Cyprus-Forum.com

[utu]

When I was reading the plight of that pro-recognition individual Expatkiwi/Dean, on the ATCA forum, he actually raised a very good point: What are the ulterior motives of Turkey on the north of Cyprus? Expatkiwi got slammed by his ATCA colleagues because he supported the north as a purely independent country... WITHOUT Turkish control or influence on the north's administration, people, or economy. He pointed out - rightly - that the current Turkish political, economic, and military control over the north has made the north nothing more than a dependency and colony of Turkey, despite the claims of independence (based on the text of the north's 1983 UDI). That leads me to wonder this: what would have happened to the north had that UDI been widely recognized? There are only three options that I can see:

1. Turkey lets the north be completely sovereign by distancing itself from their affairs and allowing the north to make its own decisions.

2. Turkey eventually annexes the north using the Hatay precedent.

3. Turkey uses treaties and other agreements in order to retain a disproportionate influence on the north's administration, thus making it a perpetual puppet state.

The people who support partition should have a careful think as to Turkey's ultimate intentions because Turkey's own interests will always come first with Ankara. And since - unlike Expatkiwi - I don't believe that the north - if it ever was internationally recognized - would be an economically viable entity, then the first option should not be seriously entertained.... unless Turkey's intention is to let the north go its own way and end up bankrupt, and then they come back in to 'pick up the pieces'. Given the strategic value of Cyprus in the eastern Mediterranian and the Near East, Turkey is not likely to just let the north go its own way... You TC's and pro-recognition supporters may not like Greece or the RoCy government very much, but being too trusting on Turkey is not likely to make things any better either...

[zan]

When I was reading the plight of that pro-recognition individual Expatkiwi/Dean, on the ATCA forum, he actually raised a very good point: What are the ulterior motives of Turkey on the north of Cyprus? Expatkiwi got slammed by his ATCA colleagues because he supported the north as a purely independent country... WITHOUT Turkish control or influence on the north's administration, people, or economy. He pointed out - rightly - that the current Turkish political, economic, and military control over the north has made the north nothing more than a dependency and colony of Turkey, despite the claims of independence (based on the text of the north's 1983 UDI). That leads me to wonder this: what would have happened to the north had that UDI been widely recognized? There are only three options that I can see:

1. Turkey lets the north be completely sovereign by distancing itself from their affairs and allowing the north to make its own decisions.

2. Turkey eventually annexes the north using the Hatay precedent.

3. Turkey uses treaties and other agreements in order to retain a disproportionate influence on the north's administration, thus making it a perpetual puppet state.

The people who support partition should have a careful think as to Turkey's ultimate intentions because Turkey's own interests will always come first with Ankara. And since - unlike Expatkiwi - I don't believe that the north - if it ever was internationally recognized - would be an economically viable entity, then the first option should not be seriously entertained.... unless Turkey's intention is to let the north go its own way and end up bankrupt, and then they come back in to 'pick up the pieces'. Given the strategic value of Cyprus in the eastern Mediterranian and the Near East, Turkey is not likely to just let the north go its own way... You TC's and pro-recognition supporters may not like Greece or the RoCy government very much, but being too trusting on Turkey is not likely to make things any better either...

If we supplied just olive oil to the 80,000,000 + Turks utu we could all live like kings.......

What you seem to ignore time and time again is that we are TURKISH CYPRIOT.......The GCs want us to forget that.....Why the hell should I rip up part of my makeup and throw away.......How about they throw out all their priests and start a new religion and culture so that we can REALLY start again.........You should really try to find some relevance to my Turkish side in the "RoC" and make me an offer to accept that. What we have found whilst waiting for the GCs to come to their senses is that we actually have a lot more in common with Turks than with the GCs......Our culture, our music, our religion and so on. So please stop these little horror stories designed to scare the children......We either have a partnership in Cyprus where our rights are respected along with our culture and are represented as we should be in all aspects of Cyprus life or we carry on as we are........

[utu]

Zan,

Is Turkey going to allow you to continue "living the way you are"? That's the question.

