100% power in your "Federated State", and a 50% say in Federal Government. You want to introduce Apartheid in Cyprus.

If we are headed for partition, then there is 1 thing you should remember. It will never be a legal or recognised partition, and the lands you stole wll still belong to us. As the spiritual owners of those lands, we will be back to claim them, whether that be within the next 10 years or beyond. GCs have seen all invaders come and go, and Turkey will be no different.

This is a wake up call to everyone..Throw your ethnic chips off your shoulders,stop thinking that Cypriots are this or that before they are Cypriots...

No WAY!

We are ethnic Greeks, and have been so for thousands of years. We will not change because you invaded our island in 1571.

What makes us Greek is our culture, heritage, religion and language. When our kind were building Salamina, you were still living in damn caves somewhere in Mongolia.

And lets talk about building a demcratic unitary country based on the rule of law,human rights and equal opportunity..

Fine, lets talk about this then.

Personally I can only accept a united Central Republic or a Federated Solution with an 82-18 split. Both systems need to have a democratic system where all citizens are Equal as Cypriot Nationals and nothing else. No special community status in the case of a Republic either.

Freedom of expression as to how people ethnically identify themselves is also paramount.

As long as you keep putting Greek or Turkish before Cypriot that will remain a dream...

Fine. It will remain a dream until the time comes when we manage to reclaim the lands you stole from us.

Becuase you,Piratis,and many others from both sides are not prepared to say "we stuffed up big time by insisting on our ethnicity,lets throw it where it belongs,the dustbin of history,and move on as one people one nation..."

We can only move forward as EQUAL citizens - Cypriot nationals - which have their equal rights that are protected by the constitution.

Ethnic identity will never be abandoned. It has never been abandoned in Australia. People here are either ethnically Anglo Saxon, Scottish, Irish, German, Italian, Greek etc etc. These people do not form an Australian ethnicity. First of all, the Irish and Italian Catholics are religiously incompatible with the Scots and Anglo Saxons. And yet, these different groups have united to form the Australian Nation.

They are EQUAL as Australian Citizens. The only people that have the right to call themselves ethnic Australians are the Aborigines, who are the spiritual owners and protectors of The Australian Continent.

Only with equality will the past mistakes never happen again. The Zurich Agreement was a plan forcibly imposed against our will and has been described as the most ridiculous and ludicrous constitution, which was unworkable, and led us up the garden path and present impasse.

[Piratis]

Bir, we don't want to impose anything on you. We are not the ones who brought you to Cyprus. You came to Cyprus in order to impose your rule on us and when you came Cyprus was already an island inhabited by a Greek majority.

Nothing has changed not only in the last 50 years, but not even in the last 437 years. Turks still think that they can impose their will by force, discarding the wishes of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

Democracy is the best system available. You can't cry "tyranny of the majority" whenever you disagree with a democratic decision. Democracy is all about majority rule + minority rights. We all have to respect both. I respect both majority rule (I wanted Papadopoulos as president, not Christofias, but I respect the democratic decision) and I also respect the minority rights of every minority. Why can't you do the same?

we stuffed up big time by insisting on our ethnicity,lets throw it where it belongs,the dustbin of history,and move on as one people one nation

Bir, do you know any country that part of the population speaks a different language and has a different religion, and this group of people are not considered to be of a different ethnicity? Give me an example.

The problem in Cyprus is not that we have multiple ethnicities, most modern countries are multi-ethnic. Removing the ethnicity of people is not something that can or should be done.

We have already made the compromise that Cyprus will not unite with Greece, and that Cyprus will be one independent nation. What you need to do now is to drop your demands for partition and your demands for unfair privileges granted to you by the invaders of Cyprus on our expesne.

Then we can have one united people and one united nation (multi-ethnic one, nothing wrong with this), with peace, democracy and human rights. Do you agree?

When you talk about "move on as one people one nation", do you accept that this means one person one vote without discriminating people based on their ethnic background? Similarly do you accept that there can not be unfair privileges given to a group of people simply because they happen to speak Turkish and be Muslim? ( I could understand something like affirmative action to guarantee that TCs are given their fair share and equal opportunities. But I can not accept that the 18% of TCs are given 30%, 40%, and 50% proportions. Can you?)

Do you agree that the 100s of thousands of people that make up this one nation can have different opinions, and the way for the nation to take decisions is not by each one of us trying to force his own way, but in a democratic way where the decisions of the majority are respected, as well as the rights of any minority, either ethnic one or the losers of an election?

Are you prepared to do what it takes to have this one nation Bir? Or the unfair privileges and powers granted to you by the invaders of Cyprus (the way they achieved divide and rule) are too important for you to give up? We gave up our right for union with Greece, so the very least you can do is to give up what you have no right for, and stop trying to gain on our loss, because in that way there is no way to achieve peace as such unfair gains on our loss can not be accepted or tolerated. I hope you can understand this.

[miltiades]

On a lighter note let me tell the 7 criteria that makes a Cypriot , if you score 5 or more you are indeed a Cypriot ,
3 -4 you are on the borderline but still considered Cypriot , under 3 you are a foreigner !!!

1. Love of snails cooked any way, ( can be substituted with pickled cucumbers )
2. Halloumi , olives and tomatoes , cooked any way.
3. Souvla , any meat and cooked properly.
4. Watermelon eaten cold with halloumi
5. Zivania ( can be substituted with Cypriot coffee )
6. Ameletita on the BBQ drenched in olive oil and parsley.(can also be substituted with pickled cucumbers ) ps.testies to Floda !!
7. You have a least 10000000 koumbarous if you dont you call everyone a koumbaro or gardash !!

Forget the DNA nonsense folks the proof of the pudding is the above