Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Kemalism

Atatürk's principles can be summed up in six fundamentals called "Six Arrows":

Republicanism:
The Kemalist reforms represent a political revolution; a change from the multinational Ottoman Empire to the establishment of the nation state of Turkey and the realization of national identity of modern Turkey. Kemalism only recognizes a Republican regime for Turkey. Kemalism believes that it is only the republican regime which can best represent the wishes of the people.

Populism:
The Kemalist revolution was also a social revolution in term of its content and goals. This was a revolution led by an elite with an orientation towards the people in general. The Kemalist reforms brought about a revolutionary change in the status of women through the adoption of Western codes of law in Turkey, in particular the Swiss Civil Code.

Moreover, women received the right to vote in 1934. Atatürk stated on a number of occasions that the true rulers of Turkey were the peasants. This was actually a goal rather than a reality in Turkey. In fact, in the official explanation given to the principle of populism it was stated that Kemalism was against class privileges and class distinctions and it recognized no individual, no family, no class and no organization as being above others. Kemalist ideology was, in fact, based on supreme value of Turkish citizenship. A sense of pride associated with this citizenship would give the needed psychological spur to the people to make them work harder and to achieve a sense of unity and national identity.

Secularism:
Kemalist secularism did not merely mean separation of state and religion, but also the separation of religion from educational, cultural and legal affairs. It meant independence of thought and independence of institutions from the dominance of religious thinking and religious institutions. Thus, the Kemalist revolution was also a secularist revolution. Many Kemalist reforms were made to bring about secularism, and others were realized because secularism had been achieved.

The Kemalist principle of secularism did not advocate atheism. It was not an anti-God principle. It was a rationalist, anti-clerical secularism. The Kemalist principle of secularism was not against an enlightened Islam, but against an Islam which was opposed to modernization.

Reformism:
One of the most important principles that Atatürk formulated was the principle of reformism or revolutionism. This principle meant that Turkey made reforms and that the country replaced traditional institutions with modern institutions. It meant that traditional concepts were eliminated and modern concepts were adopted. The principle of reformism went beyond the recognition of the reforms which were made.

Nationalism:
The Kemalist revolution was also a nationalist revolution. Kemalist nationalism was not racist. It was meant to preserve the independence of the Republic of Turkey and also to help the Republic's political development. It was a nationalism which respected the right to independence of all other nations. It was a nationalism with a social content. It was not only anti-imperialist, but it was also against the rule of a dynasty or of any particular social class over Turkish society. Kemalist nationalism believes in the principle that the Turkish state is an indivisible whole comprising its territory and people.

Statism:
Kemal Atatürk made clear in his statements and policies that Turkey's complete modernization was very much dependent on economic and technological development. The principle of statism was interpreted to mean that the state was to regulate the country's general economic activity and the state was to engage in areas where private enterprise was not willing to do so, or where private enterprise had proved to be inadequate, or if national interest required it. In the application of the principle of statism, however, the state emerged not only as the principle source of economic activity but also as the owner of the major industries of the country.

[Kifeas]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

[doesntmatter]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

[DT.]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

Ok, I;ve heard tc claims about 20,000 soldiers(!!!) and I've also heard everything about 1963...I have never heard of these 2 being put together in the same sentence though

I'm all ears (and eyes), can you show us something that says Greece brought 20,000 soldiers into Cyprus in 1963?

I think we're experiencing a new level of propaganda...One where we now mix and match previous propaganda to create even BIGGER propaganda.

[Kifeas]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

First of all it was not 20,000 but a division of 9,000 men (3 regiments,) it was in 1963 but in 1964 and left back to Greece in 1967, and it was not to suppress TCs (GCs alone would have been more than enough if that was the purpose,) but to help in the defense of Cyprus from the Turkish threads for an invasion. Greek troops during that period never got involved in anything relating with the TCs, but only the GC NG did.

Secondly, what relation does your post have to do with what we have been talking about in this thread? As far as I see, absolutely none. We talk about apples, and you come into it and start talking about potatoes.

[Tim Drayton]

Tim, Niazi will speak on Kemalism tonight in Nicosia. Will you be there?

Actually, I am in Nicosia just now, in an Internet cafe surrounded by loads of Kurdish ten year olds (no prızes for guessıng which side of the divide I am on!).
I hadn't heard about this talk - but remember den xero Ellenika.

