Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Recently CyBC television's Biz/Emeis programme interviewed various members of the refugee Beyzade family that once lived in Yersokipou. One of these people said that nowadays he visited Yeroskipou about once a week, and in response to the stock question about the reception he receives there, he followed the equally stock reply that he was warmly received with the astonishing statement that, “Anyway, I have a lot of relatives there.” He went on to qualify this statement by explaining that his father had several illegitimate children when he was in the village, and then to list several of his relatives who had married Greek Cypriots. He then proclaimed that, “There are as many Beyzade’s who have grown up as Greek Cypriots now living in the south as there are on this side.”

I am sure that this is a taboo subject in both communities, but all the evidence is that there has been plenty of mixing over the generations. Even the most casual observer notices the strong physical resemblance of Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.

Anybody who doesn’t believe me can go to the following page on CyBC’s website:

http://www.cybc.com.cy/index.php?option ... &Itemid=35

and click on the programme dated 09/12. It is in Turkish with Greek subtitles.

[Nikitas]

"That study failed to take into account convergent evolution where two disparate mutations tend towards the same, because of similar environmental pressure. "

Can these mutations and convergence occur in the space of the 300 years that the TCs have been in Cyprus? Three hundred years is something like 12 generations. Seems an awfully short time for such biological developments.

[Nikitas]

My god! Illegitimae children in Cyprus! How shocking! Everyone knows we are virtuous people, both TCs and GCs and we do not do this kind of stuff!

OK just kidding.

Having lived in London for 15 years I was fascinated to see how fast the imposed moral order of Cyprus is eroded. The values that stand up to such pressure are the least "moral" ones.

[Oracle]

Of course there are families with mixed parentage .... that is only right and normal. As you suggest you do not need DNA analysis to reveal such occurrences ... most people can trace their ancestry through records and events.

But to sequence one mutated gene and immediately group people into one section of the population (Greek) or other (Turk) and draw such conclusions about relatedness, is absurd and inaccurate (and dangerous) ... However that is precisely what was being done in the 80s-90's before whole genome sequencing became a reality and confirmed how different we are as individuals, more so than as groups, were differences are equalised out!

Hence why individual Human Rights (and one-man-one-vote) were way ahead of their time

[Oracle]

"That study failed to take into account convergent evolution where two disparate mutations tend towards the same, because of similar environmental pressure. "

Can these mutations and convergence occur in the space of the 300 years that the TCs have been in Cyprus? Three hundred years is something like 12 generations. Seems an awfully short time for such biological developments.

You can turn a fox into a dog (different species) in less than 20 generations

I don't know what the environmental selection pressure for thalassaemia is (for sickle cell anemia it's malaria), but environmental influences provide strong selective pressures.

How long have the African descended Americans been in the US? Already they are losing some of their original environmentally determined traits, like the levels of sickle cell anemia being greatly reduced.

[CBBB]

"That study failed to take into account convergent evolution where two disparate mutations tend towards the same, because of similar environmental pressure. "

Can these mutations and convergence occur in the space of the 300 years that the TCs have been in Cyprus? Three hundred years is something like 12 generations. Seems an awfully short time for such biological developments.

You can turn a fox into a dog (different species) in less than 20 generations

I don't know what the environmental selection pressure for thalassaemia is (for sickle cell anemia it's malaria), but environmental influences provide strong selective pressures.

How long have the African descended Americans been in the US? Already they are losing some of their original environmentally determined traits, like the levels of sickle cell anemia being greatly reduced.

Slightly off topic, but I thought that the environmental selection pressure for thalassaemia was also malaria. I am sure that there was an article in Phileleftheros this year quoting some study or other.

[Oracle]

"That study failed to take into account convergent evolution where two disparate mutations tend towards the same, because of similar environmental pressure. "

Can these mutations and convergence occur in the space of the 300 years that the TCs have been in Cyprus? Three hundred years is something like 12 generations. Seems an awfully short time for such biological developments.

You can turn a fox into a dog (different species) in less than 20 generations

I don't know what the environmental selection pressure for thalassaemia is (for sickle cell anemia it's malaria), but environmental influences provide strong selective pressures.

How long have the African descended Americans been in the US? Already they are losing some of their original environmentally determined traits, like the levels of sickle cell anemia being greatly reduced.

Slightly off topic, but I thought that the environmental selection pressure for thalassaemia was also malaria. I am sure that there was an article in Phileleftheros this year quoting some study or other.

You could be right CBBB ... that was my initial inkling as the most likely, but I don't have time to check medical texts just now, but will do later, unless you could do the honours (with a medical/scientific source, not journalistic ).

EDIT:

OK ... here is an initial one which suggests it confers an advantage against Malaria and Coronary Heart Disease ...

Karetti M, Yardumian A, Karetti D, Modell B.
George Marsh Sickle Cell and Thalassaemia Centre, St. Anne's Hospital, London NW3, UK.

This study explored the value of informing beta-thalassaemia carriers of the advantages, as well as the disadvantages of carrier status. Twenty-eight carriers of beta-thalassaemia were interviewed immediately after counselling, and again 2 weeks later. Both interviews included administration of a psychological scale (previously used for cystic fibrosis). Immediately after the first interview the intervention group (n = 18 ) were informed of the protective effect of the beta-thalassaemia trait against malaria and coronary heart disease. The control group (n = 10) was given the same information after the second interview. The effect of giving the positive information was assessed by comparing participants' scores at the first and second interview. Knowledge of carrier status aroused several negative feelings, including shock, sadness, and anger, but little feeling of stigmatization. Two weeks later, negative feelings were unchanged in the control group, but they were reduced in all members of the intervention group. All members of the intervention group considered it important to inform carriers of the positive aspects as well as the risks associated with carrier status. Carriers of recessive disorders with a known heterozygote advantage should be informed of the advantage. This information has now been incorporated into the comprehensive information system for hemoglobin disorders available at http://www.chime.ucl.ac.uk/ApoGI/.

PMID: 15345106 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Bananiot]

Malaria it was but Oracle, are you talking about selective evolution?

[Oracle]

Malaria it was but Oracle, are you talking about selective evolution?

More interesting than the Malaria association is the protection against Coronary Heart Disease. Perhaps the lower incidence of this condition in Mediterraneans, is due more to carrier status of Thalassaemia, and less to do with the diet

Food for thought ......

As far as evolution .... what types (other than selective) do you have in mind Bananiot? Convergent or divergent are both under selective pressure.

Cue for a Creationist ....

[zan]

Malaria it was but Oracle, are you talking about selective evolution?

More interesting than the Malaria association is the protection against Coronary Heart Disease. Perhaps the lower incidence of this condition in Mediterraneans, is due more to carrier status of Thalassaemia, and less to do with the diet

Food for thought ......

As far as evolution .... what types (other than selective) do you have in mind Bananiot? Convergent or divergent are both under selective pressure.

Cue for a Creationist ....

It CAN come down to a matter of choice...When Oracle was given the choice to put down her creed she chose Greek and Greece......Then on here she says Greek Cypriot......