Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

Ok, I;ve heard tc claims about 20,000 soldiers(!!!) and I've also heard everything about 1963...I have never heard of these 2 being put together in the same sentence though

I'm all ears (and eyes), can you show us something that says Greece brought 20,000 soldiers into Cyprus in 1963?

I think we're experiencing a new level of propaganda...One where we now mix and match previous propaganda to create even BIGGER propaganda.

Are you really claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly?

What happened to the 20,000 troops?

Have you not read what the man wrote? They legged it back to Greece in 1967. Just in time for the generals to take over and sort out the communists in Greece.

And yes I am claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly

A three yeal might believe your claims but not those who suffered and lived to tell the tale.

What happened to your 20,000 troops?? Where they not 20,000 troops? where they 9,000 troops? did they not take part in the inter communal fighting?

Thats almost as bad as me saying that Turkey massacred us with 40,000 troops.....Oh Wait! They DID massacre us with 40,000 troops!

[Kifeas]

might do

To those going to the meeting tonight, I would kindly ask to place the following question(s,) and then let us know what answers you will get.

Kemalism is a totalitarian ideology, in the sense that it places the state in the center of everything, and the citizens (people) in the role of serving its interests (etatism=statism,) instead of the other way around, i.e. the state being in the service of its citizens, their wellbeing and development; allowing in this way the development and maintenance of a corporatist and a militaristic state of affairs and practices, besides the 3rd world “cult of personality” practice around Ataturk’s name and image.

Furthermore, kemalism is also a Turkish nationalistic ideology, evolving around the doctrine “one state, one language, one nation, one flag,” allowing in this way the suppression and violation of fundamental cultural rights of the country’s various ethnic and religious groups such as Kurds, Alevies, etc.

In view of the above, to what extent such an ideology is compatible with modern EU democratic and multicultural practices?

And furthermore, to what extent such an ideology is compatible with a BBF reunified Cyprus, at a constituent state level, in view of the fact that the two states will have to accommodate citizens from both Cypriot communities?

PS: Kemalism was an ideology the TCs tried and succeeded to import in the Annan plan, at the level of the TC constituent state.

So none of you went there tonight? You just let Niyazi Kizilyurek alone to have a free ride in promoting his pro-kemalism propaganda among the GCs, without anyone going there to challenge him? How sad!

[Get Real!]

Are you really claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly?

It goes to show that you don't belong in the CyProb because all you ever manage is to spread misinformation. Have you no shame?

The Greek contingent you mention arrived on Cyprus early in 1964 but were soon replaced by a UN force of 6,500 troops (UNFICYP) in May 1964, as a result of UN resolution 186 (March 1964), adopted due to the Kofinou incidents (see link below) where TCs decided to hijack the Nicosia-Limassol highway, and even managed to kill a couple of UN personnel during one of those incidents. The end result was around 25 TCs dead and 17 GCs (or was it Greek soldiers) dead.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr186.htm

[repulsewarrior]

...so if we are looking to the future, we have no identity to our ethnicity, and as nationalities we are trivializing the importance in having a State. Our identity is to geography; as this islands's dwellers.

Our minority is the people who are here living amongst us but not attached to the physical entity which is made up of the nature which surrounds us. As a majority, we are neither "Greeks" or "Turks" not even "Cypriots", but as this land's stewards Cypriots, because we choose to care for the Heritance that will survive beyond our own personal identites and which has its roots right to the Neolithic Age.

[Tim Drayton]

Just hoping TİM DRAYTON will translate below article from Niyazi Kızılyürek .

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=17

I have read the above article which is a good summary of the Turkish Cypriot left's view of Tassos Papadopoulos. I don't think it says a great deal that is new or can contribute to the debate about the future of Cyprus. However, at the risk of offending Halil, I cannot resist posting my translation of Şener Levent's thoughts in connection with Papadopoulos' funeral in yesterday's Afrika newspaper. I don't know how many Turkish Cypriots he speaks for, but this man is certainly able to think out of the box, and is not afraid of sticking his neck out and making his views known.

A FUNERAL AND COMING TO TERMS WITH HISTORY

No Turkish Cypriot official attended Tassos Papadopoulos’ funeral.
Pity.
If only they had.
Surely this would not have been detrimental to the peace and solution we are trying to achieve on the island.
Would this have harmed the ongoing bilateral negotiations?
Would this have sown further seeds of hatred between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots?
I don’t think so at all.
This funeral could only have made a serious contribution to bringing both sides together.
It could have been a political symbol of a historic reconciliation on the island.
If we are now writing history books purged of malice and hatred and there is a need for us to pardon one another, we needed to be capable of doing this and attending the funeral.

