Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

CYPRUS should could have easily have been snatched back by its FORMER Proprietor = Turkey!

Britain Annexed Cyprus from the Ottoman Empire in 1878.

Turkey, like China, should have hit its fist on the table the same as China did to Britain over Hong Kong and the Island would have been returned to its owners of over 400 years prior to 1878!

If it wasn't for the 1960 Constitution, the Greek Cypriots would have been a minority of The Republic of Turkey if Turkey had acted like China did over Hong Kong - Get it!

Count yourselves lucky, as it was TURKEY who made the mistake, and not the Greek Cypriots, or should I say, the Greek Cyprus island minority population of Turkey.

You see Jerry, it all depends which angle you look at it from - that's why Agreed Partition is the only way out. It's a Never Ending Argument.

Absolute rubbish! Your lack of knowledge fails you again.

Britain gained control of Cyprus in 1878 as a result of an agreement with the Ottomans in return for support in the Balkans. This story is referred to as the “Cyprus Convention”. Anyway, Cyprus was annexed in 1914 when Turkey joined forces with Germany in WWI. The Republic of Turkey did not even exist until 1922!

Do you now realize why it's important to have as near a perfect knowledge of historical facts as possible BEFORE we get involved in political discussions?

Get Real, do you mean to say that had the UK did not make an agreement with the ottomans, and had it did not annex Cyprus, that Turkey would indeed have had legitimate claims over Cyprus?

As you know the Ottoman Empire was defeated and dismantled and forced to sign Cyprus and many other areas away in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne which enabled the birth of the Republic of Turkey, which no longer had any rights over Cyprus.

I was trying to assist “H” to start using common sense by getting her facts right first in which case she would’ve then seen her folly…

Do you mean to say that had the Ottoman Empire not been dissolved, it would have had legitimate rights over Cyprus, in the case in which Britain wouldn’t have annexed it?

[Get Real!]

CYPRUS should could have easily have been snatched back by its FORMER Proprietor = Turkey!

Britain Annexed Cyprus from the Ottoman Empire in 1878.

Turkey, like China, should have hit its fist on the table the same as China did to Britain over Hong Kong and the Island would have been returned to its owners of over 400 years prior to 1878!

If it wasn't for the 1960 Constitution, the Greek Cypriots would have been a minority of The Republic of Turkey if Turkey had acted like China did over Hong Kong - Get it!

Count yourselves lucky, as it was TURKEY who made the mistake, and not the Greek Cypriots, or should I say, the Greek Cyprus island minority population of Turkey.

You see Jerry, it all depends which angle you look at it from - that's why Agreed Partition is the only way out. It's a Never Ending Argument.

Absolute rubbish! Your lack of knowledge fails you again.

Britain gained control of Cyprus in 1878 as a result of an agreement with the Ottomans in return for support in the Balkans. This story is referred to as the “Cyprus Convention”. Anyway, Cyprus was annexed in 1914 when Turkey joined forces with Germany in WWI. The Republic of Turkey did not even exist until 1922!

Do you now realize why it's important to have as near a perfect knowledge of historical facts as possible BEFORE we get involved in political discussions?

Get Real, do you mean to say that had the UK did not make an agreement with the ottomans, and had it did not annex Cyprus, that Turkey would indeed have had legitimate claims over Cyprus?

As you know the Ottoman Empire was defeated and dismantled and forced to sign Cyprus and many other areas away in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne which enabled the birth of the Republic of Turkey, which no longer had any rights over Cyprus.

I was trying to assist “H” to start using common sense by getting her facts right first in which case she would’ve then seen her folly…

Do you mean to say that had the Ottoman Empire not been dissolved, it would have had legitimate rights over Cyprus, in the case in which Britain wouldn’t have annexed it?

Unfortunately, the moral reasons against invasions & occupations are insufficient for some people out there to acknowledge and condemn them, so I always aim to explain the technical reasons instead, and find that people respond more positively to this approach.

[utu]

Unfortunately, the moral reasons against invasions & occupations are insufficient for some people out there to acknowledge and condemn them, so I always aim to explain the technical reasons instead, and find that people respond more positively to this approach.

Tell that to folk like Expatkiwi and Zan, GR. They might disagree with you there...

[Get Real!]

Unfortunately, the moral reasons against invasions & occupations are insufficient for some people out there to acknowledge and condemn them, so I always aim to explain the technical reasons instead, and find that people respond more positively to this approach.