[zan]

Zan,

Is Turkey going to allow you to continue "living the way you are"? That's the question.

Did you not get the gist of what I was saying utu......It is easier for us to stay as Turks rather than to become Greek......That is the bottom line....

[utu]

Zan,

Let me get this straight: you'd rather be ruled by a Turk, even if that Turk was a tyrant? I thought that the argument was about people living in peace on Cyprus.

[zan]

Zan,

Let me get this straight: you'd rather be ruled by a Turk, even if that Turk was a tyrant? I thought that the argument was about people living in peace on Cyprus.

If you want to put such a harsh word into the fray then all I can say is we have a choice of tyrants.......Your word not mine!!!


Are you also saying that Greece and the "RoC" did not and are still behaving tyrannically??? If you are then I beg to differ..

[utu]

Okay, Zan. Given the historical emnities, plus the intercommunal violence, I can see that there is not much in the way of trust regarding the Greek Cypriots and the intenrationally recognized Cypriot government. However, since Cyprus is a memeber of the EU, they are bound to observe the treaties on human rights. That makes things better, doesn't it?

[zan]

Okay, Zan. Given the historical emnities, plus the intercommunal violence, I can see that there is not much in the way of trust regarding the Greek Cypriots and the intenrationally recognized Cypriot government. However, since Cyprus is a memeber of the EU, they are bound to observe the treaties on human rights. That makes things better, doesn't it?

Do those human rights force the "RoC" to give me my rights back under the Zurich agreement...NO!

Do I want to disappear from view and just become another Greek island..NO

WEe are fighting as a people utu and not as individuals. That is a whole different ball game.......

[Kifeas]

Okay, Zan. Given the historical emnities, plus the intercommunal violence, I can see that there is not much in the way of trust regarding the Greek Cypriots and the intenrationally recognized Cypriot government. However, since Cyprus is a memeber of the EU, they are bound to observe the treaties on human rights. That makes things better, doesn't it?

Utu, why don't you ask Zan if he would still have supported partition so fervently, had Turkey occupied only 18% or less of the island, instead of the twice larger to their demographic /property share of the island?

The only reason those TCs supporting partition, do so, is because they feel /believe /hope that in this way they will be able to run away with double and triple their fair share! If things were different, they would all have been in love with the RoC, the GCs and the EU, and curse Turkey for continuing its illegal occupation of part of Cyprus. After all, none of those thousands of TCs crossing south every day, for all the known reasons, do seem to have any particular problem with the GCs!

[Oracle]

When I was reading the plight of that pro-recognition individual Expatkiwi/Dean, on the ATCA forum, he actually raised a very good point: What are the ulterior motives of Turkey on the north of Cyprus? Expatkiwi got slammed by his ATCA colleagues because he supported the north as a purely independent country... WITHOUT Turkish control or influence on the north's administration, people, or economy. He pointed out - rightly - that the current Turkish political, economic, and military control over the north has made the north nothing more than a dependency and colony of Turkey, despite the claims of independence (based on the text of the north's 1983 UDI). That leads me to wonder this: what would have happened to the north had that UDI been widely recognized? There are only three options that I can see:

1. Turkey lets the north be completely sovereign by distancing itself from their affairs and allowing the north to make its own decisions.

2. Turkey eventually annexes the north using the Hatay precedent.

3. Turkey uses treaties and other agreements in order to retain a disproportionate influence on the north's administration, thus making it a perpetual puppet state.

The people who support partition should have a careful think as to Turkey's ultimate intentions because Turkey's own interests will always come first with Ankara. And since - unlike Expatkiwi - I don't believe that the north - if it ever was internationally recognized - would be an economically viable entity, then the first option should not be seriously entertained.... unless Turkey's intention is to let the north go its own way and end up bankrupt, and then they come back in to 'pick up the pieces'. Given the strategic value of Cyprus in the eastern Mediterranian and the Near East, Turkey is not likely to just let the north go its own way... You TC's and pro-recognition supporters may not like Greece or the RoCy government very much, but being too trusting on Turkey is not likely to make things any better either...

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi) which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.