***

I do not think that the Turkish Cypriot community has a very close knowledge of Tassos Papadopoulos.
In fact, for precisely this reason, many of them were astonished at that speech made by Christofias at the funeral.
Because they were unaware that Papadopoulos fought against the junta and EOKA-B.
Everybody thought that he was one of the 1974 fascist coupists.
They couldn’t believe their ears when they heard that he resisted the junta.
Actually, when we compare him with our string of past leaders, it appears that an injustice has been done to Papadopoulos.
Turkish Cypriot leaders have never joined the ranks of opposition to fascist juntas in Turkey.
They have always walked on their coat-tails.
They tried to emulate in Cyprus what the latter did in Turkey.
In 1971 and 1980 there were two massive fascist coups in Turkey.
Torture, executions … one thing after another.
They turned the whole country into hell.
The Turkish Cypriot leadership never parted ways with these coupists.
They kept up their ties with them.
While they were crushing patriots in Turkey, those in Cyprus managed to soil their own records.

***

In spite of his attributes that appear negative to me, the aspect that I find most positive about Makarios was his rebellion against the Greek junta.
Certainly this rebellion ended in tragedy for Cyprus, but it did win real independence and freedom from Greece for Greek Cypriots.
It placed a huge full stop against policies dictated from Athens.
Nobody can claim that current Greek Cypriot policies are imposed by Greece.
And nobody can say the same things that are said with respect to the Turkish side.
They cannot say, “Greece determines the results of elections in the south.”
Nor can they say, “The Greek Ambassador runs the Republic of Cyprus like a provincial governor.”
Talat may not respond to Christofias’ taunt, “Come back after you have been weaned” in the same terms.

***

Our right-wingers know Tassos Papadopoulos as one of the architects of the Akritas Plan.
That is why they regard him as an “enemy”.
They equate him with Polykarpos Georgadjis.
Our left-wingers and younger generation rate him with reference to the Annan Plan.
I mean, he said a tearful ‘no’ to the plan, that’s why everyone became his enemy.
If he earned the hatred of everyone, that’s why.
However, if he had said ‘yes’ to the plan, he would have been a hero.
Nobody would have referred to him as the architect of the Akritas Plan.
In my view, Papdopoulos’ most serious political mistake was the consent that he gave in New York to submitting the Annan Plan to a referendum in Cyprus.
In this regard, at the very least he could have objected with reference to the population structure in the north.
He could even have said, “Can there be such a thing as a referendum in an occupied territory?”
Unfortunately Christofias, who is now engaged in negotiations with Talat, is falling into this same huge trap.
He is giving his approval to a referendum that does not warrant approval.

***

Rauf Denktash, when Georgadjis was shot dead, forgot that the latter was Akritas and remembered him with the words, “He was a good and mature statesman.”
However, he did not display the same kind of delicacy towards Tassos Papadopoulos.
He did not attend the funeral of Osman Örek, former Republic of Cyprus minister of defence. When asked, “Why did you not attend?” he replied as follows:
“I do not attend the funerals of those I loved.”
Could this, then, be the reason why he did not attend Papadopoulos’ funeral?

[DT.]

Excellent article by Levent once more.

[denizaksulu]

May God protect him.........even better still, for his own sake, I hope he wears a kevlar suit.

He is a brave man.

[BirKibrisli]

So,looking at the past we see nothing which will help us today regarding our Cypriot identity...Is that what Kizilyurek is saying??? We are neither "two separate people" nor one "single people"...hmmmmmm....

According to Kizilyurek :"A people is a community that dwells within the same state, is connected by ties of citizenship to that state, has a legislative capacity and consists of participating citizens who share a common public space." But there was a time, during 1960-1963,when we were one people, fulfilling all the above criteria...We were just too stupid to appreciate what we had...WE tore one people up and created two "half" peoples...And we are still stupid enough not to realise that unless we turn the clock back,and return to the 1960 Constitution and the Republic which made us one people,one nation of Cypriots,we are condemned to Partition...

[Oracle]

Great tribute by Levent, Tim ... and my respect for him has climbed enormously. I could find only one point I would dissent with him.

[miltiades]

So,looking at the past we see nothing which will help us today regarding our Cypriot identity...Is that what Kizilyurek is saying??? We are neither "two separate people" nor one "single people"...hmmmmmm....

According to Kizilyurek :"A people is a community that dwells within the same state, is connected by ties of citizenship to that state, has a legislative capacity and consists of participating citizens who share a common public space." But there was a time, during 1960-1963,when we were one people, fulfilling all the above criteria...We were just too stupid to appreciate what we had...WE tore one people up and created two "half" peoples...And we are still stupid enough not to realise that unless we turn the clock back,and return to the 1960 Constitution and the Republic which made us one people,one nation of Cypriots,we are condemned to Partition...

Don't lose hope my dear friend , here in the UK I talk to T/Cs and G/Cs mostly daily and all express the same sentiments as you and I and many more not forgetting our friend Deniz and so many more. We are one people , divided at the moment , but the division will not last .
Your Cyprus is also mine and mine is also yours together as Cypriots first we shall overcome .