Tell that to folk like Expatkiwi and Zan, GR. They might disagree with you there...

Expat received his explanations too...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=30

...as for Zan I've lost count how many times.

[utu]

Unfortunately, the moral reasons against invasions & occupations are insufficient for some people out there to acknowledge and condemn them, so I always aim to explain the technical reasons instead, and find that people respond more positively to this approach.

Tell that to folk like Expatkiwi and Zan, GR. They might disagree with you there...

Expat received his explanations too...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=30

...as for Zan I've lost count how many times.

No offense, GR, but you did threaten Expatkiwi, plus you have gone out of your way to ridicule and discredit him. He as much said that you were simply incapable of having a dispassionate debate with. Judging from the various posts you have made, there is a degree of truth to that. In my e-mail communications with him, he has spoken about an "illogical Greek antipathy to dissenting opinions". Don't you think your responses to him don't do anything more than reinforce that view?

[Viewpoint]

DT wrote:

I have no issues if you see the occupation as an invite, a party or even a wake. I would like to know why you do not see it as illegal though.

Well?

I, personally, DT do not currently see Turkey's practical involvement (whether military, economic or political) as illegal due to a lack of a comprehensive solution on the island of Cyprus. Turkey has reiterated, many times in the past, of its commitment in taking a back seat in the event of a solution to the Cyprus problem.

And, I also agree with Turkey on this point.

Why? Because we (Turkish Cypriots) are presently isolated, almost in every way - according to our outlook. If the Greek Cypriots were sincere in their desire for a solution, seriously, northern Cyprus would be free to trade internationally as a separate "Cypriot" entity and the Turkish Cypriots would have perhaps believed in the entire idea of "Unification" according to D.Christofias' opening statement back in July 2008.

But, unfortunately, the message from the GC side since 1974 has been based on its fierce and determined ideology as opposed to perhaps a more practical approach.

Turkey has only responded to the "needs" of the Turkish Cypriot people; gas, electricity, water, medicine, baby food, to purchase goods and etc, etc. I blame the Greek Cypriots for the present mess we are in, and not Turkey. I do know one thing for sure, and that is if the isolation continues any much longer it will be the end of any kind of reconciliation between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots, for at least a few decades.

It's the building of confidence that the everyday person lives by, and the GC lead administration has certainly not made the Turkish Cypriots feel welcome, in any way - especially with their military build up, isolation and embargoes from ALL corners. Think about the stages the U.S, and the U.K as well for that matter, have gone through over the decades to comfort and embrace all of its ethnic minorities (Practically, and not by just the passing of written laws). Think about what the Black-Americans or the Greek or Turkish "British" Citizens of the UK can DO TODAY, but couldn't do as many years ago due to the racist outlook of those particular countries (its people and government!) back in the day (1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s and even the 1990s). Do you believe that Obama could ever have been allowed to become the U.S President in let's say 1979 - no way in hell. This is where the GCs are seriously jumping the gun with their claims of being trust worthy in the face of Turkish Cypriot at home and abroad, and I am certain the UK knows that unification in Cyprus today is impossible due to those exactly reasons; lack of confidence, lack of preparation, lack of vision and etc, so on so forth.

However, and perhaps more importantly, the Dragging of the Cyprus issue. If the isolation was removed 20 years ago and we were allowed to live as perhaps the GC Controlled Republic of Cyprus and let's say the Turkish Cypriot Federated State of Northern Cyprus (as it was from 1975 to 1983), but legally according to the Greek Cypriot view and wasn't contested via the UN, what situation do YOU think we'd be in today?

If you ask me, I would probably say that a unification of Cyprus would probably have been possible due to the many years of preparation as I've mentioned previously. But, under the current political, economic and social climate (there differences), in my opinion, there's just no chance in hell that unification as Chrsitofias believes is possible.

That is why I strongly believe in "Agreed Partition", it truly appears to be the only way out. Unless, the GCs suddenly see the light and completely remove the isolation on Northern Cyprus very soon![/u]

Excellent post MrH.

[Viewpoint]

Jerry,

Try this as an analogy - You made 200,000 of us homeless and yet you still expect us to help feed you.