[doesntmatter]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

First of all it was not 20,000 but a division of 9,000 men (3 regiments,) it was in 1963 but in 1964 and left back to Greece in 1967, and it was not to suppress TCs (GCs alone would have been more than enough if that was the purpose,) but to help in the defense of Cyprus from the Turkish threads for an invasion. Greek troops during that period never got involved in anything relating with the TCs, but only the GC NG did.

9,000 or 20,000, what difference does it make? The fact is that Greece sent it troops to guard the GCs while they massacred the TCs. If the Greek soldiers took part in the massacre or not is irrelevant, they stood by and let the GCs get on with their job to get the much desired enosis by both the GCs and Greece.

As a guarantor power it was Grece's duty to stop the massacre and restore the country's constitution but as Greece was after enosis it had no intentions of stopping the massacres and oppression of the TCs.

Even, as you claim, if the Greek soldiers did not actively take part in the massacres they allowed it o go on and that is only because they wanted to help.

The fact remains that Greece invaded Cyprus to help the GCs to oppress and massacre the TCs who were against enosis.

Secondly, what relation does your post have to do with what we have been talking about in this thread? As far as I see, absolutely none. We talk about apples, and you come into it and start talking about potatoes.

I'm sorry, did I spoil your propaganda?

You talk about everything, except democracy, and complain about Turkey's intervention in 1974 but you want to complain when I bring up the facts about 1963?

This thread is about the two communities in Cyprus and is in the "Cyprus problem" section, if you want to talk about "apples" only I can only suggest that you start a thread about "apples" or accept that I will speak about "potatoes" if you speak about "tomatoes" in this thread.

[doesntmatter]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

Ok, I;ve heard tc claims about 20,000 soldiers(!!!) and I've also heard everything about 1963...I have never heard of these 2 being put together in the same sentence though

I'm all ears (and eyes), can you show us something that says Greece brought 20,000 soldiers into Cyprus in 1963?

I think we're experiencing a new level of propaganda...One where we now mix and match previous propaganda to create even BIGGER propaganda.

Are you really claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly?

[DT.]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

Ok, I;ve heard tc claims about 20,000 soldiers(!!!) and I've also heard everything about 1963...I have never heard of these 2 being put together in the same sentence though

I'm all ears (and eyes), can you show us something that says Greece brought 20,000 soldiers into Cyprus in 1963?

I think we're experiencing a new level of propaganda...One where we now mix and match previous propaganda to create even BIGGER propaganda.

Are you really claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly?

What happened to the 20,000 troops?

And yes I am claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly

[doesntmatter]

Halil, an ideology is not only the flowery description one makes of it, but also and more importantly, the way it ended been practiced diachronically.

In that sense, one may present a text-book version of communism, that if you read it you will believe this is the perfect system. However, what people understand when one refers to communism, is also and more importantly the totalitarian regimes observed in the countries in which it was practiced.

Furthermore, Kemalism is an ideology on how to govern and regulate a country and its society. Such ideologies, there are many in this world, i.e. socialism, communism, liberalism, neo-liberalism, political-Islamism, fascism, Maoism, etc, etc. These are all political ideologies and systems, just like Kemalism. An ideology become a totalitarian one, from the moment it imposes and enforces through its armed forces and constitution, its monopolistic status to a country, disallowing in this way other ideologies to promote their case and allow the people to democratically decide which one is best for their country. Kemalism is one such (totalitarian) ideology.

Ok, so what would you the action of Greece sending 20,000 soldiers in 1963 to help the GCs oppress the TCs "minority" and force them to accept enosis? Democracy?

Ok, I;ve heard tc claims about 20,000 soldiers(!!!) and I've also heard everything about 1963...I have never heard of these 2 being put together in the same sentence though

I'm all ears (and eyes), can you show us something that says Greece brought 20,000 soldiers into Cyprus in 1963?

I think we're experiencing a new level of propaganda...One where we now mix and match previous propaganda to create even BIGGER propaganda.

Are you really claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly?

What happened to the 20,000 troops?

Have you not read what the man wrote? They legged it back to Greece in 1967. Just in time for the generals to take over and sort out the communists in Greece.

And yes I am claiming that there were no Greek soldiers in Cyprus in 1963 who were helping the GCs to massacre the TCs for enosis that Greece wanted so badly

A three yeal might believe your claims but not those who suffered and lived to tell the tale.