Jerry, sorry mate but I just had to comment on your posting above. WE made 200'000 of your people homeless!!!! Are you insane? We, Turkish Cypriots did absolutely Jack,.....do still not understand the DIFFERENCE between Turks from Turkey and "Turkish Cypriots". We, Turkish Cypriots are a different nation/country/state. Are you addressing VP the Turkish Cypriot?

Was it not the Greek Cypriots in the 1960s who demanded 10-additional changes to the original Cyprus constitution, which forcefully lead our TC leader to leave his position of Vice President due to a sudden hostile GC reaction to our rejection of those proposed changes? Which, lead to eventual inter-communal fighting between 1963-4 - defused only after Turkey threatened intervention, which then lead to the ultra-nationalist GC EOKA-B terrorist group inviting the Coupists from Greece to invade the island on 15th of July 1974 and (I'll be light on this) "Expel" all Turkish Cypriots from the island of Cyprus, which ultimately lead to Turkey having to intervene in order to restore the original constitution, but remained under the desperate call of the Turkish Cypriots due to a serious lack of confidence - after finding the remains of dead women and children buried on the island?

Of course you deny this - as expected, but please, please don't start playing that old record about 200'000 GCs forced out of their homes, etc, etc, when it was the GC lead politicians and Terrorists groups from 1963 who started the damn problem - why don't you please grow up and admit the truth.

Even your President Christofias recently apologised for the events of 1963-64. At least admit to what your elected President of the GC Controlled ROC has admitted to.

This is why "Agreed" or perhaps "Forced" Partition is the best way forward as there's just no convincing the blind to see the light on this issue.

Happy Christmas Jerry!

Another great post couldn't have said it better myself.

[Viewpoint]

What made Turkey a "proprietor" of Cyprus, MrH-kid? The fact that it was once occupied by the ottomans! Listen illiterate little kid, who the proprietor of a place is, is no one else other than the indigenous people that inhabit it, and not whoever more powerful once invaded and occupied it! You indeed have a nerve, and I feel sorry for those (including myself) that consider replying to your inconsiderate, provocative and many times insulting posts in this forum. I would like to suggest to them to ignore you, since there is no way they will ever be able to make sense with such a brainwashed and one-side little fanatic. If you want to participate in a forum like this, first go and open at least one single neutral book on Cyprus, outside all the rubbish you have been coughed to read from ATCA website and the likes of it. Once you become able to see the Cyprus issue in a slightly more round and balanced way, instead of the mono-dimensional one you currently do, we may consider taking you any more seriously than we currently do.

Have you ever considered you are the brainwashed person? but how would you know your brainwashed.

[utu]

What made Turkey a "proprietor" of Cyprus, MrH-kid? The fact that it was once occupied by the ottomans! Listen illiterate little kid, who the proprietor of a place is, is no one else other than the indigenous people that inhabit it, and not whoever more powerful once invaded and occupied it! You indeed have a nerve, and I feel sorry for those (including myself) that consider replying to your inconsiderate, provocative and many times insulting posts in this forum. I would like to suggest to them to ignore you, since there is no way they will ever be able to make sense with such a brainwashed and one-side little fanatic. If you want to participate in a forum like this, first go and open at least one single neutral book on Cyprus, outside all the rubbish you have been coughed to read from ATCA website and the likes of it. Once you become able to see the Cyprus issue in a slightly more round and balanced way, instead of the mono-dimensional one you currently do, we may consider taking you any more seriously than we currently do.

Have you ever considered you are the brainwashed person? but how would you know your brainwashed.

You could also ask yourself if you have been brainwashed as well, Viewpoint... Education in both parts of Cyprus do tend to influence students to see the same things differently...

[Get Real!]

Unfortunately, the moral reasons against invasions & occupations are insufficient for some people out there to acknowledge and condemn them, so I always aim to explain the technical reasons instead, and find that people respond more positively to this approach.

Tell that to folk like Expatkiwi and Zan, GR. They might disagree with you there...

Expat received his explanations too...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=30

...as for Zan I've lost count how many times.

No offense, GR, but you did threaten Expatkiwi, plus you have gone out of your way to ridicule and discredit him. He as much said that you were simply incapable of having a dispassionate debate with. Judging from the various posts you have made, there is a degree of truth to that. In my e-mail communications with him, he has spoken about an "illogical Greek antipathy to dissenting opinions". Don't you think your responses to him don't do anything more than reinforce that view?

Read the thread when you've got the time and find out why...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13280